From the AP:
"Dec. 2, 2003 | PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) -- Continuing his criticism of rap, Spike Lee told an audience at Brown University that popular music portrays blacks in a negative light.
Speaking to an audience of more than 400 students Monday night, the director of films including "Do the Right Thing" and "Malcolm X" repeated the complaints he's made at colleges and universities over the past year.
"I've always felt you can feel the progress of African Americans by listening to their music," Lee said. "Some of this 'gangsta rap' stuff, it's not doing anybody any good. This stuff is really dangerous."
He said some black adults equate education, good grammar and good grades with "being white," but when he was growing up, those things were seen as positive goals.
"You were not ridiculed if you spoke correct English," he said. Lee urged the audience to make their voices heard by not buying or viewing anything that portrays blacks in a negative way.
"We buy all this stuff, not even thinking about what's behind it ... Think about the power that we have," the 46-year-old said. "We can't just sit back and think it doesn't affect us. We have to do something about it. We have to be more choosy about the types of stuff we support."
Lee also urged students to follow their dreams after graduation, "or you'll be sitting around, fat, divorced and miserable because you took some job, or you took some path that you didn't really want to do."
I agree.
Spike Lee hit it right on the dot. gangsta rap is terrible and only make the people making it look bad so everyone else but the people who listen to it. Hip hop is a great form of music and should definetely stay around, but there is a difference between saying something intelligent and saying something for shock value to sale records.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
It's a fact that white people buy the majority of rap albums and hip hop entertainment.
Thus perpetuating the "ignorant black people" stereotype.
I agree with Lee. The only thing sadder than some ghetto criminal making millions off this shit noise is the massive number of middle class white teens embracing it.
Quote from: SoNowThenThe only thing sadder than some ghetto criminal making millions off this shit noise is the massive number of middle class white teens embracing it.
."yo's whats you bees talkingz boutz?..that muzick speaks ta me. When my moms don't be washing my clothez i spins dat new 50 cent to rids da pain away. Or if my popz ain'ts lett'n me pimp the navigator i tell hims ta fucks off and i runns to mize room and playz da DMX and seeks sanctuary through hiz lyrics..So don't be hate'nn..alright ??????"
-average middle class white teenager....
Quote from: NEON MERCURYQuote from: SoNowThenThe only thing sadder than some ghetto criminal making millions off this shit noise is the massive number of middle class white teens embracing it.
."yo's whats you bees talkingz boutz?..that muzick speaks ta me. When my moms don't be washing my clothez i spins dat new 50 cent to rids da pain away. Or if my popz ain'ts lett'n me pimp the navigator i tell hims ta fucks off and i runns to mize room and playz da DMX and seeks sanctuary through hiz lyrics..So don't be hate'nn..alright ??????"
-average middle class white teenager....
Your best post
Quote from: NEON MERCURYQuote from: SoNowThenThe only thing sadder than some ghetto criminal making millions off this shit noise is the massive number of middle class white teens embracing it.
."yo's whats you bees talkingz boutz?..that muzick speaks ta me. When my moms don't be washing my clothez i spins dat new 50 cent to rids da pain away. Or if my popz ain'ts lett'n me pimp the navigator i tell hims ta fucks off and i runns to mize room and playz da DMX and seeks sanctuary through hiz lyrics..So don't be hate'nn..alright ??????"
-average middle class white teenager....
god, i know so many kids like this, i have to deal with them EVERY FUCKING DAY.
I agree. Why do we all agree on this?
The 7th Seal opens.
All Xixax members agree.
Funnily enough, of all things, on Spike Lee's views on rap. :)
I think we can all agree on this because what Lee is saying rings so true and makes such complete sense. My take on what he's saying is that gangsta culture imagines itself as empowering, a threat to the dominant order; Lee knows that an educated, articulate, accomplished, financially independent, culturally literate African-American (such as himself) better matches that description. Gangsta rap might be good for venting, but it's education and work that get you places, and gangsta rap- to whatever extent it might be an honest depiction- isn't about getting those things to the people who've been deprived of them.
