QUEER CINEMA

[godardian]

im not opposed or offended, but what do we call other films then? straight cinema?

Yes, the early-nineties wave of gay films (led by Haynes and Mary Harron and films like Swoon) were dubbed "the new queer cinema."

The word queer is great; it's convenient, it sums it up, and it covers everyone it needs to cover, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered and intersex persons. I take it to mean "unconventional sexuality," and you can interpret that as conservatively or as radically as you want. I don't take offense at the word at all. It's been rather officialy recognized in the annals of film, Gold Trumpet; we're certainly not the first to use the term "queer cinema," here. It's a word generally used in literate circles as something very well-intentioned; it's not a word like "faggot" or "dyke," which tend to have more negative connotations (still, that's all up to the tone, too; words are semiotic things, and they only exist in context).

I'm sorry to see that there's already been some stupid shit (well-intentioned or not) directed your way here, pookie. And I can't believe someone implied we're just going to be here talking to ourselves; thanks to the ever-straight-but-not-narrow (I assume) children for disproving that.

Anyways, we're going to talk about movies here, and what they mean to us, just like everywhere else on the board. Definition of what "queer cinema" is is up to whoever's posting. Feel free to give your queer interpetation of a straight film or to express your straight appreciation of a queer film. I'll finally have someplace to spill my guts when I finally see My Beautiful Launderette.

Pookie, I also loved Jodhi May in Sister; she was also in The House of Mirth with Gillian Anderson, which was adapted and directed by gay English director Terence Davies (The Neon Bible, The Long Day Closes- some pretty remarkable films).

Okay, more later... Everyone feel free to post and get things rolling.

[pookiethecat]

queer cinema: the search for home, the hegemonic norms of heterosexuality, and existing outside that paradigm. Anyway: it's a great movie...

that's a perfect way of describing queer cinema and what the vast majority of movies within the genre are about.  

there is a certain amount of queer films, i've noticed, that rather than try to tackle those issues, simply rift on classic "straight" movie plots by giving the central couple or event or theme a homosexual twist.  these movies, i've noted, usually suck.  observe: better than chocolate, it's in the water.  any movie that proclaims to be classic or traditional "but with a gay little twist" will usually be petty.  the directors, feeling the weight of so many years of tragic, heavy queer cinema, seemingly tries too hard  to be lightweight and fun that their movies end up mild and dull...also observe: but i'm a cheerleader.  model after a traditional john waters movie, add some homosexuality and the product is a fairly inept comedy.  

the one attempt at doing this quite well has been todd hayne's far from heaven, a remake on something classic and familiar but with a gay sensibility.  well-done and with something to say.

but what i find quite interesting now is that many people are calling x-men 2 queer cinema because of the allegory between of being a mutant and homosexuality.  but the question is: is it queer cinema if it's not even intended to be?

i'm pretty ignorant about all this considering my youthful age and still lack of experience.  so feel free to correct or modify what i've said

[godardian]

Okay, just one more post to tie up a few things.

Gold Trumpet, I understand your concerns, but it's been years since I've heard the word "queer" used in a derogatory way. It's a word that's been embraced to the extent that many prominent universities have queer studies departments (how tenable those curriculums tend to be is another story; point is, the word doesn't bother anyone who cares).

Children, it's very cool that you're studying My Own Private Idaho. The campfire scene made me cry when I first saw that film when I was 15. I was born and raised in Portland (where Gus van Sant is from and where Idaho is set), so there was that whole local connection, too. It's a wonderful film. Still, To Die For is my favorite van Sant film.

BonBon85 and I were discussing in another topic the badness of some gay romantic comedies (I use Trick and Jeffrey as examples), how having same-sex couples acting out these dumb meet-cute scenarios doesn't really freshen up the cliches of that genre, and in fact can make them seem that much more obvious. I wonder if she's lurking around anywhere...?

I'd be up for discussing Laurel Canyon, too.

