Alright dammit, it's time for my bitching, rampaging, vemonous rant of the month. I'm going to be bashing a movie called Stand By Me and any movie similar to it so if you like it and it's close to your heart, I suggest you stop reading now, you have been warned.
Ok........so....to begin....I'm reading this beautiful review/article type thing of a beautiful movie/gift-from-god type thing called George Washington, right? In doing this, I have a revelation. One that I hope you will understand and agree with by the time you read this whole thing. I realize something that I should have realized a long time ago. The article talked about the serious lack of good adolescent/teen movies in past years. It deemed GW as the last great film about childhood since The 400 Blows. They praised it and hit every right note. In doing this, they mentioned the horrible Stand By Me...a movie that strived REEEEEEEAAAALY HARD to do what GW did perfectly and fucking failed miserably. It's a "coming of age" (haha, yeah right!) film about a bunch of fast talking, foul mouthed, too cool for school little non-likeable little gross, punk kids and it SUCKS! It's about as real and honest as The Real World. And get this guys, GW outdoes it with-fucking-out the in your face emotional scenes or any of the sappiness! As I said, it's honest. It's a perfect film. Now, just to be clear...I saw Stand By Me awhile ago and well, I just disliked it...plain and simple. I didn't really HATE it, I definitely didn't like it...just disliked it. But this review/article...it made me realize that I actually really do HATE it. It represents the type of film that overshadows all of the little gems (GW, The 400 Blows) that can barely ignite the tortured genre of teen/adolescent films and it is sad. They will always get overlooked. There is just too few of them.
It's pointless to say because it'll never happen but...we need more Virgin Suicides and less Pay It Forwards...we need more Rushmores and less American Pies...we need more Say Anythings and less A Walk To Remembers...dammit, we need more great teen/adolescent films.
Let me guarantee and clarify something for those that do not know. My first film will be a teen movie, it will be the most honest film about young people since (at this point) All the Real Girls. It's not going to be like fucking Welcome To the Dollhouse with all hell breaking loose and EVERYTHING going wrong and potraying teen life as completely HORRIBLE...it's also not going to be like American Pie with everybody having sex and scoring with whoever they want and making "pacts" and all that stupid shit either...it's going to be happy, sad, funny, heartbreaking...it's going to have nearly every emotion that teen life has...I want to try to capture that for once. I know it's ambitious but it's not impossible. I've seen it done before. I hope those that agree with this whole rant will see and love this film. I'll list the influences I have for it just to give you and idea of what it might be like....
-alice doesn't live here anymore
-all the real girls
-badlands
-blackboard jungle
-the breakfest club
-breathless
-buffalo '66
-days of heaven
-edward scissorhands
-the elephant man
-fast times at ridgemont high
-the 400 blows
-george washington
-the graduate
-the last picture show
-punch drunk love
-say anything...
-something wild
-taxi driver
-the virgin suicides
-you can count on me
-y tu mama tambien[/list:u]
I hope you guys think this sounds cool. See all of those films by the way.
Anyway, enough about all that. Now, it's time for you to talk and for me to stop being self indulgent. Tell me what you think about this whole mess of a thread. It's rambling, it's sprawling but it has a point. Do you think teens and kids are potrayed (in general) well in films or not? Do you agree with me and think rarely? Or do you think the opposite? Tell me what you think of ALL of it. I don't think it would kill ya to say a thing or two about my honest teen film idea either...some feedback, some tips, some do's and don'ts...those would be fucking great actually! Yea, tell me things you are fucking SICK of seeing in teen movies! Please, everyone do that! That would be great advice...I would appreciate that so much. Also, just tell me what you think of the influences and if you think it sounds like it might be cool. Then, as I said, give your outlook on the other stuff too and I'll shut up now. Thanks for reading. I don't feel like going back and proofreading this so please try and disregard any minor errors, thanks again.
You talk the talk BUT DO YOU WLAKAEWNJO4BN;45N3
Ebs, I think everything you wrote is so fucking solid, and so fucking true. Kick ass. Yes, I too hate the steamy mound of shit that is Stand By Me. I hate what all those teen movies stand for. But I've tried, tried soooo hard, to write a good teen movie ever since highschool. And I've failed. I have two horrible scripts. Just horrible. I've scrapped both of them. I realize now that I cannot write this kind of film. Basically Last Picture Show is the closest I'm gonna get to what I want, and even that has an affair with an older woman, which I would leave out. But I think a straight-up high school kids story might be impossible to write. I once detailed this to a coworker of mine, and I said "no over-the-top drug use, no teen prenancy, no suicides", just kids being kids, and having fun, and feeling sad, JUST REAL EMOTIONS with no pat story. He just looked at me and said "what fucking school did you go to?". So I salute you -- I hope you write a fucking killer flick. God knows we need one.
I have to say I pretty much enjoy every teen movie I see: I'm a real sucker for them... Everything that makes them bad: the contrived story (generally based around a bet or something), the one-hit-wonder pop punk bands on the soundtrack, the unrealistic dialogue - I love it all. I have a particular place in my heart for American Pie (and I do honestly think that, although exagerated, it is a pretty honest teen movie. Not realistic, but truthful in a weird way).
Of course the films you mention (Rushmore, Virgin Suicides, Goddamn-still-haven't-seen-George-Washington) are a completely different matter - I don't even really compare them. Although they're about teens, they basically aren't just going for the teen market.
If you include all those influences it will be the best fucking teen movie ever...! Have you started writing?
P.S: I like Stand By Me too.
I'm in the process of writing the teen movie you're cursading after....so far it's terrible. It's amazingly hard to do...I guess my only hope is to structure it like Dazed and Confused....but there's so much I want to say...the movie would have to be nine hours or something.
