A movie starring Jet Li, has anyone seen it? It reminds me of "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon".
Looks like the same style, haven't seen it yet. I really want to though
I saw the trailer and went mad!!! Damn this movie looks cool! Like a chinesh Matrix! :-D Gotta see this.....Gotta see this!
Remember that other movie, with Dustin Hoffman, where he saved those dudes on the plabe but they though it was all Andy Gracia, but it wasn't?
Man, that movie was cool...
Hahaha, I do remember that Hero!
the movie seems to be huge and i think it is the most expensive movie ever to come out of china.
from the trailer it looked to be pretty visuelly impressive but it also looked a little bit cheesy i think but not cheesy enough to be kitchy. i wanna see it and the critics claim it to be quite good.
hooray for kung-fu.
A lot of the action sequences remind me of A Man Called Hero which had large scale, yet still kind of cheap looking special effects.
just saw the damn ting, and i walked out with mixed feelings. beautiful. very very impressive in movements and colour and all that shit, in fact it was much like crouching tiger taken to another level. the story was very simple and it was involving few caracters but it was told in a very weird way(and got to a plan where it felt too superficial) wich did NOT work with me. the story did not get me at all.
but you should go see it just for the fight scenes. theire excelent.
Is it only in select cities or something? When's it come out on DVD?
Quote from: tremoloslothIs it only in select cities or something? When's it come out on DVD?
It's already out on region 1
:( I don't know what that means
i think i read somewhere that the movie will hit the theaters in the u.s. first around november or something. something.
I know a few people who have seen it too, and had the same opinon: it's worth seeing, but too dramatically faulty to rank with 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.'
Quote from: mogwaiQuote from: Sigur RósIt's already out on region 1
No, it isn't, it's only available on region 3.
Oh, you are rite! sorry! :(
I just saw it at a shop in Denmark and presumed that it was region 1.
In an interview with Fangoria magazine, Tarantino revealed, that he battled with Miramax (who holds the rights to Zhang Yimou's HERO) to finally release the film (which is almost 2 years old now, and hasn't gotten ANY attention from Miramax, who already had edited the film down to 95 minutes - a version that was also shown all over Europe), and to top it, he convinced Miramax to release it in its original version, which is over 120 minutes long.
This is what Tarantino said (the entire interview will be in the April 16 Issue of Fangoria Magazine)
"And I am very proud to do that," Tarantino tells Fangoria Magazine. "I had to fight for it with Miramax. I think they lost faith in it and everything. And I thought that HERO was an absolute masterpiece, so I fought with them not to cut it. Not to bring it down, but to keep it the same length as when I saw it. And finally they agreed if I would present it. So I got in touch with Zhang Yimou and he was cool with that. Yeah, he was as happy as a clam. So that's what I am doing—it's pretty much what I did for IRON MONKEY."
The Film will released in New York and LA this June.
Quote from: MacGuffinThe Film will released in New York and LA this June.
If it's still there in July, I'm going to see it! :-D
I'm going to see it as soon as possible and try to look for that region 3 DVD of it online
I have a Region 0 DVD of it that I have yet to watch in its entirety. I don't even know what cut it is. Does anyone know?
I have this feeling it will not do too well in the US, as it will almost certainly be considered a "Crouching Tiger" ripoff (particularly the Tan Dun score and Zhang Ziyi). But Christopher Doyle's cinematography is perfection as always.
yep, all available films are the 95-min version. there has yet been an 120 version cut available.
I really really dug most of everything about it, except for the script, which was kinda hoaky. We'll argue over it when the film comes out for everyone to see.
Quote from: peteyep, all available films are the 95-min version. there has yet been an 120 version cut available.
I really really dug most of everything about it, except for the script, which was kinda hoaky. We'll argue over it when the film comes out for everyone to see.
Thanks for the info. BTW, do you know where I can get an English translation of the opening crawl? I'm curious to know what it says.
Trailer here. (http://media.filmweb.no/trailere/smn/SMN20020821/36.mov)
the scroll in the beginning (I don't have the DVD with me so I'm translating from memory) roughly says that in the post spring-autumn/ warring states era of China, the countries constantly fought one another, Qin, being the greatest kingdom of the seven, used its divide-and-conquer strategy to reign China. There had been many documented attempts to assassinate Qin She-Huan, China's first emperor, this is one of the stories...
the words in the end are a little more important, but I guess it's kinda dangerous translating it here.
