so here it is
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.amazon.com%2Fimages%2FP%2FB000E1PTGK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg&hash=807a873656d265ab865fa661d72c40bcda51e97e)
Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD Player
click here for Amazon.com's HD DVD store (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/16297241/ref=amb_link_33028501_3/103-7048278-6259021)
and the news...
Toshiba Debuts HD DVD Players
Thu Jan 5, 12:38 PM ET, source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20060105/bs_nf/40666)
Toshiba has taken the wraps off of its first HD DVD players for the U.S. market, in effect keeping pace with Sony and other backers of the rival Blu-Ray high-definition DVD format.
The Japanese electronics giant introduced two new players at the Consumer Electronics Show, models HD-XA1 and HD-A1, which promise to deliver superior visual quality supported by the latest video-compression technologies and featuring high-resolution audio capabilities.
Both units will hit the streets in March, the company said, priced at $800 for the HD-XA1 and $500 for the HD-A1.
PC Drive Introduced
The company initially had postponed the launch, originally set for the end of last year, because of issues related to copy-protection technology and the advanced access content system (AACS), a digital-rights-management technology that has yet to be finalized by the DVD Forum standards organization.
With backward compatibility, the new devices will let you play your current collection of DVDs and CDs. Both drives support the MPEG-4, VC-1, and MPEG-2 video-compression technologies and will feature the video decoder chip introduced earlier this week by Broadcom.
You will be able to connect the players to HDTV sets through a High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI), which can convert video content to a resolution of 720p or 1080i to complement the performance of HDTVs.
Also at this week's CES gathering, Toshiba introduced the Qosmio notebook PC, the first laptop to include an HD DVD drive that can read or write next-generation or current DVD formats. It supports optical discs that can contain up to 30 GB of data.
Ongoing Battle with Blu-Ray
Toshiba's announcement comes just as Pioneer introduced its first Blu-Ray next-generation DVD drive for PCs. The new drive will write and read single-layer BD-R and BD-RE discs and read single-layer and double-layer BD-ROM discs without cartridge. It is designed to ensure high reliability in high-density recording and playback with Blu-Ray discs as well as with DVDs.
The battle between the two next-generation, digital-video formats shows no signs of abating, a fact that could cause consumers to shy away from purchasing new equipment, analysts say. Most content providers have already chosen sides, further complicating the issue, although the Blu-Ray camp might have an edge currently, already boasting the release of several titles from major film studios, including Sony, Paramount, Twentieth Century Fox, and Lionsgate.
In addition to being pushed by Toshiba, HD DVD is backed by NEC, Sanyo, Intel, and Microsoft, among others. The Blu-Ray Disc Association has more than 140 members, including hardware-manufacturing heavyweights like Apple, Dell, HP, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, and Sony.
ill keep my old dvd player, and invest in movie tickets, dvds. Really the hd hype makes no differance yet, considering i dont even own an hd tv. I still watch vhs tapes. That is one awfully large dvd player btw...and hd-dvd i believe will lose the battle against blu ray even with a 7 1/2 poiunt spread
I don't know if there's any point in getting either an HD-DVD or Blu-ray player now, since it is likely that only one of them will be around. Consumers aren't going to want two competing formats of similar quality, even though some studios back one and some back another.
yeah, fuck that shit...i am happy w/my flatscreen, s-video cables, and my boom.....dont care about the overpriced new shit..
PS3 will play Blu-Ray discs.
If I had a HD tv i'd switch over when that comes out. Alas I do not.
Quote from: killafilm on January 07, 2006, 04:13:34 AM
PS3 will play Blu-Ray discs.
If I had a HD tv i'd switch over when that comes out. Alas I do not.
Microsoft just announced that they are releasing an HD-DVD external drive for the Xbox 360 soon.
Put a fork in the format war... it's done before it even began.
from PS3updates:
Digital Playground, a US adult video maker, has announced that they will be backing the Blu-ray side in the fierce next generation DVD war on January 19.
The founder of the company "June" said "The Blu-ray is more of a future format in 2 ways." Digital Playground is now preparing for mass-producing next generation DVD.
Unless HD-DVD can get some big name porn companies behind it, things are looking pretty good for Blu-ray.
Blow-Ray
Blu-lay
Do-ray
Blew-Ray
As stupid as it sounds, I think blu-ray will come up on top because it has a cooler name. HD-DVD doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Most people won't care which format is actually better. And it won't be long before all the distribution companies have a meeting and decide to back one format. Its in their best interest to all agree and have one format become popular so they can start selling blu-ray (oops, my bias shows) dvd's at ridiculously expensive prices. Can you imagine all the special features? 30gb. I would be excited, but I find DVD special features content is already getting pretty sad. What are they gonna try to fill it all in with?
Quote from: Recce on January 20, 2006, 10:05:48 PM
What are they gonna try to fill it all in with?
The main benefit is its HD-ness. That requires more space. DVD-videos are all very compressed, which isn't as obvious on regular TVs. They'd look fine on an HDTV, I'm sure, but it still wouldn't be in HD. They can master it in HD, but they still have to compress it to DVD. This is my understanding of it anyway.
Uncompressed video could easily take up all that space. It'd actually still have to be compressed, but just not as much, and at a higher resolution. I think normal DVDs are at something like 525 line resolution, and HDTV is capable of 1080, I think. So there's that.
Or they could fit that 4-disc Lord of the Rings thing onto one disc. Or well as a whole season of a TV show. Actually that'd be pretty cool.
dvds don't look as good on hd tvs as they do on regulars. the pixels have to be stretched out a little to compensate for the quality difference a guy on the phone said. right now the only good looking thing on hd is an hd channel. regular tv is also weirdened.
there's probably a good deal of truth in what polka said about the porn industry being the deciding factor.
My understanding is that both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will use the same compression that Apple uses for it's HD trailers. Which is H.264 and also much much better than Mpeg2.
Quote from: picolas on January 21, 2006, 02:45:16 AM
dvds don't look as good on hd tvs as they do on regulars. the pixels have to be stretched out a little to compensate for the quality difference a guy on the phone said. right now the only good looking thing on hd is an hd channel. regular tv is also weirdened.
Right. That's why I got this:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.amazon.com%2Fimages%2FP%2FB000A6TN9I.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg&hash=b98fdd752abeaef6cc22a9a3baafbe7f58f21360)
It's a Sony HD Conversion DVD player. It simulates HD quality to 720p/1080i using the HDMI. And it works. I previously tried the LG HD-Up-conversion player and it sucked; showed the pixels and was worse than plugging in my regular player. Switched to this and the quality is much better; clear. You can see the difference.
Quote from: killafilm on January 21, 2006, 02:20:50 PM
My understanding is that both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will use the same compression that Apple uses for it's HD trailers. Which is H.264 and also much much better than Mpeg2.
On the contrary, there's a minor controversy surrounding the fact that mpeg-2 will remain the standard...
Quote from: permanent username on January 21, 2006, 10:25:34 AM
there's probably a good deal of truth in what polka said about the porn industry being the deciding factor.
It's one of the major reasons VHS won out over Betamax. Sony took a stand on principle and said that they would not release porn on Betamax, which was a propietary Sony technology that they controlled production of, much like they do with UMD discs today. And since the potential market for home adult video was massive and untapped, VHS rode the wave to victory.
No way Sony's planning on making the same mistake twice.
That said, I'm sure there's going to be plenty of porn released on both formats, but if the major companies are choosing one side over the other, that's going to make the difference in the long run.
can someone explain to me what betamax was?
