Licorice Pizza - Speculation & General Reactions

[Drill]

Nightmare Alley trailer is coming Thursday.

I'm sure this is coming next week. Probably Monday. I think he just wanted to be "last".

[pynchonikon]

I'm leaning towards Monday, too.

[Yes]

Where are you located currently?

Pittsburgh!

[Montclair]

He's stuck in the past.

I personally don't mind him being stuck in the past, in terms of the stories he's telling. He does well there.

My guess is he has very few illusions about his place in the industry. Or about the kinds of budgets he can command or will be able to command going forward. He has almost certainly had these kind of discussions with his producing team. He has also mentioned that he prefers small budgets. I think he said something about how when there's less money at stake, he's left to his own devices (to an extent). I'm also guessing his movies do really well over the long term via DVDs, digital rentals, etc.  I imagine that's one of the factors MGM considered before they gave Licorice Pizza the green light.

In terms of getting future projects made, the actors will help. If he signs Meryl Streep or Adam Driver or Robert Downey Jr. onto his next movie (and none of those names are that farfetched), then any potential budgetary concerns would probably become less...concerning. Most big name actors, I'm guessing, are open to working with PTA. That'll keep him in good stead. Well, that, and the fact his films tend to do well in terms of awards and reviews.

I also think of this Licorice Pizza teaser as a quirky overture, not a part of the main marketing strategy. Perhaps these weeks never factored into MGM's proper marketing plan in the first place, so PTA decided to do something low-key and kinda mysterious in the meantime. Just to gauge the response and get the cinephiles talking.

If he's okay with small budgets, then why doesn't he make movies under $10 million or under $5 million like Soderbergh, Spike Lee, Jarmusch, etc? The last time he did a movie under $15 million was his debut, "Sydney"($3 million). When you factor in the production budget, plus the marketing budget, your film has to double the production budget just to break even, let alone make a profit. I think we all know that his ambition with his storytelling is something he's not willing to ever compromise.

Yes, I agree, top actors are willing to work with him for less than their asking price, which is what happened on Inherent Vice -- another movie where the marketing was atrocious. The trailer was released too late and there wasn't a lot of creative promo after it was released. Also, if he goes the route of sticking to making movies for $30-$40 million he might have to cast some stars pushed by the studio that he's not exactly thrilled about working with, something he's never had to do before. Is that the type of PTA film we want to see?

Somebody compared this to Macbeth, Nightmare Alley and Cyrano not having any trailers or marketing promo yet, as well. BIG differences there. The Coens are more famous and legendary than PTA and they have an enormous movie star in Denzel and also McDormand is coming off a Best Actress win for a movie that won Best Picture. Guillermo Del Toro's last movie won Best Picture and Best Director and stars Bradley Cooper, Cate Blanchett, Rooney Mara and Willem Dafoe, not to mention a much bigger budget for marketing(and today they just unveiled first look photos with a trailer in 2 days). Cyrano has a bigger budget and will have the machine behind it for promotion and has also released official images. No comparison whatsoever.

This quirky overture that's not a part of the main marketing strategy is exactly what's wrong. The main marketing strategy should've gotten rolling with an online presence a while ago. You have to hustle and get creative(like releasing the self cut trailer to YouTube the way he did with TWBB and The Master) and build word of mouth amongst people who aren't movie geeks if you want to make a profit off of a $40 million auteur film starring Cooper Hoffman and Alana Haim, with cameos by a bearded, crazy Bradley Cooper and Sean Penn. There should have been official set photos, first look images and a 30 second teaser released online back in August. There should have been an official trailer online 2 weeks ago. There should have been at least one festival screening to spread word of mouth with(presumably) great reviews. There should have been a couple of on-set interviews(lasting about 5 minutes) with PTA and the cast, uploaded to the Licorice Pizza socials. Something, anything with an online presence!

His last movie had the prestige of being DDL's last performance and it was announced before the trailer came out. That's the type of marketing money can't buy, plus it was a costume drama that ended up getting 6 Oscar nominations, including Best Picture, Best Director and Best Actor. All of those things helped the Box Office performance of Phantom Thread, something that is doubtful to happen with this movie.

I fear for what huge compromises he'll have to make in casting and storytelling resources for his next movies. That's what's so upsetting about him and MGM dropping the ball.

[Yes]

I think this is going to be an even bigger Oscar contender than Phantom Thread. It doesn't seem alienating like The Master or Inherent Vice at all and with 8 nominations and the type of respect and legacy he maintains, a fun movie about 70s hollywood featuring recognizable figures sounds like an easy layup.

But not trying to get ahead of ourselves here

[RudyBlatnoyd]

Fact of the matter is that, no matter how 'professional' the marketing campaign, almost no mid-budget, non-franchise, non-horror movies make good moolah at the box office any more. There are many factors for this, but fundamentally it's simply the case that what mainstream audiences are prepared to risk checking out theatrically has contracted. In spite of the reality of this, MGM obviously thought there were still good reasons for making a movie with PTA, and I'm sure that in the future other studios or streamers like Netflix or Apple will be prepared to take the hit and put up the money for a limited theatrical release in return for a new and exclusive PTA movie on their platform.