International Trailer #1 here. (http://www.hero-movie.jp/trailers/hero_l.mov)
International Trailer #2 here. (http://www.hero-movie.jp/trailers/hero_480.mov)
Miramax Preps 'Hero,' Jet Li Unoptimistic
Kung Fu Cinema reports that a trailer for Hero will be playing before Kill Bill: Vol. 2 screenings in North America. This is according to an Asian consultant for Miramax, the company distributing both films. Apparently, director Zhang Yimou and several of the film's stars will do a ten-city promotional tour this summer. Although not organized by Miramax, Yimou is also scheduled to appear in Boston at the end of May to receive an honorary award from The Coolidge Corner Theater for his efforts on Hero.
There is also reported interest by Miramax in picking up Chen Kaige's first martial arts film, The Promise, now in production and Zhang Yimou's second wuxia film, Shi Mian Mai Fu, now in post-production. However, Shi Mian Mai Fu producer Zhang Weiping has already expressed a reluctance to work with Miramax again.
In a recent press conference to promote a sports drink, Jet Li appeared uncertain about either the US release date for Hero or its reported title change to Jet Li's Hero. He was unoptimistic about its box office potential in the States and acknowledged that most Chinese fans outside of China would have purchased an import copy of the film on DVD already.
Kill Bill director Quentin Tarantino recently expressed interest in self-promoting Hero for Miramax in order to ensure that it gets a wider release in the US. Miramax has previously stalled its release several times after originally purchasing rights to the film two years ago. It's now tentatively scheduled for release on August 20th.
yeah miramax really did Hero and Shaolin Soccer in. I'm actually interviewing to be one of Zhang Yimou's translators when he comes to Boston!
EDIT: just found out, I WILL translating!
I saw Hero in China in 2002 (at a Chinese movie theater, which is just cool). Um, the movie is... it has it's ups and downs. I wouldn't say it's anywhere near great, and it's sorta just tepidly good. There are some nice fighting sequences. The visual effects are laughably bad--especially evident on the large screen. They looked like pre-viz stuff--and this was definitely the final, full-length version.
The cinematography was good, although at times it (in combination with the action taking place) became that sort of "too-artsy" for the sake of being artsy thing. It was also really awkwardly paced. The whole thing just felt like it wasn't finished--but I'm SURE it was because I saw it during its Chinese official theatrical run. And I know it wasn't the 90-something-minute version.
So I could believe that this movie was edited for pacing reasons... however, what I'm hearing is that it was just edited to be shorter, and not approved by the director. But I would say that this was a so-so movie. I'm right in the middle with this one.
(Another thing: I am half-Chinese, so there really wouldn't be any cultural miscommunication that would affect my opinion of the film)
it WAS the 90-minute version shown at the Chinese theater though. So far, there's only been the 90-minute version available.
I didn't think the CG was too bad. I thought the script was badly written--the guy had too many things to prove and too many things he wanted to breakthrough, but I don't think he knows the form well enough to revise it.
The script was weak (e.g. STAB "Ugh, you were quicker than me...")
REALLY? Wow, I thought it was Miramax that was trying to cut the film. How... how come it would be edited in China? So technically then, the 90 minute is the Theatrical Cut, and the longer one is just the director's cut.
Cuz jeez, the movie felt long enough.
I think Zhang Yimou wanted to go for some type of simple poetry--oh well, those who read the English subtitles will probably like it better (since "how swift thy sword" sounded much better than "what a fast sword!"). I'm sorry you hated it so much. I thought it was really entertaining, as long as I didn't let the plot twists bother me--I found a lot of them inconsistent, and maybe half an hour more of character development could have saved them. Oh well. I don't wanna defend a movie that I didn't think was that good in the first place.
Oh I didn't hate it at all. I feel about the same way that you do. It, as you said, "wasn't that good," but I wouldn't say that it's bad either.
But see now I think Crouching Tiger is great.
I don't think a half hour of character development would've saved anything, though. I thought the movie just should have been a bit tighter, cuz it meandered a lot.
The basic idea of the movie is neat, showing the event in three or so completely ways with different colors (it's been done, but still, it's neat). But I just didn't feel that it worked. It was still an okay movie, though.
i saw the trailer at Kill Bill and it looks pretty good.
I think I've announced this somewhere else on the board, but lemme reiterate. Zhang Yimou is coming to Boston at the end of May to show the "festival version" (120-min cut?) of Hero, and I GOT TO BE TRANSLATING FOR HIM!
Finally online,
Trailer (http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2004/DEFGH/Hero/trailer-page.html)
Quote from: El DuderinoFinally online,
:yabbse-huh: What are all those on page 2?
oh jesus, my bad. i seriously just read it. i'm blind.