We should collaborate
EB, that's probably the best list of influences you could possibly have, and if you follow up on it, it's going to be one hell of a movie. And while I have a few fond memories of Stand By Me, your post was very astute, heartfelt and worth paying attention to. Excellent.
Ooo, the shots on Stand by Me, maybe I should have stopped reading. I thought Stand by Me was great and it really resonated with me. I saw it before I was 12, when I was 12 and years since I was 12. Every time it gets better and hits me harder.
I too have thought hard about a teen script. I want to really explore the friendship aspect more than anything else. It's hard to write a teen movie though b/c I think the truth is that everyone had a different adolescence and some movies will seem cheesy and fake to one person and real with another.
I was once going to make a teen movie; then I realized (I think) that there will be just as many poignant, memorable struggles throughout my life that I would also like to capture on film, and I'll probably end up drawing from those instead...just to expand on the pool of material.
ya know what is neat, john singleton was very inspired by stand by me when he wrote " boyz in the hood"
and not just the " want to see a dead body" part
there is the part about the hat, he turned it into a football, and the ending with ice cube its the same ending with river
he took the whole film absorbed it and spit it out in his own way
and it was very creative, and i think he brought a lot to it and turned it into something new
i think its cool, here is this kid growing up in the 80's in south central L.A , and he sees stand by me and it means something to him a film about a bunch of white kids in the earlly 60's
thats what a film fan should be like, not a fucking snob or jerkoff i find this to be inspirational
not to start shit but the world needs less virgin suicides
sofia coppala, is just someone who tried everything and failed then she followed her dad into the family biz
she tried acting, she had a band, she had a tv show that was so bad that it made people want to kill themselves, then she made clothes then she...
donovan leith brother of ioni sky, he did all these things too but he has not directed a film yet
ditto zoe cassavetties
just bored rich showbiz kids " I wannnnnna be famouse !!!! tooooooooooooo"
Well Im going to respond and say what I want, and whether it is relevant to what ebeaman said, I dont know, Its too long to read, but I think Stand By Me is timeless and fumes of things I wish I did when I was younger. For some reason I also loved Sandlot, those 50s and 60s kids movies do it for me in a non pedophiliac way
i love the leeches.
Quote from: Duck SauceWell Im going to respond and say what I want, and whether it is relevant to what ebeaman said, I dont know, Its too long to read, but I think Stand By Me is timeless and fumes of things I wish I did when I was younger. For some reason I also loved Sandlot, those 50s and 60s kids movies do it for me in a non pedophiliac way
i dont want to shit all over ebaum, seems like a nice guy
but he was way off
ive been thinking a lot about this for the past few minutes
take a film like " boogie nights" that is what most of us would call a perfect modern film
i can draw a closer line to it to stand by me then i could virgin suicides
because BN Is a real film and not some artsy jerkoff peice
there is nothing wrong with conventional mainstream films, when they are very well made conventional mainstream films
isnt that the goal ? To better the art of film
who sets out to be weird, only idiots
The goal is to make a film that is so awsome and honest to yourself, and then have it make tons of money
because money means people have seen it, and that means it has a chance to inspire many
thats why all the greats want to make popular movies, they want to make them there way
the great directers dont have to try and be weird and differnt they just are, and thats what makes them great
being artsy for the sake of being artsy is just dumb
with boogie nights pta told the story of a guy with a 13 inch dick who makes porno movies , and he made it as if he was making star wars
he wasnt trying to look cool and deep , he cant help but to be cool and deep
Hmm. That's very true, too.
This is a great thread!! I'm pretty sure we all (at least those of us who do wanna make films) struggle with this discussion internally, at some time or another. Really, there's no definitive answer... except maybe to do whatever makes you feel good. If making a Stand By Me type movie is truly what you wanna do, then who the fuck am I to stand in your way? 'Cause if you make something that you can love and get excited about -- since we're all human -- chances are many others will get excited about it, too.
Probably the hardest thing about teen type stories is that, no matter what you think, you always have something to prove. I wanted to justify why I didn't get this girl, even though I really loved her, and all that bullshit just killed my script, this subjective moralizing. That's why I've retreated to genre stuff now, I can just tell a story, and get my feet back on the ground. Then maybe get more confidence to tackle this personal historical stuff. What Ghostboy said was very good too, about how maybe there will be other experiences later in life and we will want so bad to write about those. Probably everday, if you're passionate about life, you'll find something new to write about. It will be banal to everyone else, but raging inside of you.... then I guess you just have to find a way to tell it so it rages for everyone else. Then that's where talent and craft and experience come in.... well, I'm rambling.
I'm fucking glad you guys have this board, where I can get all this stuff out...
sonow, isnt it neat how singleton re interpeted stand by me, and created something so differnt and fresh
i want to use a sampiling analagy, but the mesh's of the world will say that i just making a black generlization when i am not
its like this, pauls boutique, the beastie boys took songs by the eagles and created something else and new and fresh
de la soul , they took a hall and oates song and created " say no go"
thats what singleton did, i really see him watching stand by me and bringing his own vision to it and re interperting it and creating something awsome
so my point is , maybe a film might be a fluff peice to one person it could be something very deep to someone else
and the proof is in the end result , and i think boyz in the hood is that proof
I totally agree that Stand By Me is bogus. I was always pissed that such a mediocre movie got so much press and such huge box office grosses, but that was 1986, and movies sucked back then.
