There Will Be Blood - now with child/partner forum we call H.W.

Started by depooter, March 27, 2005, 02:24:56 PM

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tpfkabi

Quote from: martinthewarrior on June 18, 2007, 09:21:22 PM
I thought it came across in my post that, I too, had a Baptist upbringing. I think I came out ok. Even so, I didn't enjoy the experience. Don't be so uptight, my man.

ah, so now that i revealed that you automatically assume that i'm uptight?
why, i never!
:yabbse-grin:
ha, man, i took it with a grain of salt.
unlike the cliche' i actually try to "judge not, less ye be judged."

but back on topic, I thought of Leone, too, but that really had to do with the trains and time period only. PTA's going to have some massive crane shots over train depots before i really think Leone...


and a big bussomed Cardinale-esque hottie....
I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away.

tpfkabi

GT, are you referring to PDL as lifting from Tati or from someone else?

I think Paul mentioned Tati himself (didn't he?), but PDL is not like any Tati films really imo.

Now, Couch was pretty Tati if i remember correctly.
I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away.

Pubrick

under the paving stones.

noyes

funny how it works out..
i started watching this trailer and at first didn't instantly get excited for the movie. which got me worried.
after a good 30 seconds, all the PTAisms and the cinematography and his total sense of direction came to the forefront.
and by the end, it made me wish it was out next week.
can't wait.
south america's my name.

modage

Quote from: noyes on June 19, 2007, 08:00:38 AM
and by the end, it made me wish it was out next week.
next week?  who can wait till then!?  what kind of superfan are you?
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

noyes

south america's my name.

Gold Trumpet

Quote from: bigideas on June 18, 2007, 10:48:09 PM
GT, are you referring to PDL as lifting from Tati or from someone else?

I think Paul mentioned Tati himself (didn't he?), but PDL is not like any Tati films really imo.

Now, Couch was pretty Tati if i remember correctly.

PDL wasn't Tati in jokes and set up, but it was Tati in composition. The story and themes were unique, but the film marginalized itself by having his influence everywhere.

tpfkabi

Quote from: The Gold Trumpet on June 19, 2007, 02:29:25 PM
Quote from: bigideas on June 18, 2007, 10:48:09 PM
GT, are you referring to PDL as lifting from Tati or from someone else?

I think Paul mentioned Tati himself (didn't he?), but PDL is not like any Tati films really imo.

Now, Couch was pretty Tati if i remember correctly.

PDL wasn't Tati in jokes and set up, but it was Tati in composition. The story and themes were unique, but the film marginalized itself by having his influence everywhere.

can you be more specific?
the most Tati thing to me (that i can think of now without seeing PDL in so long) is at the beginning when Barry is alone and he's walking and it's pitch dark and you hear the squeak of his shoes.

the signature Tati thing to me is some kind of shot where the camera is aimed at one structure, unmoving, and Tati and/or other actors create comedy by moving in and out of that space. the main ones i can think of now - in either Hulot or Mon Oncle where you see the house and the camera just observes as he walks by windows, down stairs, and then in Playtime where the camera observes outside the apartments with huge windows.
I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away.

Ghostboy

Yeah, there was a lot more of, say, Shoot The Piano Player than there was Tati.

samsong

let's not forget the long goodbye.  and while we're pointing this shit out, i loved the night of the hunter stuff.

i agree with gt about the tati influence on punch-drunk love but i don't feel like it marginalized the film by any means.  the sound of shoes squeaking could be a tati reference but it isn't specific enough; maybe tati was on the mind but it seems more subconscious relative to the deliberateness anderson composes his shots with.  to me, tati is most evident in just about every scene in the warehouse--the cold modernity of industry, monochromatic color schemes vs. the bleeding, saturated colors in hawaii, spatial/physical comedy (ie luis guzman testing demonstrating the plungers for clients in the far background).  also the minimal dialogue. 

Stefen

Is there a QT version? I want to make a gif of the shot where the camer races over and then up to watch the oil spring. Pure PTA right there.
Falling in love is the greatest joy in life. Followed closely by sneaking into a gated community late at night and firing a gun into the air.

