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godardian made me this huge 3-disc comp. of music in this category. I felt like sharing my thoughts as they pop up.  Sorry if I'm boring.

- "Get Wrecked at Home" is a fantastic b-side.  It just might be my favorite track on the comp thusfar.  Something very late-era Beatles about it, but so syrupy, so alienated.  Stunning production.  Only an excellent album would be able to spare this one.

- "Brutality," a BBR b-side.  Was that a cover?  Hmmm....

- Selections from BBR's Facts of Life: I'd say I was initially grabbed by about half of these.  "The English Motorway System" and "The Facts of Life," especially.

...more as I continue on through it....

- "England Made Me" - so Wall-era Pink Floyd, in its off-kilter way (or does it sound like "Learning to Fly"?).  I heard this song years ago on a Jetset comp. and it made me remember its name.

- "Child Psychology" - I think I heard this one before, too.  Brutal.  Pretty and brutal.

- First couple tracks from After Murder Park:  whoa.  Strange.  This may take some getting used to.  Not what I was expecting.  "Land Lovers" kinda sounds like The Coral.  Odd.

It can definitely be said of Mr. Haines's work: The more it changes, the more it stays the same. Thematically, at least. A little paranoia, a little misanthropy, a little social-critic savagery. Add a hint of music-geekdom and a dash of class-consciousness, and serve ice-cold. Ahh, refreshing.

"Brutality" isn't a cover... the only covers BBR has done are "Rock 'n Roll Suicide" (which I think is a beautiful version, from the John Peel show), "Seasons in the Sun" (!), the giant UK seventies hit "Up Town Top Ranking" in a sinister, slowed-down version, and an obscurity called "Lord Lucan is Missing."

Glad you're enjoying, Mesh. You're the board's resident muso, so it'll be interesting to hear your takes. So many Pink Floyd comparisons already, though! :?

Anyone else wants a copy of this comp, PM me where to send it and I'm willing to get a copy to you.  Nothing would make me happier than seeing Luke Haines get the discussion and attention he so richly deserves. With his various projects and pseudonyms, he's like a post-mod Phil Spector, a pop maestro with an agenda.

Mesh claims Haines stuff sounds like Pink Floyd and sometimes like Steely Dan (I've heard anything by SD, so I withhold comment for now).

The influences Haines acknowledges: The Adverts, The Fall, Nirvana (!). He claimed his solo stuff sounded like "Kraftwerk meets Steve Harley." Big non-musical influences: Lenny Bruce, Rudolph Valentino, and Situationism (if you read Greil Marcus's Lipstrick Traces, you really get a picture of how Haines has this impulse in common with The Sex Pistols).

Other unacknowledged influences I hear: The Smiths, Bowie (what with the "Rock 'n Roll Suicide" cover) and Bolan, Velvet Underground, Pulp, Air (on BBR), Dylan (on early Auteurs).

He's long had a withering opinion of the public obsession with the royal family; on tour in 2000, as a deliciously pointed satirical gesture, Black Box Recorder always took the stage to the thundering sound of Elton John's "English Rose" version of "Candle in the Wind" cranked up to 10 on the PA.

Quote from: godardianMesh claims Haines stuff sounds like Pink Floyd and sometimes like Steely Dan (I've heard anything by SD, so I withhold comment for now).

The Pink Floyd I hear only in spots, and more in BBR than in the rest.  As for Steely Dan: LH/A/BBR sound nothing like them, I just see a similar musical syrup to lyrical salt ratio.  Tha's all.

Quote from: godardianOther unacknowledged influences I hear: The Smiths, Bowie (what with the "Rock 'n Roll Suicide" cover) and Bolan...

I've heard all of these in what I've heard so far....to some extent.

Nirvana?

Quote from: godardian...the board's resident muso....

Well.  Only if you mean "muso" in the sense of "someone who knows a lot about popular Western music."

I'm used to "muso" meaning "musician"—and I'm only a passable drummer at best.

Quote from: Mesh

Quote from: godardian

Nirvana?

He probably meant the Steve Albini connection. Though some of the earlier Auteurs stuff (esp. off Now I'm a Cowboy) has some pretty loud/dirty guitar.