A much better teen movie is Dazed and Confused. It is totally authentic in every detail. No bogus conflicts and/or confrontations. In fact, I feel Dazed and Confused sets the benchmark of excellence for all teen movies. It is neither as broad as the John Hughes comedies nor as earnest as Cameron Crowe's movies -- in order words, it is the perfect balance between comedy and drama. In fact, I think it transcends the teen movie genre. It reminds me of Thornton Wilder's Our Town, capturing its particular time and place (Austin, Texas, 1976) as artfully and as definitively and as poignantly as Thornton Wilder captured small town life in the early 20th Century. Its epiphanies are not over-stressed nor rammed down your throat the way they are in Hollywood movies.
i like dazed and cunfused, more then stand by me
but again this is way off here
im not a huge fan of stand by me, i am a huge fan of 16 candles however
and you did say that thing about john hughs films
look its ok to be fun, and every generation needs its american pies, why not they are fun and goofy
if all teen films were seriouse art films, all we would do is raise a nation of people like mesh or douce bags who name themselves " magonoliafan" or " 82" , and then nobody wins
how about this, watch a film like dazed and cunfused and also watch a film like 16 candles
get the best of both worlds
Yes. Or to use an analogy: stare at a Playboy chick for her wonderous rack, then be in awe of Tina Fey and her brilliance. Both together create a yin and yang of sexy. Best of both worlds. Or something.
It is very late, and I am way overtired, and half tipped on a brew. And all sentimental for this xixax board.
But I can see everybody's point here. I still think that The Last Picture Show is as close as it's gonna get. Well, the Last Picture Show, minus the affair with the gym teacher's wife, plus the monologue about Gang Banging Smurfs from Donnie Darko. That'll do it.
Quote from: SoNowThenYes. Or to use an analogy: stare at a Playboy chick for her wonderous rack, then be in awe of Tina Fey and her brilliance. Both together create a yin and yang of sexy. Best of both worlds. Or something.
It is very late, and I am way overtired, and half tipped on a brew. And all sentimental for this xixax board.
But I can see everybody's point here. I still think that The Last Picture Show is as close as it's gonna get. Well, the Last Picture Show, minus the affair with the gym teacher's wife, plus the monologue about Gang Banging Smurfs from Donnie Darko. That'll do it.
the last picture show, a young nude cybil sheapard
:: sigh:: what a film
Yeah. Peter Bogdanovich says, upon imminent casting of Cybil..."are we gonna see the stretch marks?" And I believe it was his wife who said she's only 17 or whatever, she doesn't have any, don't worry.
So what does he do? Puts her in a huge nudie scene, falls in love, and kicks up a crazy affair. What a wolf. He makes some great fucking films. And the sumbitch can do a kick ass impression of Orson Welles. He let him live in his house. How cool is that? Fucking a teenage Cybil, while the Third Man's using the extra bedroom...
I don't care for Stand By Me. It seems to me to be mere baby-boomer nostalgia for childhood. A "better... simpler.." blah blah *yawn* It's interesting that John Singleton was inspired by it, I guess. Doesn't really change my opinion of the film.
Virgin Suicides doesn't suffer from rose-colored nostalgia. Neither does Boogie Nights. I don't consider either of these films "arty," either. That's just another easy, simplistic buzzword that doesn't really mean anything. They do have much more texture and technique than Stand by Me, however. [/i]
Quote from: SoNowThenYeah. Peter Bogdanovich says, upon immenent casting of Cybil..."are we gonna see the stretch marks?" And I believe it was his wife who said she's only 17 or whatever, she doesn't have any, don't worry.
So what does he do? Puts her in a huge nudie scene, falls in love, and kicks up a crazy affair. What a wolf. He makes some great fucking films. And the sumbitch can do a kick ass impression of Orson Welles. He let him live in his house. How cool is that? Fucking a teenage Cybil, while the Third Man's using the extra bedroom...
i was gonna post exactlly what you just said almost word for word .........fuck this
its starting to sound like i am making this shit up , i have no reason to this is fucking weird
we do this a lot
Sorry.
Quote from: godardianI don't care for Stand By Me. It seems to me to be mere baby-boomer nostalgia for childhood. A "better... simpler.." blah blah *yawn* It's interesting that John Singleton was inspired by it, I guess. Doesn't really change my opinion of the film.
Virgin Suicides doesn't suffer from rose-colored nostalgia. Neither does Boogie Nights. I don't consider either of these films "arty," either. That's just another easy, simplistic buzzword that doesn't really mean anything. They do have much more texture and technique than Stand by Me, however. [/i]
the fact that you would connect BN With the virgin suicide is further proof that you have no clue what BN Is about
gee yeah BN Is not nostalgic at all :roll:
part of the reason why it is so great is that its a love letter to that era
Quote from: SoNowThenSorry.
no no its just so weird, if i were to look at this from the outside i would say
" ok maybe once or twice, but now he is making this up"
but now its so funny and weird
this is what i said , " And bogdavich picked her cast her, and then got to fuck her, what a man"
of course my post was more ya know profane
i edited it, because i didnt want to drag this on
Well everyones childhood experiences are different, plus in a market (particularly in the summer) whose audience is largely made up of young people, the majority is obviously going to be a better target. For example I'm sure a lot of people who love the American Pie movies would think that Max Fischer is a complete loser, and wouldn't understand why the story focuses around him.
Stand By Me is a combination of some of Dreyfuss, Reiner and Kings youths and its a pretty faithful adaptation of The Body. I really like it, although much more when I was younger. To me though I dont think that the film was trying to say anything about the 'life of a teen' (that crap makes me sick) it was highlighting this one moment, where people go their different ways. They have this intimate adventure together, and then they practically never see each other again, and I can relate to that. They dont 'come of age' at all really, they just share one last adventure.