Gold Trumpet

I knew there were other influences to PDL than just Tati. The problem for me is that I hadn't seen those films mentioned so I do need to see them before I can comment. But I still think my argument stands. My referencing Tati is just an example.

My original argument is that compared to Magnolia and Boogie Nights, Punch-Drunk Love has references that override the story. It forms the shape of the story and guides the characters. They don't exist as freely as they do in Boogie Nights and Magnolia. Those films are based closer to drama. Punch-Drunk Love is the film experiment.

I think PDL is good and fine, but its ceiling for its ambition is limited. I think greater heights are to be reached with what Boogie Nights and Magnolia do.

tpfkabi

Quote from: The Gold Trumpet on June 20, 2007, 03:46:03 PM
I knew there were other influences to PDL than just Tati. The problem for me is that I hadn't seen those films mentioned so I do need to see them before I can comment. But I still think my argument stands. My referencing Tati is just an example.

My original argument is that compared to Magnolia and Boogie Nights, Punch-Drunk Love has references that override the story. It forms the shape of the story and guides the characters. They don't exist as freely as they do in Boogie Nights and Magnolia. Those films are based closer to drama. Punch-Drunk Love is the film experiment.

I think PDL is good and fine, but its ceiling for its ambition is limited. I think greater heights are to be reached with what Boogie Nights and Magnolia do.

i'm def not saying you are wrong, i'm just wanting more specifics like "this scene in PDL references this scene in this Tati film," etc.

PDL's form seems so New Wave to me.
I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away.

killafilm

Not gonna lie, first thing I thought of was Days of Heaven.  Regardless it looks fanfuckingtastic.  Doubt it will be as influenced as say Marie Antoinette. 

Gold Trumpet

Quote from: bigideas on June 20, 2007, 04:18:16 PM
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet on June 20, 2007, 03:46:03 PM
I knew there were other influences to PDL than just Tati. The problem for me is that I hadn't seen those films mentioned so I do need to see them before I can comment. But I still think my argument stands. My referencing Tati is just an example.

My original argument is that compared to Magnolia and Boogie Nights, Punch-Drunk Love has references that override the story. It forms the shape of the story and guides the characters. They don't exist as freely as they do in Boogie Nights and Magnolia. Those films are based closer to drama. Punch-Drunk Love is the film experiment.

I think PDL is good and fine, but its ceiling for its ambition is limited. I think greater heights are to be reached with what Boogie Nights and Magnolia do.

i'm def not saying you are wrong, i'm just wanting more specifics like "this scene in PDL references this scene in this Tati film," etc.

PDL's form seems so New Wave to me.

it seems french new wave to me, too. I regret lopsiding my comparison to one filmmaker, but to explain...

In Tati, the focus of the character was from afar and focused on his physical handicaps with the world around him. I think a similar touch is applied in Punch-Drunk Love. Some shots are close ups, but most shots are static shots from afar that isolate Barry Egan from everyone else and make his mannerisms and awkwardness the subject of the film's approach.

In some ways, this could be argued as what defined Chaplin as well, but I think there is a difference. The character of Monsieur Hulot has little semblance with a real character. Chaplin's Little Tramp really did. I think Barry Egan is a mixture of the little tramp and Hulot. Someone of Barry Egan's shyness and awakwardness can exist, but it would not be trumped up in such a heightened way. Egan's actions skid on believability a lot of times and frankly cross over into unbelievity.

Also, one has to consider the times both filmmakers existed in. Chaplin's character was considered realistic for its time. Chaplin was applauded for putting real sentiments into a genre that most people considered had absolutely none. When Bernard Shaw was asked why film lacked qualities of realism and deep feelings, he simply said "incompetence". Film has evolved and by the time Tati made the Hulot films, his choice to make Hulot unrealistic was a stylistic choice. As far as Chaplin knew, he was doing the very best one could to do add realism to what could have been a stock figure in a bad comedy.

So when PTA made PDL, he was also making a choice in how to portray Barry Egan. In chaplin's day it would just be assumed the characterization would be one way. By the time Tati came around, choices were available. Tati surrounded the film with a style and filmmaking scheme that is closer to PDL. If Anderson rid the film of its stylistic approach and just focused on the character of Barry Egan, the influence would be more Chaplin.