Quote from: JimmyGator on January 21, 2006, 04:25:25 PM
can someone explain to me what betamax was?
Videotape format. Much like VHS, but actually somewhat better quality. Came out at the same time as and competed with VHS. Lost.
they were also much smaller than vhs.
and much sexier than vhs
Quote from: matt35mm on January 20, 2006, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: Recce on January 20, 2006, 10:05:48 PM
What are they gonna try to fill it all in with?
The main benefit is its HD-ness. That requires more space. DVD-videos are all very compressed, which isn't as obvious on regular TVs. They'd look fine on an HDTV, I'm sure, but it still wouldn't be in HD. They can master it in HD, but they still have to compress it to DVD. This is my understanding of it anyway.
Uncompressed video could easily take up all that space. It'd actually still have to be compressed, but just not as much, and at a higher resolution. I think normal DVDs are at something like 525 line resolution, and HDTV is capable of 1080, I think. So there's that.
Yeah, but they will still have a hell of a lot more room then they did on standard dual layer DVDs. And the "HD" that they will be putting on these HD-DVDs are not even close to true uncompressed HD. That's something like 2gb/minute or more. As for the porn industry being the deciding factor, I'm not so sure it will be the case this time around. Porn films generally don't have the budget to shoot on film or HD. Most of these things are still shot on mini-dv, so I don't think a conversion to HD would look very good, or be very cost effective. If anything, I think the porn industry will keep regular DVDs around longer until HD cameras become more available at consumer levels and they make the switch.
As for HD-DVDs or blu-ray looking fine on regular TVs, I'm sure they do, but I don't know if its really worth having it. I'm not too sure how these new HD players work, but I'm assuming they have an HD out and Video out. To play them on a regular TV, they'd have to be downconverted back to regular TV format through the Video out where you wouldn't really be able to see a huge difference. Your HD would then be playing at your 525 lines anyway. It'll be a slow climb for HD-DVDs. I remember ten years ago when DVDs just started being released in video stores (They had 1/4 of a shelf dedicated to DVDs). It was slow because people didn't want to buy DVD players. Now they're being asked to buy HD players and HD TVs.
What I'm really excited about is the prospect of blu-ray burners and having 30gb of data storage on a single disk (wipe off drool).
Quote from: matt35mm on January 20, 2006, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: Recce on January 20, 2006, 10:05:48 PM
What are they gonna try to fill it all in with?
The main benefit is its HD-ness. That requires more space. DVD-videos are all very compressed, which isn't as obvious on regular TVs. They'd look fine on an HDTV, I'm sure, but it still wouldn't be in HD. They can master it in HD, but they still have to compress it to DVD. This is my understanding of it anyway.
Uncompressed video could easily take up all that space. It'd actually still have to be compressed, but just not as much, and at a higher resolution. I think normal DVDs are at something like 525 line resolution, and HDTV is capable of 1080, I think. So there's that.
Or they could fit that 4-disc Lord of the Rings thing onto one disc. Or well as a whole season of a TV show. Actually that'd be pretty cool.
normal dvds are 700 lines. still almost 400 below the HD TV capability.
On a regular TV only 525 lines are seen.
-sl-
Quote from: polkablues on January 21, 2006, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: JimmyGator on January 21, 2006, 04:25:25 PM
can someone explain to me what betamax was?
Videotape format. Much like VHS, but actually somewhat better quality. Came out at the same time as and competed with VHS. Lost.
one of the major reasons why Beta lost was because the video tape only held at maximum of 1.5 hours. Any movie over 1 1/2 hours would have to be on two tapes. whereas VHS was different and generally anything over 2.5 hours (SP mode) would have to be split onto another tape. considering that most films are around the 2 hour mark this made VHS the obvious choice.
Sony (created betamax) at that time wasn't licensing the product out as much as JVC (created VHS). Much like Nintendo's downfall Sony soon lost the race to JVC for these two reasons.
Beta is actually still around. Television Broadcast quality material is on Beta SP technology, that has been around since the early days of betamax. A lot of film festivals only accept Beta SP as the choice video for submissions.
-sl-
Quote from: socketlevel on January 27, 2006, 09:19:50 AM
Beta is actually still around. Television Broadcast quality material is on Beta SP technology, that has been around since the early days of betamax. A lot of film festivals only accept Beta SP as the choice video for submissions.
Is Beta SP the same as the Beta in the Beta vs. VHS war? Beta SP looks pretty good projected on a big screen.
Quote from: Ravi on January 27, 2006, 11:53:33 AMIs Beta SP the same as the Beta in the Beta vs. VHS war? Beta SP looks pretty good projected on a big screen.
No Beta SP is a 3/4 inch tape. Beta and VHS tapes are both 1/2 inch.
Quote from: Ravi on January 27, 2006, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: socketlevel on January 27, 2006, 09:19:50 AM
Beta is actually still around. Television Broadcast quality material is on Beta SP technology, that has been around since the early days of betamax. A lot of film festivals only accept Beta SP as the choice video for submissions.
Is Beta SP the same as the Beta in the Beta vs. VHS war? Beta SP looks pretty good projected on a big screen.
it's the same in the sense that it's the same technology just the quality and standards differ. much more capacity on the SP. both were developed at the same time, but like how mac pointed out, much more room on the SP tape for definition
-sl-
Warner noted that many of the titles that they have planned for release on DVD in 2006 will be released day-and-date on HD-DVD format as well. Warner execs were also careful to stress that while some of their HD titles will enjoy a brief period of exclusivity on HD-DVD, given that the format is launching first, every title that's released on HD-DVD will also be released on Blu-ray Disc when that format finally launches later this year. While some extras will be exclusive only to the HD formats, Warner is going to be careful to make sure that all of the extras available on regular DVD will also be included on HD... so you can replace your regular DVDs with either HD-DVD or Blu-ray if you so choose. Look for the first Warner HD-DVD titles in late March, with another wave of catalog titles in early April. Note that Warner's catalog titles on HD-DVD are going to be priced at a very wallet-friendly SRP of $29.98 (though new films may cost more).
Tomorrow is the day.
As for myself, I'm a realist. DVDs are on their way out. Bound to happen, you realize. The question is: what is the criteria for movies worth keeping around on DVD. Seems to me that all Criterions should be kept, box sets, and oddities. As for the run of the mill, the popular, the common, they're gone. I'm selling them. I'm going to attempt to sell off at least one hundred and use the money for an HD DVD player. Media cannibalism.
I don't see any reason to 'toss' all my dvds in favor of HD or Blu-Ray. Especially if the movie is more than 10 years old. Just how much better can a movie from the 60's, 70's, or 50's look?? Especially if you're talking about a movie that has just been restored. The HD and blu-ray discs will no doubt be struck from the same restored prints that the current dvds were. The resolution, and picture quality of a film is ultimately tied to the condition and quality of the original materials after all. Things like Lord of the RIngs, King Kong and newer films shot on HD will no doubt be my main purchases as the format gets going. I'll replace some dvds as new restorations are done on recent films, but c'mon... just how high a resolution can you get out of a 60 year old film, and when does all the boosting and computer processing destroy the original artistic integrity of the work?
There is no reason to toss old DVDs, aside from better picture quality, but it seems as if you're missing the point. Films are an analog medium. DVDs are digital. Films are more exact an interpretation of what actually took place, and DVDs are an approximation. For HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, you're getting a more precise approximation which results in better picture and sound.
So, to answer your question about how high a resolution you can get from a 60 year old film? Precisely the same resolution you can get from a film shot just yesterday. This is because of the nature of film as an analog medium, chemicals acting in different degrees as a result of sensitivity to light levels, versus the approximation DVDs give us with dots -- pixels -- each a different color. Since HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have more pixels, they're able to produce a better picture.