I just think trying to label something as teen movie is a bunchacrap anyway. To me, once you get out of your teens nothing suddenly changes. To focus on one age group rarely seems like a good idea. Thats why I think Ghost World is so great, many charcters wide ranging in age, and yet at the heart of it is a teenager trying to find a place in the world and whether she actually wants a place in the world.
But as a teenager - who wants to take all that so seriously? Why not just watch some fun entertainment - stupid gross out comedy, or some no- brains action movie. Dont need some movie to tell the finer points of how being a teenager can be tough.
I'm glad someone came to the defense of Stand By Me. I wish I had come upon this thread a little earlier (or to come to its defense first). But you put it quite succinctly. I don't see any "rose-colored" nostalgia attatched to the movie. It really is about people going their seperate ways, and learning something about themselves and their friends, and that, IMO, makes a great fucking movie. :)
I'm sorry, but even though the original post has passion and all, it really is typical. Nothing more than commercialism vs. art and how all the good movies supposebly fit into the latter. Playing the dividing game is a bad thing because it in no way determines the quality of the movie. Stand By Me is the film getting bashed here, but I'll believe that film over Rushmore any day in being sincere about the characters. Rushmore has so much gloss around it story that it can look at any of them straight unless something cute is being attributed to their actions. In my mind, Rushmore is far the weaker movie. I really like Stand By Me and I do see the nostalgic argument in it, but nostalgia is a part of our lives. That determines nothing for the movie and considering the fact I think the movie has an even handed approach much more than others like it, I can't really lay fault in the movie. The identity of the movie does lie in that category though, but it doesn't over play its hand in bringing too much of something. Stand By Me has a good story and seems more interested in just telling that and being a good movie for what it is. Rushmore, on the other hand, is based on a world of contrivance not interesting it becomes compromise to what could have been a better and more "honest" movie.
~rougerum
Quote from: AlguienEstolamiPantalones
he wasnt trying to look cool and deep , he cant help but to be cool and deep
I agree. Those are the movies I like best. I dont fall for that shit where somebody goes out to make a deep and moving movie, I go for the ones where they make a good interesting story and as long as that is secure it can be meaningfull or lifeless
i think this is a really interesting thread because people seem to be divided into two camps about it. a lot of people like stand by me. i agree with the gold trumpet where its the art/commercializm argument, easier said than done. "im going to make an honest movie". (ps. have you seen cq, funny). if you had picked an easier target like umm A Walk To Remember or something that everybody here didnt grow up with there would have been less resistance. whats funny is that there may be huge similarities in those movies but since we grew up with the one, we like it, or hold the memory of liking it. because, like it or not, people like movies like stand by me.
ebeaman.
shit.
I think the art vs. commercialization categories are too simplistic. ALL narrative feature filmmaking, however loosely or rigidly you want to define that, is "commercial" by nature. And a lot of the public's perceptions have much more to do with marketing than with the film itself. To me, there's nothing special or particularly enjoyable about Stand by Me. It felt like a TV show. I found it very bland and full of moments that seemed calculated in a very pandering, content-based way.
I'll refer once again to Andrew Sarris's "It's not WHAT, but HOW." Based on that very sage yardstick, I prefer Rushmore far and away over Stand by Me.
I agree that putting things into categories like "teen movie" is fairly useless.
Quote from: children with angels
If you include all those influences it will be the best fucking teen movie ever...! Have you started writing?
No, I haven't started writing it yet....I haven't really experienced all of teen life yet. See, this film that I talk of making will be about teens of different ages, it won't just be about a 1-2 year age range like American Pie is. It'll be about everything, 13-19..even 20-21 and 10-12 too. I wanna wait till I've graduated high school to start writing this thing. I want to make sure I have all my ideas and have met a lot of different kinds of kids and seen some more fights and breaks ups and stuff...then I'll take ALL those lists that I have (I have tons even now) and absolutely start writing.
BY THE WAY - I can't fucking believe I forgot to list Days of Heaven, Badlands, and Fast Times and Breakfest Club on my influences list! I know I probably look like a poser fan of them now but I seriously forgot! I can't fucking believe it, seriously...they are practically blueprints for some scenes I have in mind.
Get on it, man. We're waiting.
Quote from: ebeamanQuote from: children with angels
If you include all those influences it will be the best fucking teen movie ever...! Have you started writing?
No, I haven't started writing it yet..
You have a whole summer to do it, right...? Take advantage of that! Some of us have to do our serious writing on weekends and after days of drudging work. Now is the time, kid!
I love Stand By Me. This was the first movie I truly loved as a kid when I saw it on TV, I didn't even know what it was called back then. Years later, I was so happy to find it at a video that i shed a tear. This movie is great. Fuck GW.
Quote from: EL__SCORCHOI love Stand By Me. This was the first movie I truly loved as a kid when I saw it on TV, I didn't even know what it was called back then. Years later, I was so happy to find it at a video that i shed a tear. This movie is great. Fuck GW.
i think the negative remarks about it so far have been really dumb
The one comment that sort of made me realized what a dick I was being was the one talked about the two different kinds of teen movies...the honest, serious ones...and the ones actually marketed at teens...and how they shouldn't be compared. That shut me up pretty fast w/ my Stand By Me bashing. That was a really good point. I still feel I am right in saying that we deserve more of the serious ones though, there's still very few. I don't think I'm being a dick in saying that, it's almost inarguable. Sure, the sex fucking pie ones are great once or twice for a good laugh in the summer...but I could live without them easily.