- "Kenneth Anger's Bad Dream" - On first listen, thumbs down.  Maybe I'm missing something lyrical.  Or I just don't get it.  Eh.

- "Lenny Valentino" - This, though, I like.  Like The Smiths meets Iron Maiden or something (that guitar just almost goes metal).  I figured I might be partial to the early Auteurs stuff......Onward.

- "I'm a Rich Man's Toy" - I'm calling this song "Pet Shop Pixies" from now on.  Interesting.  Very interesting.  This Auteurs stuff will grow on me—surely.

Also, I'm now starting to hear that obtuse Dylan influence.....

- The Baader Meinhof stuff - On a strictly sonic level, this might be my favorite section of the comp.  I like the spacious, varied arrangements; also, the mixed media feel (rock guitar, strings, electro beats, etc.) is appealing to me.  Production is uniformly excellent, too.  Some of this has a almost goofy, They Might Be Giants feel to it (say, the second version of "Baader Meinhof").  I mean that in a good way.

Quote from: Mesh- "Kenneth Anger's Bad Dream" - On first listen, thumbs down.  Maybe I'm missing something lyrical.  Or I just don't get it.  Eh.

- "Lenny Valentino" - This, though, I like.  Like The Smiths meets Iron Maiden or something (that guitar just almost goes metal).  I figured I might be partial to the early Auteurs stuff......Onward.

- "I'm a Rich Man's Toy" - I'm calling this song "Pet Shop Pixies" from now on.  Interesting.  Very interesting.  This Auteurs stuff will grow on me—surely.

Also, I'm now starting to hear that obtuse Dylan influence.....

The "Lucifer Rising" bit is the only thing directly to do with Anger in the song, maybe... though the whole thing, the horror of "the man outside who wants to tear the fan club down" seems to speak of a "serious" vs. "pop" confrontation, and of course 'ol Ken was always on the side of the fan clubs and gossip pages. I like the relaxed, narrative tone, though... esp. the strings. Definitely not their best song, though.

Speaking of which, who could that star-fixated man (c. 1993, when he was apparently just a lad who smoked way too many cigarettes- could that rasp really be emanating from that baby face? These days, he looks much more the evil Eurotrash genius, with his balding stark-bleached-blonde hair and impeccable suits) in my latest avatar be?

So, when one is familiarized with the Haines catalog and one knows that I consider him the premier pop artiste of our time, what does one recommend I familiarize myself with that might have a similar appeal? Especially when one is a muso (a term I use to mean someone whose knowledge and analysis of music ascends to gloriously obsessive and thorough levels, even though I know it means "technically proficient musician" when it comes down to it)

Quote from: godardianSo, when one is familiarized with the Haines catalog and one knows that I consider him the premier pop artiste of our time, what does one recommend I familiarize myself with that might have a similar appeal?

Our time:  I'll go with 80s/90s/00s.

Pop artistes:  A subject I'm not at all ready to call myself "expert" in; it's not really an area I'm too good at making recommendations in.  But I'll try to name a few I haven't seen much of in this or other xixax.com music threads....

- David Bryne/Talking Heads
- Joy Division/New Order
- Bjork
- Will Oldham/Palace/Bonnie "Prince" Billy (I mention him because I remember you mentioning Arab Strap somewhere....)

Or were you hoping for some far-lesser-knowns?

Quote from: Mesh

Quote from: godardian

Or were you hoping for some far-lesser-knowns?

Maybe... I'm pretty familiar with all the ones you mentioned and have at least one release by them (if not approaching their whole catalog, as with Joy Division/New Order).

Quote from: godardianMaybe...[some lesser knowns would be good]

This is far-left-field (and also pre-80s), but:

Have you heard any of Brian Eno's solo pop music?

Quote from: Mesh

Quote from: godardianMaybe...[some lesser knowns would be good]

This is far-left-field (and also pre-80s), but:

Have you heard any of Brian Eno's solo pop music?

Oh, absolutely. I LOVE it, especially Warm Jets and Taking Tiger Mountain. Thought of using some stuff from Music for Films in one of my shorts a la Todd Haynes in Safe. I got turned onto Eno by Morrissey name-drops, the Bauhaus cover of "Third Uncle," and some of the songs in Velvet Goldmine.