I hope that clears things up. Else, I'll have to try to explain in further detail the difference between analog and digital, and I'm sure someone else could probably do it better than me.
Quote from: onomabracadabra on March 30, 2006, 02:36:55 AM
So, to answer your question about how high a resolution you can get from a 60 year old film? Precisely the same resolution you can get from a film shot just yesterday.
A fact that a lot of A/V enthusiasts fail to understand. The theoretical resolution of film is 4k which Hi-def DVD will only acheive a quarter of at best.
Here in the UK the first wave HDTV is only just about to kick off in May so incentives to buy a HDTV capable screen are only just starting to take effect. Given how the market has been inclined towards Digital television via terrestrial broadcast, I don't see HDTV affecting a large part of the market until our analog signal is turned off freeing enough bandwidth for HDTV terrestrial - which will be in 2010! I really don't see either format taking off for a while here. Upscaling SD to plasma sizes just looks crappy and I'm very happy to stick with a CRT for the time being.
If the format were to take off, the Criterions in everyones collection would decrease in price relatively as much as any other film. Most of them are downconverted from 2k HD transfers the resolution of which would really show off the restorative work. I think Criterion can look forward to a nice share of the HD market, they cater to film buffs who will enjoy the chance to see the film with a level clarity that gets closer to a cinema presentation.
no i undertsand completely what you're saying. but what i mean is that the transfer of the film to digital has already been done, in most cases. companies will just be putting that same transfer on an hd-dvd instead of a dvd. as long as the original was transferred as a hi-def digital first you will get a lot more visual info from HD, but the restoration work has already been done. when you're talking about something like Ugetsu for example, I do not see any reason to rebuy the film as an HD DVD when the transfer made to DVD has been such a vast improvement over the previous releases.
Really, it all depends on your TV. If you have a standard-resolution TV, there's no point in buying a high-definition version of a DVD you already own. On the other hand, if you have a HDTV, there would be an easily noticeable difference between watching a standard DVD on it and watching a high-definition one. Especially if you have a fairly large TV, regular DVDs don't look so good on them.
Quote from: analogzombie on April 01, 2006, 12:07:52 AM
no i undertsand completely what you're saying. but what i mean is that the transfer of the film to digital has already been done, in most cases. companies will just be putting that same transfer on an hd-dvd instead of a dvd. as long as the original was transferred as a hi-def digital first you will get a lot more visual info from HD, but the restoration work has already been done. when you're talking about something like Ugetsu for example, I do not see any reason to rebuy the film as an HD DVD when the transfer made to DVD has been such a vast improvement over the previous releases.
A lot of the restoration work is done on a digital copy of the film. I work in a post production office that has a restoration department and the digital transfer is only the first step. Its then passed through a series of algorithms and technicians who go frame by frame and clean up scratches and dust. Color corrections are done, etc. As HD-DVD and bluray become more popular, I suspect that restoration work will become even more detailed as new technologies are developped. They'll just keep re-restoring films as they become able to make them better.
Aside from SD-video-sourced stuff, must-haves from entertainment and educational perspectives, and excellent bargains, I think I'm going to slow down my buying for a while. My main TV on which I used to watch movies is not working properly, and I want the replacement to be an HDTV, when the prices go down. Until then I can live with the cheap Apex TV in my bedroom.
Has anyone noticed the new "genre" on Netflix is "HD DVD"? Sweet... then I read that they're going to carry both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD... Netflix, gearing up for the future.
Sony Kills Off UMD Movies
Source: RealTechNews
This should not be coming as a huge surprise, but the demise of Sony's UMD format for movies is going away faster than the Mini Disc got shelved for music. This week Sony quietly announced a new entertainment pak called the Memory Stick Entertainment Packs (MSEP) that contained movies on a Sony Memory stick, and many paused to wonder what that meant for the UMD. And now it is official.
Sales of movies on the PSP's once-hot proprietary format have slowed to a trickle, causing several major movie studios to cease supporting it. In March, the Hollywood Reporter ran an article claiming that the home-entertainment divisions of Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures have "completely stopped" releasing films on the format, and other studios have been cutting back their release slates.
Perhaps more disturbing for Sony were unconfirmed reports that retail colossi Wal-Mart and Best Buy were scaling back UMD displays in their stores. This week, speculation turned into reality when Target decided to discontinue stocking UMDs entirely. A manager at a San Francisco Bay Area Target outlet told GameSpot, "We no longer carry PSP movies. We stopped carrying them nationwide." Source: Gamespot
Quote from: MacGuffin on July 15, 2006, 06:16:28 PM
This should not be coming as a huge surprise, but the demise of Sony's UMD format for movies is going away faster than the Mini Disc got shelved for music. This week Sony quietly announced a new entertainment pak called the Memory Stick Entertainment Packs (MSEP) that contained movies on a Sony Memory stick, and many paused to wonder what that meant for the UMD.
here's more info on that:
Sony is giving PlayStation customers a trip to the moviesThis week the company announced its Memory Stick Entertainment Packs, "designed for people who want to experience the full range of multi-functional features" on their PlayStation Portable systems. One- or 2-gigabyte versions will cost US$60 and $100, respectively. They will be made available in August online and at Sony Style retail stores and authorized dealers in the U.S. Customers can choose from four movies, including "Hitch," "S.W.A.T.," "The Grudge" and "XXX: State of the Union."
"We had great success on the big screen with each of [those] movies," said Mike Arrieta, senior vice president, digital distribution and mobile entertainment, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. "We expect consumers to have renewed enjoyment from these movies on the go as we make them available on Memory Stick media cards for the PSP system."
"Sony is in a unique position in the flash memory market because we are connected to other Sony companies that provide content, like movies from Sony Pictures," Mike Kahn, senior manager for memory stick media at Sony Electronics, told TechNewsWorld. He noted that the Memory Stick Entertainment Pack is designed to offer content along with flash memory.
"This was a great opportunity for Sony Pictures Home Entertainment and Sony Electronics to work together to provide an added value to PlayStation customers who are purchasing a Sony Memory Stick for their PSP," Kahn added. The packs will be bundled with an installer DVD. Once a customer loads the DVD into his personal computer, he can use the unlock code in the package to select, unlock and transfer one of the four Sony movies optimized for PSP playback from the DVD to the Memory Stick media. Although the Memory Stick Duo cards included in the Entertainment Pack can be used with any enabled device, such as Cybershot cameras, Handycam camcorders and Sony Ericsson (Nasdaq: ERICY) mobile phones, a movie transferred from the bundled DVD is viewable exclusively on the PSP system.
The new offering may be a reaction to diminished interest in Sony's Universal Media Disc. "The fact is, the UMD had some early success; they had a lot of cooperation from movie studios," Brian O'Rourke, senior analyst at In-Stat, told TechNewsWorld. "But it tailed off pretty quickly, because people didn't want to pay 30 bucks for a movie they might already have on DVD." Compared to the UMD, which is read-only format, the Memory Stick is more flexible, O'Rourke said. Ultimately, however, the films are a way to drive market share, he pointed out. The PSP is faring well in the United States and Europe, although it is trailing behind Nintendo DS, especially in Japan.
"All they're doing is using the news as a way to convince people to buy Memory Sticks. They're trying to increase sales. The movie is just a bonus," O'Rourke said. "It's a way of recognizing the PSP as a multifunctional device."
Sorry for the bump, but wanted to throw out a few questions.