Quote from: El Duderinooh jesus, my bad. i seriously just read it. i'm blind.
:brickwall:
Quote from: CinephileQuote from: El Duderinooh jesus, my bad. i seriously just read it. i'm blind.
:brickwall:
well put
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.themoviebox.net%2Fmovies%2F2004%2FDEFGH%2FHero%2Fimages%2Fmain-page.jpg&hash=8c4a11cffedbb45d67342b13746d3399f28259d4)
i really dig that still
just came back from its US premiere. I was one of the volunteer translators so I got to hang out with Zhang Yimou very very briefly. He has beautiful eyes (for cinematography) and I told him that, he was kinda cold though. I had a funny picture (I think) with him and that was about it.
When I saw it with an Asian audience way back then, people were laughing at various parts of the film when it was trying "too hard." Tonight the American audience laughs at the film too, at various parts (people uniformly loved it in the end) but at different parts. Asian people laughed more at the cornball dialogues, while Americans still have hard time taking in the over-the-top action.
here's a pic:
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UgDbAo8ap3B5kAM8BSMXk7k!!Y88VBlQ8Y76qJHRbwNjqeztvf8Z6iNva*Gk13EFRWpyxYlqXbLxegCl5TdGZ36Fnajk4ZCAYIE03PxhGbV*xHADX!C2hRFmxywxvfTY/zhang%20yimou.jpg?dc=4675474310184048334
Finally watched the whole thing the other night. There's no way it's going to do well in the US. Most of the people I know who saw Crouching Tiger, even the ones who enjoyed it, were baffled/annoyed by the flashback in the desert. I have little to no faith that American audiences will "get" all the flashback stuff in this. Apart from that, the motivations behind characters' actions are particularly not in line with Western thinking. A lot of people will find certain decisions made by the characters confusing or maybe even stupid.
I'm also a little disappointed to see that the script itself isn't so great; I was hoping it was just the subtitles. But the cinematography is pants-wetting.
Overall, I have to agree with matt35mm and pete on this one; I liked it (nothing with Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung could possibly be unwatchable) but it's nothing quite to crow about. I'll see it in a theatre when it comes out, but mainly to see how the audience reacts.
I saw it this morning, and I guess all the negative buzz had my anticipation down to a level that allowed me to really enjoy it. It's certainly not a masterpiece like Crouching Tiger, but it's definitely worth seeing. I liked the Rashomon-style construction of the script, and Chris Doyle further proves that he is the greatest cinematographer working today. The color palletes are just breathtaking.
Also, I thought the CGI was fine. There's not even that much to begin with. A few shots were a little rough, but it never took me out of the scene. The first arrow attack was amazing, and I loved the whole calligraphy element of it.
So yeah, an imperfect script, maybe one or two too many fight scenes, an underused Donnie Yen, but otherwise this was, for me, a great time at the movies.
Li Fights Against Formulaic Action Films
Jet Li wants to touch your soul before he kicks your butt. The Hong Kong action star says too many martial-arts movies ignore heart and emotion in favor of vengeance and gore.
He said his latest film to hit U.S. theaters, the Mandarin-language "Hero," is an antidote to other by-the-numbers action movies, an epic story about ancient China that aims to mesmerize moviegoers.
"We make the movements like a dream, more romantic, look pretty and (characters) have respect. It's not like old Hong Kong films two guys fighting, destroy the table, everything in the room broken and destroyed. Here it's more classic," Li said, clutching a string of Buddhist prayer beads while sitting on an outdoor patio of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art before a recent preview screening.
In "Hero," set circa 200 B.C., Li plays a nameless ranger who receives an audience with the King of Qin, a historical figure who became China's first emperor, oversaw the building of the Great Wall and conquered the six other warring states.
A trio of assassins from those regions Sky, Broken Sword and Snow have long tried to murder the king, and Li's character is there to relate how he defeated Sky (Donnie Yen) with mystical swordsmanship and used the love between Broken Sword (Tony Leung Chiu-Wai) and Snow (Maggie Cheung) to turn them against each other.
In "Hero," human beings hover over placid mountain lakes, dart toward each other faster than light, clash swords with a thousand marauding soldiers and deflect impossible attacks under a sky blackened by flying arrows.
"We talk about martial arts having three levels," Li said in broken English. "The first level we talk about the physical: Sword on your hand is part of your body. You use like it's your arm. The second part, you don't (really) have a sword but the sword in your heart. Before the physical contact, maybe you can scare them. Maybe you can use imagination, talking. Make them afraid.
"Third level, the highest level," he added. "You love your enemy."