I dont agree with Spike at all on this one.
Gangsta rap may not be doing any good in your opinion, but it is explaining through an artform what happens and it explains how certain people live their lives. If for example Gangsta rap, didn't exist, then the only examples of this culture you would hear about, would be on the nightly news. That would be a total shame.
Just because you don't enjoy the music, or don't agree with it, dosen't mean it shouldn't be around. It's simply a culture explaining their unique situations through the only media outlet that is available to them. Music.
chris
hmm, put me down for agree. (with spike)
Quotehmm, put me down for agree. (with spike)
Do you care to put anything down of why you agree with Spike? ha....
chris
Quote from: Thecowgoooesmoooit is explaining through an artform what happens and it explains how certain people live their lives . . . Just because you don't enjoy the music, or don't agree with it, dosen't mean it shouldn't be around.
And what is it accomplishing socially?
Now that it has established and commercialized certain cultural ideas, where else can it go but away from truth?
QuoteAnd what is it accomplishing socially?
It dosen't have to accomplish anything socially. In fact, most music dosen't accomplish anything socially.
But in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I think it does accomplish one thing. It makes people aware of what is going on in certain places in America, and I think that is very important.
QuoteNow that it has established and commercialized certain cultural ideas, where else can it go but away from truth?
What in the hell does this mean? Where else can it go but away from truth? explain......
chris
Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooIt makes people aware of what is going on in certain places in America, and I think that is very important.
But wouldn't spreading awareness be considered a social accomplishment? And what does that sort of awareness actually result in for the people whose lives are supposedly being conveyed in the music? Doesn't it just result in more negative stereotypes and let the listeners- whoever they might me, though the majority are white and middle-class- off the hook for actually thinking about what might be done?
Believe me, I'm not for censoring anything. But like Spike Lee, I do think the value of gangsta rap is very dubious. I think what Mr. Lee is saying is that for all gangsta rap's braggadocio, it's finally an impotent expression, and may even further the unfair and shameful political and economic impotence of the community it comes from.
QuoteBut wouldn't spreading awareness be considered a social accomplishment?
Yea, see earlier post.
QuoteAnd what does that sort of awareness actually result in for the people whose lives are supposedly being conveyed in the music?
Well, if your talking about the people who are being portrayed in the gangsta rap music, well it gives them something to relate to. And if you were in that minority, it might be important to you.
QuoteDoesn't it just result in more negative stereotypes and let the listeners- whoever they might me, though the majority are white and middle-class- off the hook for actually thinking about what might be done?
Negative stereotypes or not, the gangsta rap is just a reflection or commentary of real life. Nothing more, then a real life commentary through beats and lyrics, thats it.
If you took that away, you would just be taking away a voice from a minority community.
chris
Quote from: Thecowgoooesmooo
Negative stereotypes or not, the gangsta rap is just a reflection or commentary of real life.
chris
Isn't stereotype and real life contradictory?
Quote from: ThecowgoooesmooDo you care to put anything down of why you agree with Spike? ha....
um, no, i don't feel like justifying my opinion to u.
why don't u ask everyone else? oh that's right, cos u wanna start a fight with me in particular. ha.
thanks for asking, anyway. maybe another time.
QuoteThecowgoooesmooo wrote:
Negative stereotypes or not, the gangsta rap is just a reflection or commentary of real life.
chris
Isn't stereotype and real life contradictory?
No... Because a stereotype is an oversimplified version or image. But real life is not oversimplified or formulaic it is just REAL, real life.
QuoteThecowgoooesmoo wrote:
Do you care to put anything down of why you agree with Spike? ha....
um, no, i don't feel like justifying my opinion to u.
why don't u ask everyone else? oh that's right, cos u wanna start a fight with me in particular. ha.
thanks for asking, anyway. maybe another time.