Do any of you (Mac I noticed on page 1 you do) have experience with dvd players that specialize in up-converting dvds to HD tvs? I've noticed a few products come out lately that are getting pretty good reviews up-converting. I understand that no matter how good the up-conversion is, dvds won't look quite as good on a HDTV as a HD-DVD/Blue Ray disc would. However, it seems that a quality up-conversion dvd player may be a necessity just to make regular dvds look as good (I don't mean resolution...just how it looks to the naked eye) on an HDTV as they do on a standard definition TV. Also, the common opinion is that both a quality up-converting dvd player and a HDTV that does its own up-conversion will only help the process. Thoughts?
Finally, there are a few front-projectors out there (still too expensive for me) that seem to project standard dvds and HD-dvds at very high quality according to some reviews. Does anyone have a high-def (720p or higher resolution) projector that they also play standard dvds on that would care to comment?
Thanks.
I own this one:
Philips DVP5960 (http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/product.jsp?language=en&country=US&catalogType=CONSUMER&productId=DVP5960_37_US_CONSUMER)
-It's inexpensive (<$100) and has a lot of nice features (up to 1080i, DD, DTS, USB, DIVX, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, VCD, CD-R/RW) , but it's not perfect. Check out opinions/issues on it here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=675600&page=1&pp=30)
Does upconversion make a visible difference? Maybe. Upconversion seems to smooth out the pixels a little better, but I doubt even this would be recognizable if you had a display < 50 in. If you're looking at projection displays, I would think it would make quite a bit of difference. A TV with progressive scan and one without while working with the DVD upconversion should not make a true visual difference.
I don't own a projector, but you can check out detailed opinions on them at www.avsforum.com (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=9). It's a good site for audio/visual equipment and kin.
Thanks, Pwaybloe...any opinions and information help at this point. I'm just trying to educate myself. The main concern is that I want my current dvds to look as good as they can with high definition displays, whether that's a projector or a high-def television. Oppo has a new upconversion dvd player that seems to be getting pretty good reviews and that is what peaked my interest. Also, I'm looking at whether to get a modestly priced (is that even possible yet?) HDTV in the near future, or save for a few years and do over my basement with a home theater system including a high-def projector. I don't want my current dvds to be a completely sunk cost.
my xbox 360 upscales beautifully. i had forgotten how cruddy dvds had been looking for the last year. i think it makes them look better than they did on the old tv actually.
Picolas, is that the HD-DVD attachment that is doing the upscaling or just the X-box itself without the additional hardware?
just the box.
Quote from: pyramid machine on January 06, 2006, 08:45:53 PM
yeah, fuck that shit...i am happy w/my flatscreen, s-video cables, and my boom.....dont care about the overpriced new shit..
it amazes me how stupid i am....thank you guys for putting up with me...by the way...i turn thirty this by the end of the year :yabbse-sad:
i just recently bought a 40" samsung 720p/1080i lcd widescreen tv and a 5.1 LG home theater system
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lcdtvbuyingguide.com%2Flcdtvpics%2Flcd%2Fsamsung_lns51.jpg&hash=6c21a6f7c2c5ff03d359b9e42e7cd85dca1615cc)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.rentacenter.com%2Fclients%2F74%2Fassets%2F3_782_25.jpg&hash=8e52145bf1d99fba25eac08417abf4b4ac608767)
i decided to go high-def and purchase the very inexspensive xbox 360 hd-dvd drive and you guys know that i recently purchased a ps3...which takes care of blu-ray capabilities....with the films [and games] i have been very impressed...what i quoted is an example of how a stupid near jerk reaction can make oneself look like a fuckign dumbass....
since most, if not all of you guys are film savy...you owe it to yourself to go high def...the difference is unbelievable...i was skeptic of thi sbut i did it anyway and i'm glad i did...
-i live in a small apartment and i dont need a huge tv set...just yet...i decided to go w/native 720p instead of 1080p b/c through my "research", if your tv is smaller than 50", you will not notice a difference......as for the LG home theater system...i know its kind of ugly looking and lg is a cheap brand...but for $300 it does have soem good features like:
-5 disc changer
-5.1 dolby digital/dts sorround sound
-standard def 1080i upconverter
-hdmi
-component
-ipod osd
-digital optical audio
-and other bullshit
but for a small aprtment...the LG works
even thougth 5.1 is old habit...its new to me..and again, i love it!
i own just a few high def titles....and netflixed many...thatsa cool thign about netflix, you can rent blu/hd films.....as far as picture quality, the jump is so noticable that its retarded not to experience it....my only complaints are that not all tranfers look "amazing!" ...and its best to go to highdefdigest.com (http://highdefdigest.com) before you purchase to make sure they didnt fuck up the audio/video portion...
so, any of you guys went high blu-hd yet? opinions?
Quote from: pyramid machine on July 31, 2007, 03:17:00 PM
so, any of you guys went high blu-hd yet? opinions?
i think it's probably best to wait for the hybrid players. though it looks like blu-ray will win (more titles/support) even though hd-dvd is supposedly better.
Close Encounters of the Third Kind exclusively on Bluray (without ugly coverart): see Mac's post: http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=9800.0#new. The Berg has made his choice.
The fact he's exempt from this new paramount deal makes the whole thing less important than I'd first thought. Although it had been said that something like the Indiana Jones Trilogy would be available on both formats, this release suggests Spielberg doesn't think that will be necessary when the opportunity for Indy comes around next year. I'm predicting Bluray to be declared by the end of the Christmas shopping season.
I don't like Sony's proprietary ownership of the format but I read today that the extra capacity meant that an interactive feature for 'Blades of Glory' (now cancelled on Bluray as a result of the Paramount deal) was unachievable on HD-DVD. That leads me to wonder whether the Bluray exclusivity for CE3K is partly due to the extra space required for seamlessly branching the three cuts of the film without compromising the bit-rate.
Blu-ray's Pirates of the Caribbean release has framing issues (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/31/blu-rays-pirates-of-the-caribbean-release-has-framing-issues/)
New Chinese Involvement Could Trigger HD DVD Price Plunge (http://www.betanews.com/article/New_Chinese_Involvement_Could_Trigger_HD_DVD_Price_Plunge/1189196071)
The link below has a series of screen grab comparisons of the Spiderman Standard Definition Discs and the new Bluray releases. Hold your mouse over the image to see the latter.
http://www.mbmg.de/hd-discs/spider-man-trilogy_dvd_vs_bd/01_spider-man3.html
I think the difference is really impressive. From what I hear, the added depth to the image does wonders for the viewing experience...and product placement (a Sony laptop, whould've thunk it).
The site also has some HD-DVD to Bluray comparisons if you're interested. The Bluray often appears more detailed and sharper but I can't tell if this is some kind of enhancement or a better preservation of the film grain.
and yet... the film will still suck.
Is there currently a way to capture frames from HD-DVD or BR discs? DVD Beaver just takes digital photos of the images.
Quote from: modage on November 04, 2007, 06:55:51 PM
and yet... the film will still suck.
Yeah 3 couldn't get much worse, unfortunately. I can't believe how I deluded myself into thinking it was anything but a mess.
Quote from: RaviIs there currently a way to capture frames from HD-DVD or BR discs? DVD Beaver just takes digital photos of the images.