Quote from: ebeamanThe one comment that sort of made me realized what a dick I was being was the one talked about the two different kinds of teen movies...the honest, serious ones...and the ones actually marketed at teens...and how they shouldn't be compared. That shut me up pretty fast w/ my Stand By Me bashing. That was a really good point. I still feel I am right in saying that we deserve more of the serious ones though, there's still very few. I don't think I'm being a dick in saying that, it's almost inarguable. Sure, the sex fucking pie ones are great once or twice for a good laugh in the summer...but I could live without them easily.
balance
you watch a film like magnolia, and then watch a fun film like sugar and spice
all the greats do, and the rest well they write scripts that nobody will ever want to look at
good point. nobody wouldve guessed paul loves adam sandler movies. but ODB is right. if you dont have balance, youll probably write some ultrapersonal arty crap that nobody will ever see (if it even got made in the first place).
Quote from: themodernage02good point. nobody wouldve guessed paul loves adam sandler movies. but ODB is right. if you dont have balance, youll probably write some ultrapersonal arty crap that nobody will ever see (if it even got made in the first place).
Oh fuck yeah...you guys are both right...balance is great. I'm going to make all kinds of movies. I'm going to make low budget, quiet little movies...then big budget freaking Tom Cruise...freaking George Clooney movies....all kinds man. I always want to be able to have that freedom.
I'm going to make possibly very bad films too...ones that may go horribly wrong I mean...I'm not saying intentionally bad of course. But I wanna take chances. Like, I have this idea for a film called Electric Lemonade, about a guy who resurrects a childhood lemonade stand and turns it into a national success of a restaurant after he loses his job. That's going to be either fucking awesome or HORRIBLE...I love not knowing what it's going to be like. I'm going to wait a long time to make it. That'll be one of the big budget ones with George Clooney and a backing ensemble cast and explosions and tv spots and all that awesome stuff...but it'll still be honest and real. It's going to be like a sexy, fun 80's movie but with some poignancy and some sadness and darkness too...Boogie Nights is the biggest inspiration for Electric Lemonade.
Anyway, yeah...I'm not looking to be artsy and indy for my whole career. I want to make all kinds of stuff and discover new, weird things and travel around and work with BIG HUGE EXPERIENCED actors as well as people who have never seen a camera in their life...that is heaven right there. It's pure balance. I have balance in my taste too just so you guys know. I like some non-honest, films that I watch just cause they are so fun. Adventures in Babysitting and The Craft will never be without my love.
Quote from: themodernage02good point. nobody wouldve guessed paul loves adam sandler movies. but ODB is right. if you dont have balance, youll probably write some ultrapersonal arty crap that nobody will ever see (if it even got made in the first place).
yes i like being called Odb, it helps since i change my name every few hours
im just gonna stick with the picture to be safe. :wink:
i just realized something: Old Dirty Bastard, Big Baby Jesus, Dirt McGirt. you're not the only one who changes his name every few hours!
Quote from: themodernage02im just gonna stick with the picture to be safe. :wink:
i just realized something: Old Dirty Bastard, Big Baby Jesus, Dirt McGirt. you're not the only one who changes his name every few hours!
lets not forget about our shared love of drugs and pussy
Ebeaman, you talk about making the perfect teen movie. You also talk about how some of the teen movies nowadays and in the past are not real enough.
But heres the thing, how do you know that? What experiences are you realling drawing from? Your own personal high school experiences?
Take a movie like Kids or Boyz in the Hood. Do you think they portray teen life correctly? They most certainly do.
Your problem is, your trying to interpret something that is always different. And when its a wide spectrum that is impossible to cover or even know of, unless you have studied every high school in America. The way teens acted, dressed, talked, and what they did on the weekends, was probly much different from yours. And if you travel about 30 mins from my school into the hoods of Atlanta, it will be much different from my school. You see, its all so different. Whats to say those movies that draw from those experiences are not realistic or real enough?
You can't say, they were wrong. Your trying to make an HONEST movie. A movie that is the ultimate teen movie. I don't think 1 exists, because obviously teens are all different...
chris
when kids came out , people were going on and on about how un realistic it is and how it exploits this and that, but the fucked up thing is how real it is
i was a kid when it came out, and well it was pretty fucking close
Quote from: redlumThey dont 'come of age' at all really, they just share one last adventure.
But they do come of age, or at least Gordie and Chris do. The boys original intent (the MacGuffin, if you will) was to go 'accidentially' find the body and be rewarded with fame. But they learn about themselves and each other on that journey. It's a road movie of sorts. Gordie was living in his dead brother's shadow (the parents even say in Gordie's dream "that should have been you"), but then comes into his own and stands up to his nemesis.
The movie is bookended by grown up Gordie's reflections showing that friends come and friends go, but none are as close to you as when you are at that age.
Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooEbeaman, you talk about making the perfect teen movie. You also talk about how some of the teen movies nowadays and in the past are not real enough.
But heres the thing, how do you know that? What experiences are you realling drawing from? Your own personal high school experiences?
Take a movie like Kids or Boyz in the Hood. Do you think they portray teen life correctly? They most certainly do.
Your problem is, your trying to interpret something that is always different. And when its a wide spectrum that is impossible to cover or even know of, unless you have studied every high school in America. The way teens acted, dressed, talked, and what they did on the weekends, was probly much different from yours. And if you travel about 30 mins from my school into the hoods of Atlanta, it will be much different from my school. You see, its all so different. Whats to say those movies that draw from those experiences are not realistic or real enough?
You can't say, they were wrong. Your trying to make an HONEST movie. A movie that is the ultimate teen movie. I don't think 1 exists, because obviously teens are all different...
chris
I never have talked about making the perfect teen movie, that must have been somebody else.