In other words, mercy is courage.
But is that what action film fans want? Li says they do, but Hollywood is too timid to give it to them.
He points to the success of the similarly operatic fighting film "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," a Mandarin-language drama that debuted in the United States in 2000 and earned nearly $130 million.
What's more, Li said, is that many action fans already love the movie. The movie debuted in China in 2002, and DVDs of "Hero" have made their way from Asia and Europe to the United States, where the movie is copied and traded.
But so far, because distributor Miramax Films has long delayed the theatrical release, most U.S. fans have only seen it on their TV screens.
Li hopes they'll see it again on the big screen when it opens nationwide Friday.
The 41-year-old actor, who spent two decades as a Hong Kong star before making the transition to Hollywood in 1998's "Lethal Weapon 4," also sees this as a transition for him.
"I made more than 30 movies, most of them commercial action films: Good guy, got a problem, learning martial arts, come back, revenge, kill the bad guy. Lot of that," he said. "I want to find some movies to make that's different."
In "Hero," Li said director Zhang Yimou wanted to explore "what kind of person can become hero" within the framework of fighting, politics, romance and jealousy. Is it the conquering king? The assassins? The killer of the assassins?
After having hits with the American "Kiss of the Dragon," "Romeo Must Die" and "The One" Li was advised against forgoing his usual salary to return to China and star in a Mandarin-language movie.
But he liked the philosophical story, and said the script made him cry twice.
"They say, 'Jet, you're crazy. You're stupid,' because I don't take money. I say, `OK, fine. I just want to make it.' My experience is, if I continue to make this kind of film, another `Romeo Must Die,' another `Cradle 2 the Grave,' it's just another kick ass. What's that? After three? One, they like it, second it's OK, then three and four ... go home. Finished. Because the audience grew up, you didn't. The studio didn't. I think today they want some unique story, unique way to talk about a story. That's why we have `Crouching Tiger,' and 'Hero' and 'Unleashed.'"
"Unleashed" is his next English-language action movie, set for U.S. release in spring 2005, and Li plays a master fighter who's enslaved by an underground-fight promoter and treated like a dog throughout adulthood. When his leash is removed, he brutally attacks whoever's in sight.
Li hopes that movie and "Hero" will help him put the "artist" back into "martial artist."
It refreshing that Jet Li realizes that his English-language movies SUCK. I hope this translates into better movies for him in the future. "Hero" was a step in the right direction for him.
Quote from: matt35mm"Hero" was a step fucking huge leap in the right direction for him.
i liked Jet Li and the cinematography. that's about it. some of the fight scenes were coreographed well, but i didnt really think it was that great.
Flawed as it was, I really enjoyed it.
I guess I thought it was going to be cheaper so I was pleasantly surprised.
The cinematography and fight scenes alone made this worth seeing for sure.
good interview with Jet Li:
http://www.tribute.ca/player/enhancePlayer.asp?isWM=1&isQT=1&filePath=Interviews&fileName=jetli
interview with jet li, donnie yen, and Quentin Tarantino
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=trailer&id=1808404384&intl=us
It was a beautiful film, well acted, a masterpiece, but... I was expecting a masterpiece of another kind.
From the trailer the film looks to be an epic kung-fu revenge quest filled with blood, death and awesomeness, not the weepy, grandiose, Rashomon style melodrama it is.
I think I have figured out why I don't like the WiuXiu style of fantasical Kung Fu films: no blood, techniclaly perfect, yet boring fight sequences, and too much damm flying.
And the retelling and retelling of the central story as new facts came to light got real old real quick. How many times do we have to see the guy get stabbed or someone scream in slow-mo? It was like watching the Lord of the RIngs films back to back and realizing that frodo falling down all the time is pretty boring actually.
I should have known what to expect when i learned that the actors from 'In the Mood for Love' were in this one. I love that film and I think i would have loved this one too if I had gone into it expecting a soap opera. But I honestly feel i was duped severely by the marketing. Is it possible that Tarantino's love for this film gave him the idea to misrepresent it in the trailer just to get more people out to experience what he feels is an awesome film?
in the end I just don't care about this thing. give me Casshern, or any awesome samurai film instead of these epic kung-fu fables. I bet if all the slow-mo shots were sped up the film would have lost about an hour of run time.
Quote from: analogzombieIs it possible that Tarantino's love for this film gave him the idea to misrepresent it in the trailer just to get more people out to experience what he feels is an awesome film?
No. That would be Disney/Miramax's marketing department.
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: analogzombieIs it possible that Tarantino's love for this film gave him the idea to misrepresent it in the trailer just to get more people out to experience what he feels is an awesome film?