You can if you use PowerDVD software in conjunction with a Bluray Rom Drive such as this:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41BkxaT23bL._AA280_.jpg&hash=c15dd4c14fb08192f2547ae39beeb068968aa062)
I just ordered one (along with 2001, Close Encounters, and Dog Day Afternoon) so I'll let you know how simple it is.
pyramid, i hope this is not you... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_7t_YSdIwo)
Quote from: mogwai on November 07, 2007, 10:57:39 PM
pyramid, i hope this is not you... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_7t_YSdIwo)
ha ha!! no it's not me. but i do get like that when i explain how great lynch is.
So, getting on to what High-Defintion is like to watch. Beyond just being a prettier picture.
I recently bought The Searchers on Bluray, which I've never seen before. Now obviously this has a prettier picture than most, being shot on Vista Vision and filmed in beautiful scenery but this is not flashy filmaking. Most scenes are long, wide-angle, static takes but the amount of detail available makes everything fascinating. In one of the special features Martin Scorcese talks about VistaVision being the greatest film format that has ever existed and recalls that the first time he saw The Searchers, even the slightest gestures or movements made an impact: "wow, did you just see him move to the left, there". Listening to Bogdanovich's commentary made me realise how much of the film rests on these subtle gestures that are, for the most part, shown without the use of closeups. With the high definition version of the film, you are processing much more information and engaging more with the emotion of the characters.
Quote from: picolas on August 01, 2007, 05:35:27 AMi think it's probably best to wait for the hybrid players.
I was looking into the LG BH100 combo player. But at a retail price of $1000 and then after reading these reviews...
QuoteMy site was the first to give this product a full review back in February. I was impressed with LG for being the first to come out with this hybrid product. If your movie collection is primarily Blu-ray then this is a great buy for you. If it's the other way around, then do not buy this product.
The player does not support HDi interactive menu for HD DVDs. You don't get the whole experience when playing those discs on the BH100. The menu only display text, unlike when you play the same disc on a dedicated HD DVD player.
The player also has problem outputting at 1080p. I thought I was able to achieve this at one point but now I am not so sure. The highest it would go is 1080i.
The DVD upconversion is like opening a box of chocolate -- you never know what you're gonna get. Some good, some bad. I tried Finding Nemo on it and it looked really bad.
One more thing, you can't play audio CDs on this $1000+ high-definition player.
QuoteNone of your HD-DVD disc's special-bonus features can be played on this unit. ONLY THE MOVIE ITSELF! In fact, the title menu will not even appear when playing an HD-DVD disc.
YOU WON'T LEARN THIS THROUGH THE PRODUCT SPECS!
You can buy a regular $250 HD-DVD Player and it will play all of the features just fine, but this $1,000 unit won't! Go figure. Contacted LG, Customer Service Department, who said that they never obtained permission from Toshiba to allow this unit to play the special or bonus features on you HD-DVD disc.
So all you get for your $30 spent on an HD-DVD IS THE MOVIE...YOU FORFEIT THE INTERACTIVE MENU COMPLETELY!
This is an important detail LG fails to mention when advertising the product. An LG representative responded: "...well, we never said it COULD play the special features-interactive menu...why would we want to advertize that?" INDEED, WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO?
IN SHORT, THIS UNIT IS AN OVERPRICED BLU-RAY PLAYER THAT FUNCTIONS AS A "LIMITED" HD-DVD PLAYER.
Not recommended if you want to use the special/bonus features on your HD-DVD. Buying both HD-DVD and Blu Ray players would make more sense!
...I decided it was better to just buy an HD and Blu-Ray separately. After reading some reviews on CNET, (http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-hd-xa2-hd/4505-6463_7-32074339.html) HDGuru (http://hdguru.com/?p=56) and Consumer Reports (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Consumer_Reports/Consumer_Reports_Rates_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Players/1168), Toshiba's HD-XA2 was voted the best HD player.
So Amazon had a recent sale, and gave in and bought one-half of the HD war.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftechnabob.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2006%2F12%2Ftoshiba_hd-a2_hd_dvd_player.jpg&hash=35b4bf7e4426a63f3114169442050c6c74b2c5d0)
Now, I await a sale on a Blu-Ray player (eyeing Panasonic's DMP line which was voted runner-up).
are you going to re-buy all your owned dvd's on hd-dvd and blu-ray? or will you stop buying dvd's and only buy hd-dvd's and blu-ray's (!) from now on?
Quote from: mogwai on November 29, 2007, 09:29:15 AM
are you going to re-buy all your owned dvd's on hd-dvd and blu-ray? or will you stop buying dvd's and only buy hd-dvd's and blu-ray's (!) from now on?
The unit shipped out today, so I see by next week. But from what I've read, the upconversion of regular DVDs is excellent, so I probably won't, or need to, rebuy my DVDs; only ones that have exclusive extras (Batman Begins) or that I really want in HD (Matrix). Same idea from here on out since HD and Blu-Ray discs are twice as expensive, and some (lesser) titles I wouldn't need to own in HD. But I really want to see the Zodiac Director's Cut and Blade Runner in HD.
Ok so this is a dumb question, but if I have a regular dvd player and an HDTV, can I watch non-hd dvds on my tv? I'm about to buy an HDTV from a friend, it's a good deal, but do I need one of those upconverting players?
Quote from: Gamblour. on November 30, 2007, 11:20:27 AMOk so this is a dumb question, but if I have a regular dvd player and an HDTV, can I watch non-hd dvds on my tv? I'm about to buy an HDTV from a friend, it's a good deal, but do I need one of those upconverting players?
You'll still be able to play standard DVDs fine. You don't need to buy an upconversion, but it's all a matter of how good a picture quality you want. You won't be getting the benefit of true HD, and the TV's capabilities, with a standard player. In terms of VHS, you'd be getting EP quality when you know SP looks better.
ok thanks for that. To clarify my ignorant concerns, I will be getting rabbit ears for my tv. Ah technological pastiche.
Gamblour, you don't have to buy an upconverting DVD player but its well worth the price. I bought an Oppo 980H this week for $170. It can also play discs from any region.
If you've got the hdtv and are looking to upconvert, there are two Oppos that get universally great reviews...Ravi's is one of them. But I would suggest just getting either an HD DVD player or a Blu-Ray Disc Player. The HD DVD/Blu Ray players are not that much more expensive (especially the HD DVD players) than a good upcoverting player, they upcovert SD dvds just as well as the Oppos of the world, and they also play high definition dvds. It seems to me that the upcovert player is just a temporary fix...potentially VERY temporary. I'd hate to spend $175-$200 bucks on something that you may not use in 6 months to a year. The other side of the argument is the format war and the risk with buying one of the high def players. I would counter that by pointing out a high def player you purchase now will always be able to upconvert your standard def dvds just like a stand alone upconvert player, and it will always be able to play the high def dvds you purchase specifically for that player. And if that particular format "wins", or there is some sort of arrangement to release everything in both formats, you are set for quite a while. Whereas with a stand alone upconvert player will only play standard def dvds. Just a few thoughts.
I'll just chime in and agree with Sunrise that upconverters are just a temporary fix to deal with the fact that High Definition displays have matured much faster than High Definition media. And the price you'd pay for a good up-converter like an Oppo isn't much short of a HD-DVD player that does that job, too.
Quote from: MacGuffinNow, I await a sale on a Blu-Ray player (eyeing Panasonic's DMP line which was voted runner-up).
Mac, have you considered the PS3 as a Bluray player? I've heard it is the best Blu-ray player available (including stand alone players twice the price) - fast load times, and excellent firmware updates. If Blu-ray were to fall through, it would still offer potential as a console, even if its just to sell on.