To get specific though...I want to make a movie that is honest about suburban-rural modern teens on the east coast to get more specific. I have never seen a realistic movie about teens of that sort. I never have. I've seen one about california teens (fast times), a bunch about southern teens (all the real girls, gw, the last picture show, dazed and confused). Those seems to be realistic to the kind of teens they potray and that is GREAT! I love that! But I also want there to be a movie that potrays kids like the kids at my school in a truthful way. It is not like American Pie here dude, trust me! That attempted to do what I want to do...potray east coast teens. Personally, at my school...there are no Stifler's or Jim's or Finch's...there are people that are more realistic versions of them, sure...those are the people I wanna potray. Movies like American Pie are the reason people think ALL teens suck. I want to potray the teens that are smart and really good people AS WELL as the assholes and the outcasts. Seriously, there are some really interesting kids at my school, all different kinds. And they are nothing like ANYTHING in american Pie or Road Trip or 40 Days and 40 Nights.
Amen.
Although, Road Trip was about college guys. And was fucking hilarious. And never claimed to be a realistic movie for one second -- it was all just an overblown story told by the Tom Green character. I like Road Trip.
Quote from: ebeamanI've seen one about california teens (fast times)...Those seems to be realistic to the kind of teens they potray and that is GREAT! I love that!
I was a 'California teen', but my teen years were nothing like "Fast Times..." So if you want to stop the stereotype of East Coast teens being like "American Pie", I have to stop the one about "Fast Times..."
If you want an idea of what my teen life was like, it's closer to "Lucas".
Lucas! :-D winonas first movie role.
I think Fast Times is a pretty bad movie, memorable primarily for the swimming pool scene.
My life most closely resembled The Hollywood Knights. That is, if it were Drama club instead of a car club, and the music was 80's music instead of 60's. Oh, and leave out that part about the Vietnam war and stuff.
Quote from: XixaxMy life most closely resembled The Hollywood Knights. That is, if it were Drama club instead of a car club, and the music was 80's music instead of 60's. Oh, and leave out that part about the Vietnam war and stuff.
wow did you know anyone like newbomb turk ?
i am actully a fan of robert wuhl, but most people think i am insane ohh well
I've only got two things to say:
1) Don't lead with your chin.
2) Look the definition of "teen movie" up. Stand by Me is not it.
I liked Stand by Me a lot. Maybe I am overrating it a bit; the kids were foul-mouthed and a bit unlikable, but that's what most snot-nosed brats are like at that age, so I gave Reiner props for that even though it may have detracted from the movie a bit.
And not to steal from MacGuffin or anything, but if I rent George Washington and it sucks, you're paying me back. All the Real Girls was good, but not the holy grail you make it out to be.
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaI've only got two things to say:
1) Don't lead with your chin.
2) Look the definition of "teen movie" up. Stand by Me is not it.
I liked Stand by Me a lot. Maybe I am overrating it a bit; the kids were foul-mouthed and a bit unlikable, but that's what most snot-nosed brats are like at that age, so I gave Reiner props for that even though it may have detracted from the movie a bit.
And not to steal from MacGuffin or anything, but if I rent George Washington and it sucks, you're paying me back. All the Real Girls was good, but not the holy grail you make it out to be.
Whatever then man, that's cool. What, your trying to get a rise out of me? You think I'm really going to feel bad if you don't like it? I realize your mostly kidding but I think your probably a little serious too. I mean, you would be spending money on my recommendation alone probably, right? Cause I'm the one that talks about it the most? So, you'd have every right to be a little pissed off at me if you don't end up liking it. So, let me just warn you, you might not like it. I mean, think about it man, you probably won't like it that much if you don't agree with me about ATRG, duh...that makes sense to me. So, why risk it? You know what I mean? You should probably get to know my taste a little better before you take my recommendations so seriously, that's all I'm saying.
And don't do that 1) and 2) shit with me again by the way, seriously. That's not cool. I'm not threatening you like a little pussy fighting on the internet. I'm just saying, I don't like that at all. I just hate that sarcastic, condescending stuff. Your not above me.
I wasn't even talking about teen movies alone, I was talking about teen movies AND adolescent movies...which Stand By Me is.
Quote from: AlguienEstolamiPantalonesQuote from: XixaxMy life most closely resembled The Hollywood Knights. That is, if it were Drama club instead of a car club, and the music was 80's music instead of 60's. Oh, and leave out that part about the Vietnam war and stuff.
wow did you know anyone like newbomb turk ?
Oh, hell yes!
I'll not spend time reminiscing, but there was plenty of mooning, flaming dog shit, toilet paper and plastic forks in my high school days.
I generally don't like biographical movies on historical figures. I guess George Washington is about his childhood, right? How can there be an honest teenage movie based on a 200 year old figure? Times have changed, bud. People used to eat Big Macs in their cars.
Quote from: AlguienEstolamiPantalonesi was a kid when it came out, and well it was pretty fucking close
So you are saying, you raped that poor gurl? :shock:
Quote from: ebeamanI just hate that sarcastic, condescending stuff. Your not above me.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jofreeman.com%2Fimages%2Ffeminist.gif&hash=259117c838a4f5cb6fc2f836a3b6dc6a5b0ce103)
Quote from: Sigur RósQuote from: AlguienEstolamiPantalonesi was a kid when it came out, and well it was pretty fucking close
So you are saying, you raped that poor gurl? :shock:
nope that was somebody else, but i did steal 40's a lot , ahhh to be young and in need of beer
This thread still bothers me...
Ebeaman, please back up your statement to why you think Stand By Me fails as a film. Please try not to compare it to other films. Thank you...
aw
yes you are so right. if i watched Buffalo 66 when i was 7 years old i would have totally been blown away. :roll:
Stand By Me any day of the goddamn week.
Ebeaman, you there??
aw
Oh yea...sorry about that...missed it at first.