No. That would be Disney/Miramax's marketing department.
good point, damm you Weinsteins!!!
Chinese Film 'Hero' Tops North American Box Office
Two years after opening in China, the martial arts thriller "Hero" set a record for an Asian film in North America, kicking off at No. 1 with a better-than-expected haul of $17.8 million, according to studio estimates issued on Sunday.
Miramax Films' Jet Li vehicle was the only highlight of an otherwise quiet weekend for movies. Ticket sales tend to be slow in late August and early September since studios have already released their big summer guns and are getting ready to roll out their Oscar contenders and holiday crowd pleasers.
"Hero," directed by Zhang Yimou, was nominated for a foreign-language Oscar in 2003. Jet Li plays a nameless warrior in the third century BC, when China was split into warring kingdoms.
In a rare development for a foreign-language film, Miramax distributed "Hero" in 2,031 theaters across North America. Most foreign films open in a handful of theaters in the top markets and slowly expand if ticket sales are good.
Miramax has been sitting on the film for two years, prompting speculation that it was unhappy with it. The studio, which has been engaged in a lengthy feud with its Disney parent, paid a reported $21 million to distribute "Hero" in North America and some European territories.
A Miramax spokeswoman said the delay was because the studio did not want it released too close to director Ang Lee's similarly themed "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," which won four Oscars in 2001.
It also wanted to advertise the film by putting trailers for both films in kung-fu buff Quentin Tarantino's "Kill Bill" series. "Hero" comes with a "Quentin Tarantino presents" tag, just to drive the point home. Not surprisingly, Miramax said the audience was mostly male, aged between 18 and 29.
Quote from: MacGuffinA Miramax spokeswoman said the delay was because the studio did not want it released too close to director Ang Lee's similarly themed "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," which won four Oscars in 2001.
good thinking, i think three years apart will about do it. in related news, in order to avoid the Spider-Man 2 crowds, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow has been moved to September 17th, 2007.
yeah, but just as sky captain has NOTHING in common with Spiderman, Hero really has not much in common with Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. A lot of it just comes down to the dumb opinions of marketing execs. Like how Zatoichi is pretty much gone from the theater this weekend, because I guess each theater is only allowed to play one foreign film that features swords.
question: did anyone else think that this film was a defense of imperialism?
this movie was terriffic
spoils
it was alright. good concept/lies and fights (mixed with terrible cg).. but a lot of it would never work literally the way they showed it. it would have to be a fairy tale. (eg everyone chanting the exact same speech at the exact same time to the king. how can that be percieved as anything but funny? it's Life of Brian.)
Quote from: picolasit would have to be a fairy tale. (eg everyone chanting the exact same speech at the exact same time to the king.
I thought the mythic fairy tale element was a given. You know, given the flying sword fights and such...
Quote from: GhostboyI thought the mythic fairy tale element was a given. You know, given the flying sword fights and such...
well, yeah. it kind of inhabited that world, but i didn't believe a lot of the things that happened on film like i would if i had read them in a children's book. film fairy-tale logic and fairy-tale fairy-tale logic is different.
whoa a little condescending now aren't we.
umm... no?
i was explaining my opinion, but if it reads that way i apologize.
Quote from: petewhoa a little condescending now aren't we.
whoa a little whoa aren't whoa
Quote from: picolasumm... no?
i was explaining my opinion, but if it reads that way i apologize.
I mean, just because it's fantasy or surreal don't mean it's gotta be fairy-tale. plenty movies have characters interacting with dialogues that seem totally contrived right? musicals sequences for example, that wouldn't be fairy-tale. also, I just took the chant as some kind of official chant to the emperor whenever something like this arises--Nameless wasn't his first or last assassin, so I assumed all the people in the court knew the standard procedure...etc. I laughed at the movie too, especially the "how swift thy sword" line they repeat over and over again, but to label the entire movie childish/ fairytale due to simple genre conventions (such as flying swordplay or trivial exotic customs) seems a bit too dismissive.
spoils
Quote from: peteI mean, just because it's fantasy or surreal don't mean it's gotta be fairy-tale.
is that what you meant? oh.
Quote from: peteplenty movies have characters interacting with dialogues that seem totally contrived right? musicals sequences for example, that wouldn't be fairy-tale.
no. it would be musical. i'd believe a bunch of people in a musical bursting into song and dance numbers.