Quote from: Redlum on November 30, 2007, 05:20:49 PMMac, have you considered the PS3 as a Bluray player? I've heard it is the best Blu-ray player available (including stand alone players twice the price) - fast load times, and excellent firmware updates. If Blu-ray were to fall through, it would still offer potential as a console, even if its just to sell on.
I looked into after NEON posted his PS3 review, but I was concerned about the audio on the player:
QuoteMovie watching
Since the PS3's debut, we've seen several Blu-ray players from Samsung, Panasonic, LG, and Sony itself. And none of them generally perform any better than the PS3, even though they cost more (twice as much or more in some cases). HD movies look superb on the PS3, which can output video at full 1080p resolution via its HDMI 1.3 port. The only slight downside to the PS3's Blu-ray performance is the audio: While the PS3 can decode Dolby TrueHD and pass along PCM output via HDMI, it cannot decode DTS-HD Master Audio and currently lacks bitstream output (for external AV receivers to handle the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio decoding) which is available on newer standalone Blu-ray players like the Panasonic DMP-BD30 and Samsung BD-P1400. It's currently unclear whether Sony will be able to enable internal DTS-HD Master Audio decoding or bitstream output with a firmware update. The other disadvantage compared with standalone Blu-ray players is the lack of multichannel analog outputs, which means you'll need to have an HDMI-capable receiver to take advantage of high-resolution audio.
http://reviews.cnet.com/consoles/sony-playstation-3-40gb/4505-10109_7-32733577.html?tag=txt
I haven't bought an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player yet because the discs are more expensive than standard DVD, and I'd only buy a select few titles right now anyways. In a year the prices will be lower and the players will be improved.
Got the new tv, gave it a test run with the final scene in Hot Fuzz, un-upconverted and everything. Apparently it was quite the upgrade for me, my old tv never had sound this good and the image is just great, even with the little bits of artifacts and such. I love it.
first off, i am glad to see mac and redlum going high def. is there anyone else that i've missed? and gamblor went and grabbed an hdtv-nice :yabbse-grin: i got a few questions to all of the xixax hdtv owners... what the basic specs of your tv?
for example, i own a: samsung 40" lcd 720p/1080i
do you guys have plasma, dlp, lcd? whats the size? did you pay up and go 1080p?
i did my research and popular opinion is that if you're tv is 40" or less, than there is no reason to go 1080p native. (you won't tell the difference) is this correct for any xixaxer that has 1080p and 40" or less?
i agree w/sunrise on the upconverter sd-dvd player. if you just bought or have a hdtv, then just go buy a hd-dvd player! its a little more but besides the fact that you're experiencing high def film, you also have an upconverter too. so, if you look at the worse case scenario which would be that if hd-dvd lost the format war, you still have an upconverter. basically, if you are going to spend the money on a hdtv you are basically taking a step to the side when buying a sd-dvd upconverter, and not a step forward like you would be doing if you went blu/hd-dvd. seriously, show off your hdtv with high definition films. there should be no excuses!
i also believe that by the middle of next year, everyone here needs to go high def. i've mentioned before that you owe it to yourself as film aficionados to make the leap. if anything, 2001 in high def will make a believer out of skeptics. and hopefully we will see a cmbb high def release.
not everything is perfect though in high def land. some times people get lazy (IMO) and the supposedly "high def" films no better than an upconverted dvd. this is a good website to keep you in the right direction: highdefdigest.com (http://highdefdigest.com)
mac, i still think in terms of price, features, easy firmware upgrades, and quality the ps3 is a great deal. you are correct in terms of the audio though. but right now i still live in a small apartment and i have 5.1. i will be getting married by the end of the year and subsequently moving into a house (hopefully) and at that time i will upgrade to 7.1. that's when i the audio issues of the ps3 may come about. but who knows by then maybe there will be a firmware upgrade to improve this for the ps3. the ps3 is too much of an all-in-one media center to not purchase it in my opinion.
anyways, glad to see people going high def, and i await to see what future purchases you guys get as far as hdtvs, high def players, and what films you got and your opinions in the "i just bought thread"
Quote from: pyramid machine on December 03, 2007, 09:58:08 PM
i did my research and popular opinion is that if you're tv is 40" or less, than there is no reason to go 1080p native. (you won't tell the difference) is this correct for any xixaxer that has 1080p and 40" or less?
I'm watching my HD on a good quality 20" Widescreen LCD computer monitor and there is most certainly a difference between 1080P and 720P. The
40" and under rule is kind of strange because it doesn't take into consideration an equally important factor, and that is how far you are sat from the screen. The other advantage to a 1080p screen is that it is displaying the source with 1:1 pixel mapping meaning that it doesn't have to do any resizing of the image.
Quote from: pyramid machine on December 03, 2007, 09:58:08 PM
not everything is perfect though in high def land. some times people get lazy (IMO) and the supposedly "high def" films no better than an upconverted dvd. this is a good website to keep you in the right direction: highdefdigest.com (http://highdefdigest.com)
Highdefdigest is a good site but their terminology for the video portion of the review can be quite misleading. It is not possible for an upscaled DVD to get close to the resolution of a High Definition disc and I think they often take this as a given when reviewing a film. When they talk about a
good transfer or a
bad transfer they (and most other sites) are most often, referring to the condition of the negative, and the colour timing and the general image quality. So remember that DVD is still just DVD, regardless of whether it's been upscaled.
Right now all these reviews are tailored to tech-geeks who mainly want to buy films as demonstration-discs that will impress on their new equipment.
Quote from: Redlum on December 04, 2007, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: pyramid machine on December 03, 2007, 09:58:08 PM
i did my research and popular opinion is that if you're tv is 40" or less, than there is no reason to go 1080p native. (you won't tell the difference) is this correct for any xixaxer that has 1080p and 40" or less?
I'm watching my HD on a good quality 20" Widescreen LCD computer monitor and there is most certainly a difference between 1080P and 720P. The 40" and under rule is kind of strange because it doesn't take into consideration an equally important factor, and that is how far you are sat from the screen. The other advantage to a 1080p screen is that it is displaying the source with 1:1 pixel mapping meaning that it doesn't have to do any resizing of the image.
you are correct in terms of viewing distance, but in the end...determining the size and viewing distance, 1080p is not a must...
here's a post from avsforum.com (http://avsforum.com) that breaks it down
Originally Posted by CruelInventions
The independent experts all tend to agree on this point.. 1080p is just about the least important factor in picture quality particularly if you are seated outside the physical boundaries where our human eye can no longer discern the resolution differences. This is a sliding distance scale which depends on screen size in relation to seating distance. Here's one such chart example:
http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads...ance_chart.pdf (http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads...ance_chart.pdf)
Color accuracy, contrast, black levels, scaling/processing all come before resolution in importance. The smaller the panel, the less important resolution becomes UNLESS you will be using the panel as a computer monitor (where you'll often be seated within 4ft. of the display, and at a distance that close, you will much more likely notice & appreciate the difference). On a 37" panel, for example, you have to be within 5ft. to tell the difference. And that's under ideal circumstances.
Disregard any poster who suggests otherwise. They are seeing something other than the true difference between 1080p & 720p when they claim they can tell the difference even on smaller (37"-42") panels beyond 5-6ft. The difference they claim to see is likely to be in the processing of non-native signal, i.e., panels will typically display their native rate better than they can a lesser resolution which the panel then has to scale to match it's own.