Um, yea...I suck at critiquing and reviewing movies...so I'll keep this short. I'll even pull a muscle and try not to ramble too much.
Honestly, there's not a whole lot I can say that other anti-fans of the movie have said but I'll elaborate upon it at least. Ok, above all, the kids are unlikable to me...mostly how mean they are. I mean, there's a lot of characters I like that are foul mouthed (I myself am) and all but what really got to me was all the hip (I guess) insults and everything. I mean, who am I to say that kids didn't really act like that in the 50's? I wasn't even alive then. But I'm not trying to attack its historical accuracy...I'm attacking how likable the kids are to ME. And to me, they are just as likable as the kids at my school...they fucking suck. The way they talk about fucking and everything reminds me too much of the kids at school. I can't stand the kids that talk too vulgar about girls. There's something I've never been able to get out of my head...I don't even know how I got it in my head, I didn't see it in a movie or read about it or anything...but somehow it got in there....let me get to the point...I can never get past the possibility that the girls that are getting talked about in such ways (verbally raped I like to say) could very well still be getting kissed goodnight by their fucking mommy and daddy. You know what I mean? Doesn't that scare you? I mean, that scares me. Call me sensitive but I fucking don't like it at all. And you can't tell me I'm SUPPOSE to dislike these kids...they're not villains...they're the good guys! They're the heroes! Well, I don't like them. Try to imagine watching the movie without any respect or liking for the kids...the main characters...it is impossible to like the movie as a whole.
Then there's the infamous vomiting scene...which isn't particulary gross (people throwing up in movies never has bothered me that much), it's just not funny. And it is a BIG BIG BIG LONG sequence, it's not just some itty bitty line or something...it's a fucking monster scene...it introduces a whole nother character it's so big. It's like the monolith in 2001 or something...only difference is...it's dumb. It's only revelant to the story through Gordie's "amazing" storytelling ability.
Last but not least...this is probably the most common bash the movie took...is its occasional schmaltz. It does drift into over sentimentality at times imo. I can't say this bothered me before it was brought up by other non-fans but looking back at it now...it does add a little to my disliking of it.
So, that's pretty much it. I do like Richard Dreyfuss. He was probably the one bright spot...he's a good actor...I have always liked him. Hope this clears it up a little. I know you weren't being a dick and I hope I didn't come off as one with this mini review. I know you just wanted a little backup on ALL that I have said and I hope I delivered.
Quote from: ebeamanI'm attacking how likable the kids are to ME. And to me, they are just as likable as the kids at my school...they fucking suck. The way they talk about fucking and everything reminds me too much of the kids at school. I can't stand the kids that talk too vulgar about girls. There's something I've never been able to get out of my head...I don't even know how I got it in my head, I didn't see it in a movie or read about it or anything...but somehow it got in there....let me get to the point...I can never get past the possibility that the girls that are getting talked about in such ways (verbally raped I like to say) could very well still be getting kissed goodnight by their fucking mommy and daddy. You know what I mean? Doesn't that scare you? I mean, that scares me. Call me sensitive but I fucking don't like it at all. And you can't tell me I'm SUPPOSE to dislike these kids...they're not villains...they're the good guys! They're the heroes! Well, I don't like them. Try to imagine watching the movie without any respect or liking for the kids...the main characters...it is impossible to like the movie as a whole.
What version did you watch? I don't remember any talk of them wanting to rape girls and have their way with them. They talk about dick sizes and such, and if they did mention something like that, they are talking out of their asses. They are close friends. It's like here if I were to rib mogwai or Dirk. Do you actually believe that these kids would do such a thing as rape? It's fine to defend women and acts of violence against them, but this is not the movie to be your example of and take a stand against that. I don't think your personal opinion if fair to the film or characters. They are not what you think they are. If you don't like the film because the other examples, then that's fine, you're entitled to that, but you are making these four guys out to be Alex's droogs.
Quote from: MacGuffin
What version did you watch? I don't remember any talk of them wanting to rape girls and have their way with them. They talk about dick sizes and such, and if they did mention something like that, they are talking out of their asses. They are close friends. It's like here if I were to rib mogwai or Dirk. Do you actually believe that these kids would do such a thing as rape? It's fine to defend women and acts of violence against them, but this is not the movie to be your example of and take a stand against that. I don't think your personal opinion if fair to the film or characters. They are not what you think they are. If you don't like the film because the other examples, then that's fine, you're entitled to that, but you are making these four guys out to be Alex's droogs.
I could swear there's a scene where they're talking about a group of women or something and which one they would fuck. I could swear it was this movie, I know it was. I wasn't trying to imply that they would rape, no. I was just saying that they remind me of kids at my school that fucking just might. I consider them to be sort of retro, toned down...while still insulting versions of the kids at my school. And I'm very uncomfortable trying to identify with them and even more uncomfortable trying to sympathize with them. I know they're not the droogs but they're pretty damn insulting to me...I mean, they're kids...to me, kids aren't like that. As I said, there's kids in school that are like that, I'm not naive (I'm not going to pretend like they're not there) but that's just a group (a cult really)...that's a bad bunch of kids, the kind your supposed to avoid. The ones that do drugs and as I said, are or would-be potential rapists or criminals of some sort. I don't care for a movie that wants to potray kids like the kids in Stand By Me as heroes. Kids that age can be HORNY or IMMATURE (of course) or maybe a little GROSS...but for christ's sake, off set that shit with a FEW likable traits...I mean, come on...that's all I ask. I'm watching a movie here. I'm not going to the family reunion slapping a fake smile on my face while the little kids run around screaming and raising all hell from the ground up to my head and giving me a migraine. I want to be entertained. I gotta have at least a couple characters that are entertaining to watch.