Quote from: petealso, I just took the chant as some kind of official chant to the emperor whenever something like this arises--Nameless wasn't his first or last assassin, so I assumed all the people in the court knew the standard procedure...etc.
i could never believe all those guards would memorize that
enormous speech and recite it perfectly in unison because they were used to the king almost getting assassinated so many times.
Quote from: petebut to label the entire movie childish/ fairytale due to simple genre conventions (such as flying swordplay or trivial exotic customs) seems a bit too dismissive.
i didn't have a problem with the flying. and i didn't label the whole movie a fairytale. i just said some things in Hero were too fairytale-like to be taken as literally as you can't help but take them when you're watching a movie. sometimes you can't mess with certain pieces of logic.
okay but i should still see this anyway right? cuz the trailer is sooooo meautiful. (yeah i said meautiful.)
okay, so now we're narrowing it down to the chanting in unison thing. I don't think "permission to execute"/ "set an example out of him" is too long to be memorized. and I guess this is a cultural thing, but people in the emperor's court do chant in unison, or so according to all the period pieces I've seen anyways. in the beginning when an advisor/eunuch congratulates nameless for making the kingdom safe, did the rest of those dudes chant something as well? I don't remember, but I thought they did.
I'm not saying that the movie is literal in any sense. I mean the whole "kungfu is like water/calligraphy/chess/music" thing is a pretty self-referencial evidence that it isn't, and the imaginary fights and colors too tell you that it's more of a fable than any sort of historical drama, but I don't think the chant is that illogical. it'll be memorized and recited like a song, and one chant for each occasion. I've seen most of these types of chants in other movies as blessings (wishing the emperor to live long lives and lead a prosperous kingdom and such) and a bit shorter, but I don't think a longer variation of it is illogical.
Quote from: peteokay, so now we're narrowing it down to the chanting in unison thing.
no. it's just the only example i brought up.
Quote from: peteI don't think "permission to execute"/ "set an example out of him" is too long to be memorized.
they said way more than that. it was like a minute worth of chanting. with the exact same amount of pausing between non-responses from the emporer. nothing about customs will sell it for me. in the context of the film, it was too much.
Quote from: picolasQuote from: peteI don't think "permission to execute"/ "set an example out of him" is too long to be memorized.
they said way more than that. it was like a minute worth of chanting. with the exact same amount of pausing between non-responses from the emporer. nothing about customs will sell it for me. in the context of the film, it was too much.
Yeah I agree. I immediately thought, "okay how the hell did they know to say EXACTLY THAT?"
Hey CBrad, go see it!
Quote from: CinephileQuote from: picolasQuote from: peteI don't think "permission to execute"/ "set an example out of him" is too long to be memorized.
they said way more than that. it was like a minute worth of chanting. with the exact same amount of pausing between non-responses from the emporer. nothing about customs will sell it for me. in the context of the film, it was too much.
Yeah I agree. I immediately thought, "okay how the hell did they know to say EXACTLY THAT?"
i thought so too, but i attributed it to the fantasy element of the film, and therefore i thought that part was quite chilling and very cool. like a greek chorus. i think that's the effect the director was going for. i really enjoyed this film. i completely fell for it and didn't even notice bad cgi. i thought everything looked real.
okay i saw this today. it wasnt too good. it had a great premise/setup and obviously they had some fun with the color palette, but the pacing was horrible. the director needs to ease up on the slo-mo and violin score. used sparingly can be effective, but anything OVERused and your just draining your audience. the movie just never got GOING. when even your action scenes are so slooooow, you are doing something wrong. so, i really wanted to get into it but towards the middle i realized that could no longer happen. :(
I got this from GreenCine Daily:
"Over at the New Republic site, Elbert Ventura has had enough of the nearly universal praise lavished on Hero since its long-delayed release in the US: 'After a career spent delicately sparring with censors, the critically-beloved Zhang has now made a most lavish apologia for authoritarianism.'
What's more, he argues, at least now that Miramax has trimmed it, Hero doesn't work cinematically, either: 'What we get is a succession of highlights with no air in between, a film that's a commercial for itself. It's an exquisite corpse, but a corpse nonetheless.'"
This confuses me, since I was led to believe that Tarantino helped to bring over the 120min version, which is the longest version so far.
Did I misread something somewhere or is this guy talking out of his ass?
EDIT: Alright, so I checked Moviefone, and it says it's only 96mins. So, what's the deal? Someone correct me, redirect me, whatever, just help me understand!
the whole different version for different country bullshit is total... bullshit. why can't we all just have one version, despite how violent, sexual, long, whathaveyou it is. gosh darnit!!
if i were a filmmaker it would really piss me off if there were four different versions of my film floating around the globe.