No I don't want to start a particular fight with you. It was just a simple question, with a simple "Ha..." at the end. Now try to stay on topic, try to add something of substance.
chris
Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooIt makes people aware of what is going on in certain places in America
Like what? I can't believe that gangsta rap, as commercialized and perverted as it is, can convey any real truth.
I think this says it all:
Quote from: godardianit's finally an impotent expression, and may even further the unfair and shameful political and economic impotence of the community it comes from.
Quote from: SHAFTRQuote from: Thecowgoooesmooo
Negative stereotypes or not, the gangsta rap is just a reflection or commentary of real life.
Isn't stereotype and real life contradictory?
QuoteIsn't stereotype and real life contradictory?
Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooNo... Because a stereotype is an oversimplified version or image. But real life is not oversimplified or formulaic it is just REAL, real life.
Exactly. You just spelled out how stereotypes and real life are contradictory. If gangsta rap is a stereotype, how can it be real life?
I'm with the majority in this case, but I wouldn't call most current mainstream rap 'gangsta rap.'
I guess gangsta rap first hit the mainstream with NWA, and then with Tupac. I'll argue for the validity of both of them, especially Tupac, because they weren't (at least initially) intent on glorifying the gangsta lifestyle. They were making a statement about life on the streets, etc.
What we have now are these post-gangsta 'artists' who go for the best of both worlds (see the title of 50 Cent's album) They talk about how hardcore they are every now and then, but they also revel in their luxuries. Every other line is about their money, their cars, and all the women they get, but "yo, get this, they're still true to the streets." That's a bunch of bullshit, and I'm sure they know it. Most of them are also shockingly untalented. At least Jay Z, who is talented, doesn't try to pretend anymore.
I'd be curious to hear Spike Lee's thoughts on some of the truly talented hip hop artists that are out there at the moment.
Quote from: GhostboyI'd be curious to hear Spike Lee's thoughts on some of the truly talented hip hop artists that are out there at the moment.
judging from his prior use of Public Enemy, i'd say he's a fan.
Quote from: Ghostboy(see the title of 50 Cent's album)
I heard something on NPR once about how 50 Cent was first being sold as an R&B singer. It was hilarious.
QuoteQuote:
Isn't stereotype and real life contradictory?
Thecowgoooesmooo wrote:
No... Because a stereotype is an oversimplified version or image. But real life is not oversimplified or formulaic it is just REAL, real life.
Exactly. You just spelled out how stereotypes and real life are contradictory. If gangsta rap is a stereotype, how can it be real life?
Blackman... I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say, and I don't really understand a few of these last statements dealing with the word contradictory...
Ok, Im not saying Gangsta rap is a stereotype.... because the rappers that are commenting on the way they grew up, or how the project systems work is real life. It is real.
Like I said before...
QuoteBut real life is not oversimplified or formulaic it is just REAL, real life.
I don't understand how it could be a stereotype... If stereotype is an oversimplified version of something, then how could gangsta rap be a stereotype? I just don't get it...
So my questions for you to answer are...
1) How is gangsta rap a stereotype?
2) Also, could you explain to me what your talking about how real life and stereotypes contradict themselves, and don't use the word contradictory, its becoming repetitive and I think I will maybe understand what in the hell your trying to say if you explain it differently...
Also, can anybody else understand or explain to me what he is trying to tell me?
QuoteThecowgoooesmooo wrote:
It makes people aware of what is going on in certain places in America
Like what? I can't believe that gangsta rap, as commercialized and perverted as it is, can convey any real truth.
Just to make sure we are on the same page... Im curious.. What gangsta rappers are you talking about?... Because currently, gangsta rap is not commercialized and popular in the RAP music scene... Just name a few artists, that come to mind, when you are thinking of this term "gangsta rap"....
chris
Some rap does send a bad image but it's up to the PARENTS to control what their children listen to up to a certain age, which they feel appropriate.
The biggest point being missed here is that the majority of rap consumers are white males in their teens....not African Americans.