If Netflix or Apple will give Scorsese $200 million dollars to make deeply personal projects like Irishman or Killers of the Flower Moon, I'm sure they'll pony up $30-40 mil or whatever for PTA, too, to make whatever he wants.

It's the young, not-yet-established filmmakers who're more likely to get screwed/overlooked by the emerging paradigm.

[Find Your Magali]

I think this is going to be an even bigger Oscar contender than Phantom Thread. It doesn't seem alienating like The Master or Inherent Vice at all and with 8 nominations and the type of respect and legacy he maintains, a fun movie about 70s hollywood featuring recognizable figures sounds like an easy layup.

I like your optimism, but OTOH this movie doesn't have the creds of "DDL's last film" or "classy British period piece"

[Tdog]

He's stuck in the past.

His last movie had the prestige of being DDL's last performance and it was announced before the trailer came out. That's the type of marketing money can't buy, plus it was a costume drama that ended up getting 6 Oscar nominations, including Best Picture, Best Director and Best Actor. All of those things helped the Box Office performance of Phantom Thread, something that is doubtful to happen with this movie.

I think "come see legendary actor Phillip Seymour Hoffmann's kid in his debut role" is also marketing money can't buy!

[wilberfan]

I'm not sure how much potential Oscar weight a (and I'm making an educated guess, here) feel-good, fun, nostalgic, coming-of-age, Hollywood adventure-romance would have?  It's likely to be a"so white" production on top of that, right?   I could see hearts swelling and Coops getting a nomination (or a win)...but Best Picture?  Best Screenplay?  I guess we don't really have enough to judge.   Don't Oscars always tend to lean a little more heavily towards "serious" movies?

[Yes]

I think this is going to be an even bigger Oscar contender than Phantom Thread. It doesn't seem alienating like The Master or Inherent Vice at all and with 8 nominations and the type of respect and legacy he maintains, a fun movie about 70s hollywood featuring recognizable figures sounds like an easy layup.

I like your optimism, but OTOH this movie doesn't have the creds of "DDL's last film" or "classy British period piece"

It's a movie dealing with film industry and even political movement of the time. We've seen Hollywood movies get eaten up all the time... Once upon a Time in Hollywood, Birdman recently

[Rooty Poots]

I'm not sure how much potential Oscar weight a (and I'm making an educated guess, here) feel-good, fun, nostalgic, coming-of-age, Hollywood adventure-romance would have?  It's likely to be a"so white" production on top of that, right?   I could see hearts swelling and Coops getting a nomination (or a win)...but Best Picture?  Best Screenplay?  I guess we don't really have enough to judge.   Don't Oscars always tend to lean a little more heavily towards "serious" movies?

I feel like its chances at Best Picture are definitely slim, but this could be the year he actually wins Best Director—those don't seem to be as tied down to the seriousness of the film, right? I could see him having a good chance at that even if it turns out to be a lower-tier PTA simply due to the fact that so many people think he's due a win.

[Montclair]

One other thing, is it at all irresponsible to be doing this in the middle of a pandemic? The Delta Variant is causing surges everywhere and we've got people thinking about taking trips to NYC to voluntarily sit inside of a theater full of people just to see a damn trailer! If this were pre-Covid outbreak, then theaters getting more attendees to see 35mm prints would be 100% a good thing, but now we're in a situation where the only way to see this trailer is to put our lives at risk. It doesn't sit right with me.

[Alethia]

Well here in NY you gotta show proof of vaccination at all theaters now.

[Yes]

One other thing, is it at all irresponsible to be doing this in the middle of a pandemic? The Delta Variant is causing surges everywhere and we've got people thinking about taking trips to NYC to voluntarily sit inside of a theater full of people just to see a damn trailer! If this were pre-Covid outbreak, then theaters getting more attendees to see 35mm prints would be 100% a good thing, but now we're in a situation where the only way to see this trailer is to put our lives at risk. It doesn't sit right with me.

Most theaters--especially rep theaters--require vaccine or mask mandates

[RudyBlatnoyd]

One other thing, is it at all irresponsible to be doing this in the middle of a pandemic? The Delta Variant is causing surges everywhere and we've got people thinking about taking trips to NYC to voluntarily sit inside of a theater full of people just to see a damn trailer! If this were pre-Covid outbreak, then theaters getting more attendees to see 35mm prints would be 100% a good thing, but now we're in a situation where the only way to see this trailer is to put our lives at risk. It doesn't sit right with me.

Before you were complaining that the ostensible lack of a solid marketing campaign meant that people wouldn't be going out to see this in theatres, and now you're complaining that the prospect of seeing the trailer in 35mm is potentially sending some people out to the theatres... seems a bit contradictory?