Todd Haynes is by far my favorite queer filmmaker- I've gone so far as to call Safe, in addition to being one of my favorite movies of all time, my favorite queer film, and disregarding people's befuddled reactions- because he creates stories that implicate everyone; he's remarkably un-ghettoized. His films are about (not just gay) identity and cultural currency, which is a problem every human being faces, though it particularly affects sexual minorities and other people whose identity constructs don't match the dominant templates. His films fit just as well in many other topics here as they do in this one, and I think that's ideal. We could talk lots about Todd Haynes here, and I wouldn't complain. Trivia: It's strange that he moved to Portland in '99, and then Gus van Sant moved back there from NYC (where he moved in the late '90s). My old hometown is now where two of the most respected and famous queer filmmakers live.

Seattle, on the other hand, has nothin'. [/i]

[godardian]

queer cinema: the search for home, the hegemonic norms of heterosexuality, and existing outside that paradigm. Anyway: it's a great movie...

that's a perfect way of describing queer cinema and what the vast majority of movies within the genre are about.  

there is a certain amount of queer films, i've noticed, that rather than try to tackle those issues, just rift on classic "straight" movie plots by giving the central couple or event or whatever a homosexual twist.  these movies, i've noted, usually suck.  observe: better than chocolate, it's in the water.  any movie that proclaims to be classic or traditional "but with a gay little twist" will invariably be bad.  they're trying so hard not to be profound that they just end up mild and dull...also observe: but i'm a cheerleader.  model after a traditional john waters movie, add some homosexuality in for good measure and the product is a terribly sucky movie.

what i find interesting is that many people are calling x-men 2 queer cinema because of the allegory between of being a mutant and homosexuality.  but the question is: is it queer cinema if it's not even intended to be?

To that last question: It really can be. But sometimes it's too much of a stretch. I think that's an okay allegory, I think, but it doesn't excite me.

I agree with your list of sucky movies, Pookie. I really didn't like Better than Chocolate.

I overlapped this idea and others in my last post. I think we're pretty like-minded in not being at all timid about criticizing queer films. They often need it.

If you liked American Psycho, I predict you'll be very into I Shot Andy Warhol. I think Mary Harron is a very gifted filmmaker. She's not a queer filmmaker per se, but neofeminist filmmakers and queer filmmakers are often on the same page. It can really be almost anything that gives the lie to so-called "traditional values" and explores alternative modes and sensibilities.

[MacGuffin]

I don't really know what entails "Queer Cinema", so I'm just going to list films I feel are positive portrayals:

"Crying Game" - Love this film; it one of my favorites of all time. I can watch over and over.

"High Art" - Made me fall in love with Particia Clarkson as an actress. And the rest of the cast is just as great.

"Before Night Falls" - Javier Bardem should have received the Oscar for this film. He and the film are wonderful.

"Bound" - More film-noir than a 'gay' film, and the hype of the sex scene clouds the rest of the film when this title is mentioned, but I feel this film has a very smart characters; in no way dumbing them down.

"Longtime Companion" - Haven't seen it in a long while, but I still remember the impact when I first saw it. The 'letting go' scene is so powerful.

"Philadelphia" - could have said much more, but it is a giant step for a studio to tackle a gay themes. And you can't ignore Hanks's performance, especially the scene of him crying in the street after being denied by Denzel's character and the opera scene.

Forgetting some, but all for now.

[Cecil]

I don't really know what entails "Queer Cinema"

yeah, does it mean "pro queer movies" or "movies made by queers?"

[pookiethecat]

haha.  trick was awful  every time tori spelling appeared onscreen, i wanted to throw something at the tv.  

billy's hollywood onscreen kiss was another terrible movie.  though sean hayes made it somewhat bearable.  

macguffin- your list has a lot of good films.  high art in particular showed lots of promise in its first hour or so.  but i didn't really care for the ending.  the tragedy seemed forced...i found myself asking, why couldn't they just live happily ever after, dammit?!  in fact, that seems to be a problem with queer cinema.  too much frivolousness or too much tragedy.  so where is the middle ground?!  