So called gangsta rap is an expression of their life experiences. I think 2Pac's is labeled as gangsta but his music has some very important messages. He was and still is the best rap artisit ever and he had a message to get across before he died. If you ask me what the message is, you haven't heard most of his music.
yeah, what is the definition of gangsta rap?
i hope it doesn't include G-Funk, because my favorite period of rap was 94/95 when Dr Dre, Snoop & Warren G made some really great albums
i'm also guessing Outkast doesn't fit in with this
this is pretty much the extent of rap i like/have liked (well, i did like MC Hammer and VAnilla Ice back in the day)......but i can't stand rap that only focuses on wealth, women & killing
i'm guessing this is what Spike is talking about......the redundant videos with nice cars, girls in bikinis, etc
Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooI dont agree with Spike at all on this one.
Gangsta rap may not be doing any good in your opinion, but it is explaining through an artform what happens and it explains how certain people live their lives. If for example Gangsta rap, didn't exist, then the only examples of this culture you would hear about, would be on the nightly news. That would be a total shame.
Just because you don't enjoy the music, or don't agree with it, dosen't mean it shouldn't be around. It's simply a culture explaining their unique situations through the only media outlet that is available to them. Music.
chris
You bastard. You ruined the trend.
By the way, I agree, as well.
I like rap music but only have about 15 rap CDs. I have a very wide range of musical tastes except for most country. It's funny how 2Pac was always used as a status symbol for other artists. He was the Elvis of rap, but definitley not the originator. I have seen 4 of the 5 documentaries and most of them are good. Tupac Shakur Before I Awake and Thug Angel are good if you like him. If there ever was a hard working rap artist, he was it. He recorded so much music in such a short time that his posthumous released albums far outweigh his released work while alive. He knew he was going to die and wrote songs about it. Even though his time was short, he succeeded at what he strived for.
what few others I have
Outkast
DMX
Jah Rule
Dr. Dre
Snoop Dog
Public Enemy
Quote from: freakerdudeTupac Shakur . . . If there ever was a hard working rap artist, he was it. He recorded so much music in such a short time that his posthumous released albums far outweigh his released work while alive.
What makes you so sure that he's dead?
:shock:
Rap I enjoy
A Tribe Called Quest
Q Tip
Talib Kweli
Outkast
interpret as you wish.
59 factors related to his death (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/9583/death.htm)
on a side note, he also wrote some meaningful poetry IMO.
hip hop i rocked this year..
freddie foxxx/bumpy knuckles (a TRUE gangsta, who spits real knowledge)
outkast
kool keith (in many forms)
bubba sparxxx
blackalicious
Roots Manuva
MF Doom (including as Viktor Vaughn)
Pep Love, Del, the whole hiero crew
supremeEX
mos def
do u count DJ shadow?
gangstarr
..
and that's not counting the many decent tracks that make the charts which i enjoyed, such as Nas, Jay-Z, and Missy.. and the classics which never leave the rotation (PE- nation of millions, etc). even so, my hip hop playlist has diminished considerably in the past year. point is, there's good hip hop (refer to list), and there's shit music.. which is what spike was talking about, and is increasingly being sold as real hip hop to the suburban masses. he's right that it's corrupting what used to be a positive thing for real heads.
Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanQuote from: freakerdudeTupac Shakur . . . If there ever was a hard working rap artist, he was it. He recorded so much music in such a short time that his posthumous released albums far outweigh his released work while alive.
What makes you so sure that he's dead?
:shock:
That he releases a new album each year doesn't mean he's alive.
Quote from: RaviQuote from: Jeremy BlackmanQuote from: freakerdudeTupac Shakur . . . If there ever was a hard working rap artist, he was it. He recorded so much music in such a short time that his posthumous released albums far outweigh his released work while alive.
What makes you so sure that he's dead?
:shock:
That he releases a new album each year doesn't mean he's alive.
I saw him driving once
Quote from: Pdo u count DJ shadow?
I really like DJ shadow :yabbse-thumbup: ...
... so probably not