Fave Eno song: "Some of Them Are Old." Or maybe "By This River" (another very cinematic one stolen from me by Nanni Moretti in The Son's Room).

Maybe I have already mined this vein of music as far as it can go... I keep meaning to try Ladytron (just for the Roxy Music connection), but I wonder... I find the Eels just so-so... Nothing else pops into my head right at the moment.

I sent the legendary 3-disc comp to another board member, so hopefully we'll have another person joining the discussion soon. Meantime, recap: Now that the dust has settled from your explosive and elongated introduction to this man and his world (in music), what were the most standout tracks? And why?

Quote from: godardianNow that the dust has settled from your explosive and elongated introduction to this man and his world (in music), what were the most standout tracks? And why?

After one listen to some four hours of material, I'm still struggling to keep the variety of excellent impressions I had straight.

I can say this though:  "The English Motorway System" kills me.  Just plain works.  The phased beats up against that blue-soul guitar just frame the song's travel meditation so well.  Here's the line:  "The English Motorway System is beautiful and strange...."  Yes.  Concept and content meet so effectively.

Since this thread has been a little bit quiet, I thought I'd post this delightful snapshot of a 1994 Auteurs t-shirt (the one on the lower right hand is the Now I'm a Cowboy cover).

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ive only listened to disc 1 of godardians compilation so far. i think what i like the most is his voice. it sounds... not creepy or evil, but menacing nonetheless (maybe HE can play willy wonka). at this point i prefer his work with the auteurs, especially "rubettes" and "how i learned to love the bootboys." the more i listen to the songs on disc 1, the more i like them, but these 2 especially stand out.

i like the lyrics, especially when theyre at their most cynical ("where did the sad songs go?/ They've faded far too low inside my radio"... genius). im looking forward to disc 2 and i encourage everyone to at least check out a few songs by either haines, the auteurs or black box recorder.

also, judging from godardians avatar, hes really cute too.

Quote from: cecil b. demented...at this point i prefer his work with the auteurs, especially "rubettes" and "how i learned to love the bootboys."

Both standouts for me, too.

Quote from: cecil b. dementedive only listened to disc 1 of godardians compilation so far. i think what i like the most is his voice. it sounds... not creepy or evil, but menacing nonetheless (maybe HE can play willy wonka). at this point i prefer his work with the auteurs, especially "rubettes" and "how i learned to love the bootboys." the more i listen to the songs on disc 1, the more i like them, but these 2 especially stand out.

i like the lyrics, especially when theyre at their most cynical ("where did the sad songs go?/ They've faded far too low inside my radio"... genius). im looking forward to disc 2 and i encourage everyone to at least check out a few songs by either haines, the auteurs or black box recorder.

also, judging from godardians avatar, hes really cute too.

I think "The Rubettes" is my favorite Auteurs single. But How I Learned to Love the Bootboys is definitely a transitional album between Haines's earlier, more "organic"-sounding stuff, and the crystallized-sugar pop sound he later developed with Black Box Recorder and his solo records, so it's a VERY uneven album. Definitely some throwaways on that one, IMO. "The Rubettes" is excellent, though.

I think he's an excellent, excellent lyricist. Evocative and funny and curmudgeonly and political and personal and sad all at once.

Do continue to let us know what you make of the tunes as you delve backwards, Cecil!

As for the cuteness, I fully agree, with a caveat: The avatar is VERY early, circa 1993. He was a baby. His look has evolved over the years:

A Black Box Recorder gig in '98:

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These days:

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well, since godardian, mesh and myself are the only ones to post in this thread, i must assume that we are the only non-squares of the whole board.

now then, i listened to disc 2 and enjoyed it more than disc 1. i love the black box recorder tracks, and the after murder park, back with the killer and now ima  cowboy songs.

"life is unfair/ kill yourself or get over it" maybe the nirvana influence is more in the lyrics than the actual music.

[ ed 07/21/2003 in the UK:

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....this appears to be a Great Rock 'n Roll Swindle-type "greatest hits" comp, including a smattering of Auteurs hits "redone" (?) w/ strings, and three brand-spanking new songs: "Satan Wants Me," "Michael Powell," and "Bugger Bognor."  

