Dune (Denis Villeneuve)

Started by Capote, September 15, 2019, 04:59:02 AM

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jviness02

#30
October 23, 2021, 01:47:32 PM
Fellowship definitely has a satisfying conclusion in and of itself. It ends with a big battle that breaks up the fellowship in multiple ways. Totally makes sense. Also, they filmed all three films at the same time, so we know the story continues. The fact that a lot of sources close to WB aren't very confident Dune will make the money to guarantee a sequel definitely added a psychological aspect to my viewing where I was like "well if that's it, that sucks".

HACKANUT

#31
October 23, 2021, 02:15:57 PM
The narrative that there isn't gonna be a sequel is ridiculous at this point. When asked about the sequel the CEO of HBO recently said something to the effect of "if you see how the film ends, it's pretty obvious what the answer to that question is."
It's doing well with critics, it's doing well at the box office already, there's a tv show on the way, denis is working on the part 2 script right now...
Nothing seems iffy about that to me.

So with that in mind, we know there's more story coming.

Honestly I think a part of their marketing strategy is to make it seem iffy publicly to drive people to the theaters to vote with their dollar, so to speak.

jviness02

#32
October 23, 2021, 02:30:05 PM
There was a show for Blade Runner 2049, critics liked it, it made $260 Million dollars, Scott and Villeneuve were working on a sequel...and it was deemed a flop and everything in the future was canceled. Right now, Dune is on track to make about the same amount of money on a similar budget. I'm not convinced.

HACKANUT

#33
October 23, 2021, 02:38:25 PM
That's fair. I remain optimistic tho. I think they're looking to build a franchise and are willing to take a hit on the first movie to get it off the ground. They said as much about the recent Sopranos movie. It didn't do great numbers in theaters but Sopranos is back in the top 10 on MAX and they're already talking about doing more prequel stuff based on this.

jviness02

#34
October 23, 2021, 03:07:28 PM
Quote from: HACKANUT on October 23, 2021, 02:38:25 PM
That's fair. I remain optimistic tho. I think they're looking to build a franchise and are willing to take a hit on the first movie to get it off the ground. They said as much about the recent Sopranos movie. It didn't do great numbers in theaters but Sopranos is back in the top 10 on MAX and they're already talking about doing more prequel stuff based on this.

I hope you're right. I'm not trying to be overly pessimistic. Also, you are right that Dune is a better "franchise" builder than 2049. The only reason I compared the two is it's the same director doing a big budget sci-fi film.

Regarding the film itself:


Oops. I don't know how to post spoilers

HACKANUT

#35
October 23, 2021, 03:17:06 PM
It's a completely fair comparison. But I do think we're looking at a different industry than 2049 was faced with.

Back then they ruled with box office power. In 2021 they must cultivate streaming power.😎

For spoilers use the "Sp" icon, I wanna hear what you've got to say!

Jeremy Blackman

#36
October 23, 2021, 03:34:34 PM
Yeah, click the on top, or copy this:

Code Select
[spoiler]text[/spoiler]

Jeremy Blackman

#37
October 23, 2021, 04:27:19 PM
Just briefly on the sequel greenlight question... Dune has so many advantages over 2049. It's providing value on Warner Media's streaming service. It's already more of an "event" than 2049 ever was. It has franchise potential, prequel potential, spinoff potential. The sequel has Zendaya potential, a resource studios are eager to mine.

Also the movie is straightforwardly a success so far:

'Dune' Seeing $17.5M Opening Day, Best For Warner Bros HBO Max Day/Date Title & Denis Villeneuve

Another Deadline article says Dune will cross $200M worldwide on Sunday. Not bad for also being on HBO Max, torrents, etc.

Quote from: WorldForgot on October 23, 2021, 11:23:14 AMRebecca Ferguson iz gonna get a nom for this right? It sorta feelz like she's the mana here.

For sure. There's this mysteriously omnipresent slow-churning emotion through the entire film, and I think it's mostly her creating that all the time. Incredible work.

Quote from: WorldForgot on October 23, 2021, 11:23:14 AMIn themes surrounding Paul and prophecy, the edit and script are effective. In its representation of cultures, I'm not so sure right now. How does this feel to someone that's not read the novel? I expect that it's all too quick? But maybe that's okay because it will inspire people that dug into the aesthetic to read the source material? Its exposition is handled so well that I'm not sure it's 'handled' in so far as how the Freman are portrayed.

My only exposure to Dune had been the Lynch movie and cultural osmosis. I know there's more to discover, but I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything, really. At first I wasn't sure how technologically advanced they were, but that was enumerated as we learned about a few of the technologies they invented.

All the politics and worldbuilding were crystal clear, somehow, with exposition sprinkled in organically, and not a single lore dump to be found.

This is in stark contrast to the Lynch Dune. My first viewing was a very long time ago, but I don't remember anything outside of the visuals being all that interesting. But here, I want every morsel.

Spoiler: ShowHide
The fall of House Atreides had such an impact here — I really got a sense of everything they were losing. I literally don't remember how this development happened in the Lynch movie. In fact, I didn't even remember that House Atreides fell, so that came as a surprise to me in Dune 2021.


Quote from: polkablues on October 23, 2021, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: jviness02 on October 23, 2021, 12:17:50 PMThe climax is anticlimactic and the third act is weird for the same reason.