..something also that might be good to address is that there's a double standard...bc, if any of the movies mentioned above depicted straight charaters, no one would even question their ineptitude...that's why the queer film community needs people like us to call them on it and not settle for a less than stellar product.

[pookiethecat]

by the way, bound is one of the best movies.  it gave me considerable faith in the wachowski brothers.  imagine it: little f/x.  about 2 sets total.  3 major characters. and you have terribly suspenseful, riveting drama .  not to get into a matrix debate, but i hope they can bring that level of taut intensity back with the third matrix installment.

[godardian]

"Philadelphia" - could have said much more, but it is a giant step for a studio to tackle a gay themes. And you can't ignore Hanks's performance, especially the scene of him crying in the street after being denied by Denzel's character and the opera scene.

Forgetting some, but all for now.

Good list. I liked Philadelphia a lot more than I thought I would. Sure, it doesn't capture all the subtlety and complexity, but it's also not nearly as simplistic as it could've been.

I do remember not particularly caring for Longtime Companion, though. I'd have to revisit it.

Also really liked The Crying Game. Neil Jordan has made quite a few films I've liked a lot.  

I've also been very pleasantly surprised by Merchant-Ivory films (in case not everyone is aware, Ismael Merchant and James Ivory have been a couple for a very long time, in addition to making films together). Not just the ones with gay characters, like A Soldier's Daughter Never Cries or Maurice- both of which I found to be very nicely done- but quite a few of them. I guess I count gay filmmakers, whether or not their films are explicitly about being gay or have gay themes.

I mean, George Cukor and Vincente Minnelli were gay, and it had little to do with their films (many of which were very good), but that's equally liberating, to me: That they were able to make films of great sensitivity and technical proficiency and storytelling ability. They may have been kept from being open about their sexuality, but they weren't creatively limited by it. They managed to achieve.

[pookiethecat]

A Soldier's Daughter Never Cries[/i] or Maurice- both of which I found to be very nicely done- but quite a few of them. I guess I count gay filmmakers, whether or not their films are explicitly about being gay or have gay themes.
.

The secondary yet highly enhancing nature of the gay character in Soldier's Daughter Never Cries reminds me of the sister in Election.  And though he wasn't explicitly gay in Solder's Daughter, his involvement, as an outsider and sexually confused young man (with a beautiful soprano, if you recall) really touched the gay part of me.  Same with the sister in Election.  Her treatment was sensitive yet unsentimental... not to mention funny as hell...I'd rather gay characters be well-portrayed in a supporting context than poorly-portrayed in a leading-protoganist context.

[godardian]

I don't really know what entails "Queer Cinema"

yeah, does it mean "pro queer movies" or "movies made by queers?"

Both. Let's try to be as inclusive as possible.

[MacGuffin]

"Adventures Of Priscilla: Queen Of The Desert" - characters you laugh with, not at. Although it is pretty funny to look back and see Agent Smith and Leonard Shelby in drag.

"Heavenly Creatures" - just a damn fine piece of filmmaking.

"And The Band Played On" - great TV movie about the early days surrounding the mystery of AIDS.

"Gods And Monsters" - Why Ian McKellen is one of our finest actors working today.

[godardian]

I'd rather gay characters be well-portrayed in a supporting context than poorly-portrayed in a leading-protoganist context.

Totally. Look at Boogie Nights and Magnolia; the gay characters are interesting, and they're not just poster children for gay rights, or something. It took a straight filmmaker to give us the perfect antidote to the insipid, narcissistic gay guys of Trick, etc. Those are two of my favorites. [/i]

[Cecil]

anyone a fan of francois ozon?

im going to watch sitcom ina  few minutes

[pookiethecat]

"Heavenly Creatures" - just a damn fine piece of filmmaking.

Word.