Quote from: ebeamanI mean, they're kids...to me, kids aren't like that.
Quote from: ebeamanAs I said, there's kids in school that are like that
:yabbse-huh:
Well, Ebs, I don't particularily like Stand By Me either... but some of that kid stuff you're talking about... you mean to tell me that you never shot the shit with a friend where you talked about fooling around with a hot chick? I mean, we all do it. And don't think the young girls are so inoocent either. A lot of EARLY teen chicks are hella sexually active. See that used to be my problem, I thought all the guys were bad, and the women were so pure, but now I realize they want all sorts of shit just like we do. I don't think that's the problem with the film. I think you hit the nail more on the head with the puking scene. It might be cool to some people, but it just strikes some of the rest of us as dumb, and not at all entertaining.
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: ebeamanI mean, they're kids...to me, kids aren't like that.
Quote from: ebeamanAs I said, there's kids in school that are like that
:yabbse-huh:
Well the kids I was talking about are 16-17...how old are they in Stand By Me? They're definitely younger.
Quote from: SoNowThenWell, Ebs, I don't particularily like Stand By Me either... but some of that kid stuff you're talking about... you mean to tell me that you never shot the shit with a friend where you talked about fooling around with a hot chick? I mean, we all do it. And don't think the young girls are so inoocent either. A lot of EARLY teen chicks are hella sexually active. See that used to be my problem, I thought all the guys were bad, and the women were so pure, but now I realize they want all sorts of shit just like we do. I don't think that's the problem with the film. I think you hit the nail more on the head with the puking scene. It might be cool to some people, but it just strikes some of the rest of us as dumb, and not at all entertaining.
Oh yea, I mean, yea...it's cool when it's just like "oh, she's fucking hot" or "damn, she's got a nice ass" or something...but there's a point when I do step out of the conversation when it gets too much for me. I mean, I'm VERY tame talking about women. I'm guess it sounds a little prude in that way but I don't know. I'm just very resistant. So like when they start talking about things that you just don't talk about unless you know the girl...that I don't care to listen to. Like talking about what they would DO to her and stuff...that can be a little much even. I don't know. I may be too sensitive with all that...I've been told that I am. But I don't think it's such a horrible thing to be sensitive about. It's naive either. It's just complicated.
Actually, Ebs, I'm glad there's guys like you around. Maybe then some kids can actually stay kids, instead of turning into little fucking world cynics like so many do. It's just a sad fact of life that so many "kids" are fucked up foul minded pricks with not an innocent ideal in them. I was sorta one. Still am. Don't know what's worse. When I was naive I was happier, but always confused. Now, the more I know, the more horrifying absolutely everything about everyday is.
Quote from: dufresneyes you are so right. if i watched Buffalo 66 when i was 7 years old i would have totally been blown away. :roll:
Stand By Me any day of the goddamn week.
haha. word.
this is a great thread. however, i don't see the logic that the picture sucks just because none of us have a similar real-life experience to share?
on a somewhat related note...i think one of the reasons i love
kids so much was that [besides not being amazingly different from my adolecensce] was that not a single character in the film "found" themselves. no resolution whatsoever.
stand by me 100% @ rotten tomatoes
while i will say that i really like stand by me, i will also say that the puking scene makes me cringe, not because its gross - no, its so over the top you cant think its gross - but because....what the fuck?
but i do think the movie is quite affecting, and i fucking love richard dreyfuss.
Yes, but Richard Dreyfuss is hardly a plus for the movie considering he's in it for not five minutes, I'd say. And ebeaman, I've gotta say, at first, I had a knee-jerk reaction to this thread, thinking "what nerve," you knocking this film and all. I had just seen it, because there was something I was working on that was just barely, in the remotest way possible, related to Stand by Me, and I thought it was a good young adolescent movie. But you've gotten me to reevaluate that, and look at my opinion of the film again. Because you do raise a lot of good points which I tend to agree with.
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaYes, but Richard Dreyfuss is hardly a plus for the movie considering he's in it for not five minutes, I'd say.
but he does narrate it, and that's good enough for me!
Ebeaman:QuoteUm, yea...I suck at critiquing and reviewing movies...so I'll keep this short. I'll even pull a muscle and try not to ramble too much.
I appreciate your response. I'm also a bit unsure of my analytical skills, and try not to say too much that I might trip myself up.
I can understand your points (the schmaltzy blahblahblah) and can understand why you dislike the film. But there are just a few things that I'd like to bring up in return.
QuoteI could swear there's a scene where they're talking about a group of women or something and which one they would fuck.
If I'm reading you right, you're talking about the Mickey Mouse Club conversation, saying "Annette" has big tits, blahblahblah. I guess my view of the scene was some vulgar, barely pubescent kids talking about a girl on television they cannot have. Rape is definitely not a possible implication of their vulgar speeches.
QuoteI don't care for a movie that wants to potray kids like the kids in Stand By Me as heroes. Kids that age can be HORNY or IMMATURE (of course) or maybe a little GROSS...but for christ's sake, off set that shit with a FEW likable traits.
What is there to dislike about Gordon's character. He is a sensitive and talented kid who cannot stop hanging around the hangdog losers.
What about Chris Chambers? He realizes Gordie's talent and is playfully jealous. And you're told he became successful although he is stereotyped as a delinquet. Vern's character is cowardly but likable; his weakness is endearing. And Teddy, although he's probably the least likable of the four, has the moment with the junkyard man about his father, "the loony". I find these more than sufficient to believe in these characters.
Regardless, it seems you dislike the movie because it reminded you of people you don't like or agree with, which is totally understandable. It is good that there are some highschoolers mantaining a modicum of innocence out there. Thanks for responding...
aw