That's the biggest deficit of the film, that it quite literally is only half a movie. The third act is weird because there is no third act; it ends midway through act two. Normally when you split a story up like this, you would structure it so that each individual part has its own three act structure within the greater narrative, but Villeneuve didn't bother, he just took the story as a whole, filmed half of it, and said bon appetit. Which will be fine if and when the second part gets made and people can watch the whole thing as one complete five hour ( :shock:) movie, but for now we're left with the story of people moving vaguely in the direction of a goal and stopping halfway.

MINOR SPOILERS

I went in knowing this stopped halfway through the first book (or so I've been told), so I was fully prepared for the story to stop where it did, pretty much where I assumed it would.

I would agree this doesn't have a three-act structure...

Spoiler: ShowHide
I can view it as either a one-act story, "adjusting to Dune," or two-act story, split at the Harkonnen invasion.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it works. Once Paul started seeing visions of Zendaya, I thought it became clear that she was the destination. So the fact that that's exactly where the movie ended felt perfect, not truncated at all.

The end also has a solid "this ending is a new beginning" feel.

It's unconventional I guess, but I didn't feel it lacking at all. "Deficit" would not occur to me.


Quote from: WorldForgot on October 23, 2021, 11:23:14 AM
Spoiler: ShowHide
It's disingenuous how they marketed this right? I won't be surprised if general audiences are frustrated by the loose threads and how little Zendaya truly interacts with the plot. From the marketing, they'd have you think that Zendaya is in this movie and not just part of the promo for the second part.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Yeah, super misleading. Thankfully I caught onto this pretty early and realized she would mostly just be in visions. (I wasn't necessarily clamoring for Zendaya screentime either.) But yeah, super misleading marketing. Not only marketing, but press, which makes it feel slightly unethical tbh. They clearly just wanted the Chalamet/Zendaya combo to create good press tour content, which of course it does. Paul palling around with his mom would not have fit the mold, I guess.

https://twitter.com/VinnieMancuso1/status/1451589133462392836

jviness02

#38
October 23, 2021, 04:34:08 PM
Quote from: HACKANUT on October 23, 2021, 03:17:06 PM
It's a completely fair comparison. But I do think we're looking at a different industry than 2049 was faced with.

Back then they ruled with box office power. In 2021 they must cultivate streaming power.😎

For spoilers use the "Sp" icon, I wanna hear what you've got to say!
Spoiler: ShowHide
Oscar Isaac's death scene was really cool. I did not read the book, so I was surprised so many big name actors died in Part I. For those who read the book, is Josh Brolin dead?

Also, the middle section really is phenomenal. The film certainly has flaws, but that middle section is what big budget filmmaking should be. It's a visual feast, unlike so much of what we get nowadays from major productions *cough* Marvel *cough* .

Jeremy Blackman

#39
October 23, 2021, 04:45:39 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
Yeah. The "action scenes" are really their own thing in this movie. You don't have spaceships whizzing by and shaky cam barely keeping up with kinetic movement or whatever. Instead, everything is enormous, slow, and heavy. Like that super wide shot of the Harkonnen ship firing off hundreds of missiles. Man does Villeneuve know how to create SCALE.

HACKANUT

#40
October 23, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: jviness02 on October 23, 2021, 04:34:08 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
Oscar Isaac's death scene was really cool. I did not read the book, so I was surprised so many big name actors died in Part I. For those who read the book, is Josh Brolin dead?

Also, the middle section really is phenomenal. The film certainly has flaws, but that middle section is what big budget filmmaking should be. It's a visual feast, unlike so much of what we get nowadays from major productions *cough* Marvel *cough* .


Spoiler: ShowHide

I loved the Leto death scene. Beautiful composition with that loooong table. Feasting Baron (ew) and naked Leto just utterly defeated. Great stuff. Also, the reveal of Baron on the ceiling got a gasp out of me.  and those Lynch-ish Hazmat suits! Whew.


Oh and, Gurney Halleck and Thufir Hawat are not dead.

polkablues

#41
October 23, 2021, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 23, 2021, 04:45:39 PM
Man does Villeneuve know how to create SCALE.

100%. The sand worm was one of the most awe-inspiring things I've ever seen in a movie. That was the one moment I was like "Yeah, I probably should have seen this in the theater."
My house, my rules, my coffee

WorldForgot

#42
October 23, 2021, 07:10:56 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on October 23, 2021, 04:45:39 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
Yeah. The "action scenes" are really their own thing in this movie. You don't have spaceships whizzing by and shaky cam barely keeping up with kinetic movement or whatever. Instead, everything is enormous, slow, and heavy. Like that super wide shot of the Harkonnen ship firing off hundreds of missiles.


Spoiler: ShowHide
Obviously the Desert Storm + Afghanistan allusions are easy to draw, but when I saw this visual though my mind immediately flashed to the footage of Israel's Iron Dome intercepting missiles. And idek how many of those missile "defense" systems there are world wide, could be more widespread than I expect.

Not that it had to be indicative of any specific jihad, as Frank Herbert's Butlerian Jihad iz specific enuff, but its imagery as to real-world international conflict is potent, I think.

HACKANUT

#43
October 26, 2021, 02:27:44 PM
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