I want to see this.
the version that we all see today is the version released everywhere, even in China. The director did have a longer cut, but Miramax pressured him to cut it down to 96 minutes so the whole world would see only one version. The extended cut was just released less than a month ago, the DVD quality wasn't great, but it did have more depth (about no more than 20 minutes more depth?) and the fight scene over the water was an actual complete fight scene, not just a bunch of highlights. So in a way, Miramax left the Hero "uncut" right now because it already forced the director to cut during post production. Tarantino didn't have that much to do with anything in my opinion, he was just a marketing gimmick, like all those Thai epic films (well, only two) that Oliver Stone kept on putting his names on.
Hero itself was a terribly flawed movie, the pacing suffered because the director was an arthouse guy with no real understanding of how to tell a martial art story, and was trying to hard to subvert it at the same time (imaginary fights...etc.), so it ended up with a lot of moments that were carried solely by the high production values (good music, art direction, martial arts execution, cinematography...everything but the concept itself) and good acting.
Thanks, petey. You're a swell guy.
Quote from: HedwigI saw 30 minutes of this movie and walked out.
Bite me, Tarantino.
ur loss.
Quote from: ewardQuote from: HedwigI saw 30 minutes of this movie and walked out.
Bite me, Tarantino.
ur loss.
Yeah, really. I can't wait for House of Flying Daggers.
Miramax Home Entertainment has announced the region one release of martial arts drama Hero which stars Jet Li, Tony Leung Chiu Wai, Maggie Cheung and Ziyi Zhang. The film will be available to own from the 30th November this year, priced at around $29.99. The film itself will be presented in 2.35:1 anamorphic widescreen along with both Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 6.1 tracks. The disc will offer both the Chinese (with English subtitles) and dubbed English versions of the film, along with a 'Hero Defined' making of featurette, storyboards to four exciting scenes and an interview with the filmmaker Quentin Tarantino.
Jet Li took out a page in daily variety I guess to thank QT and Miramax. Don't know why.
http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/0/A1425B55A0D2857E80256F0900068561!opendocument
Quote from: peteHero itself was a terribly flawed movie, the pacing suffered because the director was an arthouse guy with no real understanding of how to tell a martial art story, and was trying to hard to subvert it at the same time (imaginary fights...etc.), so it ended up with a lot of moments that were carried solely by the high production values (good music, art direction, martial arts execution, cinematography...everything but the concept itself) and good acting.
thats what i was trying to say.
I love western audiences trying to critique films created with decidedly easten approaches towards filmmaking. I thought it was slow in parts as well but so are alot of films which come out of the east. I'm not surprised at all to see different pacing or an alternate way to tell their stories.
Quote from: MyxomatosisI love western audiences trying to critique films created with decidedly easten approaches.
and i especially hate when they're biased towards the ones based on truth.
Oh, and on a related note:
I can read a very small amount of chinese enough to know full well that a large amount of English subtitles in this film don't do the language of origin justice at all. I admit I don't speak it well enough to do a play by play or anything like that but one of the chief reasons it feels a little clunky in parts definetly has to do with the translation.
Quote from: MyxomatosisI love western audiences trying to critique films created with decidedly easten approaches towards filmmaking. I thought it was slow in parts as well but so are alot of films which come out of the east. I'm not surprised at all to see different pacing or an alternate way to tell their stories.
SPOILERS
haha, well, this is coming from an entirely eastern viewer. so eastern that I translated (granted a very minimal amount) for the director when he first showed his film to the first audience here in the US. And lemme tell you, the Chinese people in the crowd laugh whenever someone says "how swift thy sword" or whatever, because in Chinese, it's literally, "WHAT A SWIFT SWORD!" The subtitles clearly saved the movie.
Zhang Yimou is not all that "Eastern". You wanna see someone decidedly Eastern? How about Tsai MingLiang or Hou HsiaoHsien? Zhang has been accused of exoticizing his films for the foreign arthouse audience since his second film.
Zhang is a master, but a limited master. His movies are soulful when they're about the real working people, and he kinda sucks when he tries to do anything else. For example, his Wong Kar-Wai wanna be "city picture" Keep Cool was real embarssing, his comedy Happy Times that came out right before Hero was not funny, and his Shanghai Triad was extremely boring and cliched. That does not detract from the greatness of To Live, the single most soulful film ever made, but his understanding in the stories outside his element is very limited, and it shows. Well, I guess one can still give him props for trying, since most current masters don't really go out to dare themselves like this.