The cover looks like Eno's Before and After Science.

I'm guessing this is a contract-fulfillment record. His long-time label for his Auteurs, solo, and Baader Meinhof identities, Hut Records (Black Box Recorder has been on Chyrsalis, Nude, and One Little Indian, respectively), was acquired by corporate behemoth Virgin midway through (I think- maybe they were Virgin-associated all along) and they've woefully underpromoted every release. Not being one to get along with record labels anyway, I'd imagine he just wants out at this point.

I have my copy pre-ordered, of course.

i just listened to black box recorders passionoia. a big change in style. this is great electronica/dance music. recommended by me, cecil b

A link to Luke's record company site, which was updated for the release of Das Capital:

http://www.lukehaines.net/

You can also hear the "Das Capital Medley" playing here...

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There is Only One Luke Haines

Why did you choose to re-record all the songs off "Das Capital" with an orchestra, rather than just use the original versions?

Well, when the record company initially wanted to put out a retrospective, I was a bit sniffy. One of the things I have against such compilations is that when you take songs from different albums, it just doesn't work sonically...it sounds wrong, almost like a bunch of dismembered limbs! So I approached them and told them that I would prefer re-recording the songs with an orchestra, and they liked the idea. That to me solved the problem of streamlining the songs.

So it was mainly for continuity reasons?

Definitely. It also gives the songs a different spin. I was inspired by artists such as Jacques Brel, who would often re-record his own songs. So I'm also harking back to an age of classic songwriting.

Do you wish that you'd recorded them this way the first time round?

Oh yeah, I think every new version is superior - but then again, I would say that! When you're doing your first record, you don't necessarily have the experience to arrange a lot of strings - and I mean a good string arrangement, not just schmaltz. But now, with the budget and the experience, I was able to write succinct arrangements.

How long did the whole thing take?

The recording took about five to six weeks...it was quite tricky, everything
had to be arranged and put into notation. They weren't just vamping!

When looking back on your career, do you have any regrets, or feel that you've ever made mistakes?

Not at all - I don't even see it as a career. I'm an artist, not a careerist. If I were a careerist I would've given up years ago. With Black Box Recorder for instance, we recorded on three different labels. A careerist would have just rolled over, but I'm an artist so I just write more songs. There is a distinct difference. It doesn't take me 3 years to make an album, for example.

Has putting "Das Capital" together made you think differently about the songs?

Yeah. "Showgirl" is a song that I wouldn't or couldn't write these days. I do think it's a great song, but I could only have written in my early twenties. I'm 35 now, I can't and I won't write songs like that nowadays. I'm just in a different mindset. I couldn't begin a song with "I took a showgirl for my bride" anymore -re-recording it was like doing a cover version! Which is good, actually, because I think all songwriting is artifice. I don't believe in cutting my wrists just to show my pain and suffering.
Is it like shedding skin?
It's been a while since I've done that! Yes, something like that, it's just a different type of song really. A lot of the songs on this record are ones I wouldn't write now.
Tell us about "Bugger Bognor", one of the new songs you wrote for the album.
Well, I was going for a different slant at the end of the album. "Bugger Bognor" were the famous last words of George IV, and to write a song about that sounded really appealing, like I was about to retire! I'm not, of course, which makes it all the more fun. It plays with the idea that you shouldn't be remembered just for your last words - especially if they're "Bugger Bognor"!
 
Have you heard the Valentinos' cover of "Lenny Valentino"?

I haven't seen it, no. I've been told it exists, but I don't have a computer! I hear they're Russian, which is good - they're entering the free market economy in style.

The Auteurs have long been heralded as the founders of Britpop - how do you feel about that?

I don't think that's actually been the case... there's been a sort of Stalinist revisionism with the whole Britpop thing. Apparently the new assumption is that the first Britpop album was "Modern Life Is Rubbish" by Blur. This may be nit-picking, but that album was released in '93, a year after the Auteurs' first album. So for the record, that was the first Britpop album! But the thing is, "New Wave" was written in a vacuum, created apart from my contemporaries. No-one else wanted to write in an English way, with a British stance. And by the time Britpop really took off, I'd moved on from it all...in the mid-90's I was recording with Steve Albini and making Baader-Meinhof. Blur and the others were writing songs about chip shops and greyhounds and steam trains.