If you have a 1080p 42" panel, for example, assuming for a moment that you are seated outside the optimal seating boundary for fully resolving (seeing) 1080p content, the panel will still often look better displaying 1080p content merely because it doesn't have to scale the resolution. Feed the 1080p panel some other lesser resolution which then must be upscaled to match the panels 1080p native rate, then on all but the most expensive panels with excellent processing, the image will look inferior not because 720p is a lesser resolution, but because the panel simply cannot do a very good job scaling it. Or, maybe the panel handles scaling these duties well, but the particular 1080p model just so happens to have better color rendition, contrast, etc., than another particular example of a 720p panel, and as a result, it looks better under any circumstances, regardless of their comparative resolution capabilities.
I'm having trouble opening that pdf.
5ft for a 37" screen is pretty interesting. Yes, I'd agree 1080p is not a must but playing a 1920x1080 disc on a 1366 x 768 pixels doesn't make mathematical sense. Nor does 1280x720 (720p) pixels, for that matter. 1366x768 is a bizarre compromise with VGA resolutions for PCs and is not ideal for playing Bluray or HD-DVD.
Quoteassuming for a moment that you are seated outside the optimal seating boundary for fully resolving (seeing) 1080p content.....the image will look inferior not because 720p is a lesser resolution, but because the panel simply cannot do a very good job scaling it
If there was a true 720p screen (i.e. 1280x720 pixels) the financial saving would make sense, I think.
I recently got the ViewSonic N4280p, which is a 42" 1080p, hooked up to my PS3.
So I'm not sure about the 720p issue going on here. But I am confident enough to keep my PS3 as a BD player and I'm going to be supporting the Blu-ray format now...
Wow, I'm already impressed. The HD player upconverts to my 72" DLP (and although it says 1080p on the front, the HDMI in the rear only takes 1080i :yabbse-huh:) beautifully; it really does look near-HD quality. I was having some issues with my old Sony player (seen on page 1) where, I dunno if it was the age of the player or my eyes are better trained in seeing picture quality flaws, I could see the pixelization of the picture. On Ratatouille, the scene on the bridge where Linguini is to dispose of Remy, the midnight blue sky showed no definement; the blues and the white street lamps looked like globs. But the Toshiba completely fixed that. And the sound is better enhanced. You can hear Remy scamper off screen right then behind you, then hear his footsteps come from the back speakers as he returns to Linguini.
I already sold off the Sony player on Amazon so I got some money back.
I don't have an HD DVD yet (I'll go tomorrow), so I haven't tested that quality yet, but I'm already happy so far.
So Mac, does this mean you've chosen to go with HD DVD format for good? What persuaded you to go HD and not Blu-ray?QuoteNow, I await a sale on a Blu-Ray player (eyeing Panasonic's DMP line which was voted runner-up).
Ah, never mind...
So I did a comparison of DVD and HD versions of Transformers, and the difference is, well, clear. The level of clarity is apparent. I'm sure the picture would look even better on a smaller screen (the small picture-in-picture looks damn near perfect), but blown up to 73" the colors are still crisp and some details just pop; a gun's laser sight or computer graphics and effects. The sound continues to overwhelm me; Dolby Digital Plus is amazing. It's not LOUD (it is, how I play it) with layer upon layer of sound on top of each other, but you can hear every distinct sound effect and how they work the speakers; never overpowering the center/dialogue speaker.
Oh yeah right, you could do PIP with your HD player?
Quote
Oh yeah right, you could do PIP with your HD player?
With some running commentaries:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedigitalbits.com%2Farticles%2Fmiscgfx%2Fcovershd%2Fbatmanbeginshddvdmenu01.jpg&hash=721afee49f5c9b794bc8f6c0bf088e9a8d7f40c6)
That is awesome. I never knew about these special features of HD so, I apologize if I appear to be a little behind on the technology.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. And all these fancy things make me reeeeeally want to get an X-Box 360 and the HD drive.
Select Blu-ray discs $9.99 to $13.99 (http://www.jr.com/JRSectionView.process?Section_Path=/Promos/Movie03/)
Quote from: Gamblour. on December 07, 2007, 01:36:33 PM
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. And all these fancy things make me reeeeeally want to get an X-Box 360 and the HD drive.
get a PS3, cuz blu-ray owns 75-80% of the global market. HD DVD is limited as well, they're using the max capacity of discs, blu ray pays off in the long run because they have tons of room to expand
There's is a lot of noise going round about the possibility of some major announcements taking place at Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, that could have a drastic effect on the "format war". Christmas is going to be a criticial time anyway with regards to sales so I would recommend seeing how these two points plays out.
OK, so I just got a 42" 1080p Westinghouse. I know, a name better associated with washer/dryers than TVs, but it was a decent price, it's got 4 HDMI inputs and it looks great, so...
I'm looking to get an upconvert 5.1 at a reasonable price. The idea is that I'll get the upconvert now and then, when I'm in the market for HD/Blu-ray/360/PS3/whatever, I'll get those and plug them straight into the TV.
But I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find answers for:
1) Do upconvert DVD players upconvert to 1080p or are they all 1080i? I haven't found anything that says it upconverts to 1080p, only 1080i.
2) Is finding a 1080p upconvert (if it exists) worth it if I'm just going to end up getting a HD/Blu-ray/360/PS3/whatever in the next year or so?
3) Should I look for a 5.1 system that has an HDMI input so I can get 5.1 sound from cable and the HD/Blu-ray/360/PS3/whatever? Or will an optical digital audio input suffice? Because I'm having the hardest time finding one that has an HDMI input in my price range (under $300). If the optical works just as well or close enough, then I'll just go with that.
Any help will be greatly appreciated. That's not a promise of monetary or sexual compensation, just, you know... thanks.
Make sure the receiver actually delivers audio output from the HDMI slot. I got the Yamaha HTR-6050 (which is around your budget, $300) and I found out it doesn't send sound over HDMI, just video. But it's fine, you still have optical output and it's a solid unit for 5.1. I'm not too sure what to recommend, if you plan to get an HD or Blu-Ray player sometime soon, I'd probably suggest you go for it right away. The PS3 up-converts and the new 2.1 update just released yesterday:
QuoteThe version 2.1 upgrade will bring native support for the video format either stored locally or streamed across the network. It should also bring the anticipated Blu-ray Final Standard Profile support that allows the console to use picture-in-picture commentary and other special features previously reserved only for the newest stand-alone movie players.
It really all comes down to what you are willing to spend now vs. how much you will spend in the long run. A couple of your questions were addressed earlier in the thread. I have the Panasonic BD30 Blu-ray player and it is phenomenal. It upconverts my regular dvds to 1080p and the image is great. It's not high definition but it's awefully close. I screened my Children of Men standard dvd late last week and was more than pleased with the picture.
Upconverting quality depends on three things: (1) the quality of the dvd transfer (general rule is that newer films/dvds will upconvert better than older ones, etc.); the player; and your television. Most of the well-reviewed HD-DVD or Blu-ray players will upconvert your dvds to 1080p just as well if not better than stand alone upconvert players. But there are some good ones out there (see Oppo's line and check out the reviews of Oppo's player on CNET). If you have a really good television it will also upconvert but your standard def. dvd player will likely only have a component output and not hdmi. My thought in going with the Blu-ray player was that I was going to switch over to high definition eventually so I didn't want to buy an upconvert player now and a high-def player in a few months. It's almost like buying a dvd and then they come out with a special edition later. Except this time the special edition is already available. I'm rolling the dice with the Blu-ray player a little bit but if it happens to lose the "format war", the hd dvd players will be quite cheap and my Blu-ray player will always be able to play my BR discs and standard dvds. My hunch, however, is that Blu-ray will be the choice format for high def in the future.
As far as the audio/receivers portion of your question, I'll have to defer to the audio experts on the board.