But back to Hero. I'm not sure if I disliked it for the same reason everyone else here dislikes it, but whatever, let's delve:
I think Hero is an extremely superficial movie. The ways for Zhang Yimou to portray this honor, chivalry, bond, and respect that comes out between the fighters (something even clowns like Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung can do so well) are extremely obvious: black and white imaginary fights, a lot of bowing and other exotic gestures, and slow motioned shots of self-sacrifice. He cannot back this up with some content, with some understanding, or soul that's SO prevalent in the genre. Because he hardly possesses any imagination to see what it's like to be a fighter.
And then he attempts to intellectualize these abstract aspects of martial arts through a series of metaphors, I suspect, for himself, so he can better set the rules of fighting in his universe: kungfu is like music, it's like chess, it's like calligraphy, maybe a little bit like water? His depiction of these things are also extremely bland and elementary: the word "sword" can be written in 19 different ways, so Broken Sword's power comes from the "20th way." The fighters test each other out by standing face to face for an hour (that's something the subtitle neglects to mention, I suspect, because it's just too funny.)
In most great films, they use martial arts as metaphors for something else: in Once Upon a Time in China it's the "old way of living", in Dragon Gate Inn it's when people reveal their true selves, and in most chopsocky films, it's merely a way to settle problems, like gunfights out in the West. Even in a subpar film (in originality, not in aesthetics) like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, kungfu provides kinship, a way for characters to bond.
But in Hero the characters simply fight for the sake of fighting, nothing is ever settled, proven, or accomplished--nobody really is hurt, nobody really is at risk, and nobody's belief is changed. Zhang Yimou comes up with at least four or five metaphors for kungfu, but can't come up with one reason for kungfu to exist.
To make things even more superficial: characters are developed by reading and writing! How does Jet Li abandon a lifetime of hatred and patriotism as he knew it? By reading! How did the King come to understanding his enemy? By reading. When did Broken Sword realize that the King was actually a good guy? By writing! These "character developments" are cerebral in very elementary fashions: that Nameless's great decision to betray his friends, to dishonor his deceased parents, to give up his life, and to abandon a lifetime of work comes from the oldest justification for imperialism (that the US government is still buying today): to bring "peace" through war?
That's the thing missing with this film: heart, a total lack of heart. The biggest moment of the film, when Jet Li's Nameless decides to abort the mission, should be an emotional one, it should highlight the extreme sacrifice he's made and talked about throughout the film, yet when that moment comes, the director instead focuses on "did he or didn't he stab the guy?"
this is what makes Hero an unsatisfactory movie. A director whose understanding in the genre is about as good as some kid on Xixax, tries to make a martial arts movie that's seemingly "different" ("it's about NOT fighting! It's about peace" so the director likes to claim) and it ends up being forcibly different in all the wrong places, in the superficial formalistic elements of the film, while lacking any heart.
I didn't say I thought it was a good film. Just that,
A: Something is lost in the translation.
B: I liked it for what it was.
well, I didn't say it was a BAD film (it was really well-made) just that
a) its problems weren't in its "Eastern"ness as you mentioned earlier
b) it was badly directed.
I'm starting to think I'm the only person who liked the film. Obviously comparisons can be made to Crouching Tiger & Rashamon, but I enjoyed those movies. In the end, I was very pleased with Hero. The fight scenes worked, the twists threw me offguard and the acting was superb, not to mention Doyle's cinematography.
The gripes about the chanting, etc or the over to topness of it didn't bother me. I thought of the entire film much like the flashbacks, they were stories being told. Lets not forget that the film is bookmarked by an opening and closing that is outside of the time and context of the film.
****1/2 out of 5 stars.
Quote from: SHAFTRI'm starting to think I'm the only person who liked the film.
i never said anything against it.
and I toadally loved it
ok, just saw this tonight, and i have to ask, was it just me, or did this just come off as a gigantic cinematic blowjob for communist dictatorship? Either that or the most brilliant satire ever. In the end, it seemed all about giving power to the king to better serve the people in the end, except there's almost no mention of "the people" and we never see "the people". There are maybe 15 credited roles in the film. Other than the five or six central characters, we see the (less than) elite guard unit and a bunch of faceless calligraphers and palace guardsmen. Someone with more knowledge of the Chinese political climate have something to say about this?
"communist dictatorship"? well, which country in the world right now is actively invading other countries and "Bringing peace" through violence? which communist country?
jeremy, back me up here.[/i]
Dude, I don't think even Jeremy could figure that out, give us a hint
Well, they did just consolidate the military under Hu Jintao. I'm not saying that it's a description of communist China, just an advocation of the granting of power to an authoritarian dictator.