Is it possible to produce something in a vacuum?

Yeah, I've never really listened to what's going on around me. I was as uninterested in my contemporaries then as I am now. Jonathan Richman and the Kinks were my influences, and the Fall and stuff like that. None of that was very relevant back then.

Are you disappointed that the Auteurs never got the commercial recognition they deserved?

No, it would've affected other things - I wouldn't have done Black Box Recorder or the solo albums. it would've affected the progress of my records. It's well-documented that the second Auteurs album is my least favourite, mainly because it was the most commercially successful! It had a very commercial sound, and sold well in America. I like it a lot, it's just not my favourite. You know, when you're young, you don't really have a plan for your second album - it's that old saying, 'you've got 20 years to write your first album, and six months to write the second'.

Do you feel you've changed over the years? Have you mellowed out?

Well I've definitely changed, but as for mellowing out, absolutely not! My modus operandi has changed, and I'm less snotty with record companies. I used to be convinced the whole music business was against me, so I guess I'm less paranoid too! I haven't mellowed out though, far from it.

How successful do you think your 'pop strike' was a couple of years back?

I think it was unsuccessful, because I wanted it to be. People said "this is good, I'm really behind this", and I was like, "hang on, this is my idea, I'm the only one who can call a Pop Strike"! It was just meant to be a gag, but in a slow news month it's surprising how things take off. I ended up on the Today Programme, right after John Major and Margaret Thatcher! It was funny, though, and soon after there were complaints about the Today Programme dumbing down!

What were you trying to achieve with your 1997 project, 'Baader-Meinhof'?

At the time, I went for a complete whitewash. I just wanted to celebrate the Baader-Meinhof gang, and to glorify the iconography of terrorism. Everyone knows that the iconography of terrorism is pretty close to that of pop music. I decided to write a cartoon rock album about a serious story, and I still stand by that record.

Do you think many people got the joke?

Oh yeah, I'm sure people saw it as far more than just reportage. It played around with fact and fiction. I picked the Baader-Meinhof gang mainly because they'd completely disbanded by that time, and weren't really associated with anything. They were idiots, which made it all the more great, like a cartoon romp.

Do you think if you hadn't gotten into the music industry you might have gone down that road?

Ha, become a terrorist?! No, I'd have to align myself with a cause, and I could never do that!

You've released albums as The Auteurs, Luke Haines, Black Box Recorder and Baader-Meinhof...How does the songwriting process differ with each project?

With my own songs, it's really nobody else's business. By that I mean that whoever plays on it gets told note-for-note what to play. Black Box Recorder is more democratic, as myself and John write the music for Sarah to sing over. She has the power of veto, of course, you have to make collaborative projects work.

Which track on "Das Capital" are you the most happy about?

"Michael Powell", because it's really ambitious, and "Satan Wants Me". I do quite like the intro medley, it's a hidden track, you have to spool back to hear it...I like all the ambitious ones. The ones that made it by the skin of their teeth!

Finally, what's next for Luke Haines?

A long-term project that will reveal itself! It's something to do with the live stage, and will run from the end of August onwards...I'm not revealing any more!

A close friend of mine who lives in Portland is doing a blog project this year in which he analyzes one album a week; the album has to have something to do with his past or current life, and that's the only criterion for inclusion, so the range is pretty interesting.

This week, he invited me to select an album we both have been affected by and do a collaboration on the blog entry. I chose After Murder Park by The Auteurs. For anyone who's interested, it's here (http://confessions123.blogspot.com/).

To be released lundi, le trente octobre:

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Visit the Luke Haines site here. (http://www.lukehaines.co.uk/)

Visit Luke Haines's MySpace page here. (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=43581838&MyToken=5d846282-9e8a-45ed-81e6-5fc5946a0e26)

Does anyone have the Luke Haines is dead boxset they can upload for me? I've had it dling for literally 2 months but no seeds. I got tons of stuff I can upload for trade.