Hope this helped a little.
Quote from: H.(sparro)W. on December 19, 2007, 12:37:21 PM
1) Do upconvert DVD players upconvert to 1080p or are they all 1080i? I haven't found anything that says it upconverts to 1080p, only 1080i.
Some convert to 1080p, some only convert to 1080i. You'll have to look at the specs. The Oppo 980H (which I own) upconverts to 1080p and has an HDMI output.
Quote2) Is finding a 1080p upconvert (if it exists) worth it if I'm just going to end up getting a HD/Blu-ray/360/PS3/whatever in the next year or so?
Its up to you. I recently got an HDTV but have no plans to buy an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player so I got the Oppo. You can still use your old DVD player until you buy an HD media player. I don't know if the PS3 or 360 or any of the HD or BR players can do region-free, if that is important to you. Maybe the video game systems have a hack for it.
Quote from: H.(sparro)W. on December 19, 2007, 12:37:21 PM1) Do upconvert DVD players upconvert to 1080p or are they all 1080i? I haven't found anything that says it upconverts to 1080p, only 1080i.
In this week's Best Buy ad, they have a Sony upconversion (model #DVPNS77H/B) to 1080p on sale for $79.99. Don't know how good it works, but just saying they do exist.
Quote from: H.(sparro)W. on December 19, 2007, 12:37:21 PM2) Is finding a 1080p upconvert (if it exists) worth it if I'm just going to end up getting a HD/Blu-ray/360/PS3/whatever in the next year or so?
I don't know what your budget is, but I say go the HD or Blu-Ray route, even if it means holding off a bit; save that upconversion money until you can accumulate more cash. Manufacturers are slashing the prices on units. Just this week, Sony dropped the price of their Blu-Ray BDPS300 to $300. Toshiba has done the same with some of theirs.
Quote from: H.(sparro)W. on December 19, 2007, 12:37:21 PM3) Should I look for a 5.1 system that has an HDMI input so I can get 5.1 sound from cable and the HD/Blu-ray/360/PS3/whatever? Or will an optical digital audio input suffice? Because I'm having the hardest time finding one that has an HDMI input in my price range (under $300). If the optical works just as well or close enough, then I'll just go with that.
If you can find a receiver in the price range, then get the one with true HDMI output because that will factor in better in the long run. Otherwise, I'm using an optical cable with my Yamaha HTR-5860 and the sound is excellent in 5.1 and 7.1. Make sure you have a great set of speakers too.
Studio support for each format in the US (please add to or correct as needed):
Blu-Ray
Buena Vista
Disney
Fox
Lionsgate
New Line Cinema*
Sony
Warner Bros*
HD-DVD
Image Entertainment
New Line Cinema*
Paramount
Rhino
Universal
Warner Bros*
Weinstein Company
*denotes studios that support both formats
This looks like it could be the real deal. If so, it would finally mean the end of the format war:
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN0432340820080104
QuoteNEW YORK/LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Time Warner's Warner Bros studio plans to announce it will release next generation DVDs on Sony Corp's Blu-ray format exclusively, two sources familiar with the plans said on Friday, dealing a big blow to Toshiba Corp'sHD DVD format.
Warner Bros, Hollywood's biggest seller of DVDs representing about 18 to 20 percent of sales in the United States, had been one of the few studios that backed both formats.
News Corp's 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Co, and Lions Gate Entertainment Corp are among studios backing the Blu-ray format. Viacom Inc's Paramount studios and General Electric Co's NBC Universal, owned by General Electric Co and France's Vivendi, release movies in HD DVD format.
An announcement is expected shortly, the sources said.
(Reporting by Kenneth Li in New York and Bob Tourtellotte in Los Angeles, editing by Gerald E. McCormick)
...I assume they checked their sources.
CONFIRMED: http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN0432340820080104
That is FANTASTIC if it holds. Just last week Warner reps were quoted as saying the company was going to continue to release in both formats, but going exclusively Blu-ray really does make sense for it.
I'm VERY happy with my HD player. Don't regret it one bit. But in the months since I've had it, I've noticed that the stores cater more to the Blu-Ray customer; their in-stock and sale prices and deals reflect that. I feel that Blu-Ray is more of a "consumer" product and that HD is geared more for the cinephile. From the reviews I've read and personal experience, Warner paid closer attention to picture, bonus features and especially sound on their HD releases than their Blu-Ray ones and certainly moreso than any other studio. There's a reason why Matrix is only available on HD. I was planning on getting a Blu-Ray anyway, and this announcement will probably speed up the process, but I wished that Warner still stayed in both camps because I feel that down the line I'll be using my Blu-Ray player more, and seeing my HD player on the same shelf as my laserdisc player. Here's hoping that they release the Kubrick HD box before May.
Quote from: MacGuffin on January 05, 2008, 12:36:25 AM
I feel that Blu-Ray is more of a "consumer" product and that HD is geared more for the cinephile. From the reviews I've read and personal experience, Warner paid closer attention to picture, bonus features and especially sound on their HD releases than their Blu-Ray ones and certainly moreso than any other studio.
Their Blu-Ray and HD releases weren't identical? Are there any major inherent differences between the two formats?
Does this mean New Line will also only be supporting Blu-Ray?
Yes New Line will move with Warner to Blu-ray exclusivity. However, Warner will continue to release on HD-DVD until May this year.
According to Warner no money changed hands in order for them to make this decision. I they've been pretty classy in their handling of of it even if they did get a big payoff.
HD-DVD have cancelled their conference at CES this week: "We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps". I hope they will gracefully concede defeat so that Blu-ray can get on with the important task winning the hearts and minds of consumers, away from DVD.
All the remaining HD-DVD Warner titles, such as Batman Begins and The Matrix Trilogy are expected to be strategically released on Blu-ray (possibly with higher bit-rate encodes) in the coming months i.e. Batman Begins when The Dark Knight is released. Obviously this makes sense in light of Warner's decision but it is also made technically possible now that Blu-ray supports the Picture-in-picture video commentary feature (on the latest player models and the playstation 3).
The sad thing is there really was very little difference between the two formats, however in the end I believe it was Sony's PS3 strategy which resulted in this outcome.
what a fecking waste of discs. hopefully one day there will be a cool monument/fort made of the hd's. that would be something at least. a pantheon with beta for the roof would be good too.
An insight from Michael Bay:
http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9716#post9716
Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!
Bay
Quote from: Ravi on January 05, 2008, 01:23:10 AMTheir Blu-Ray and HD releases weren't identical? Are there any major inherent differences between the two formats?
With some releases, picture quality was better on HD and only their HD discs had Dolby TrueHD sound.
Now since Blu-ray is on the up, I am sorta happy but then not really. The idea of Sony's proprietary ways prevailing is kinda iffy...
so i was going to exchange a portable dvd player xmas gift for a better one cause it made the image all pixely, and i waited a few days for no real reason, the format war was won, and i decided i wanted to plunk down some extra money and get a blu-ray player instead. the cheapest player was a ps3. i feel awful right now getting something so big out of nowhere. but there it is. today has been more giving than christmas. in a purely materialistic way.
Congratulations, now all you need is a copy of Blade Runner on Blu-ray and Rock Band.
Out of curiosity did you happen to get the minimal 40GB model or 80GB?
I don't actually play Rock Band... not yet.
minimal :yabbse-undecided:
i'll report back when i get an hdmi cable..
Blu-Ray takes inside edge in war with HD-DVD
Up to 20 firms backing HD-DVD consider defection after Warner opted for Blu-Ray and Paramount is poised to follow
Source: The Times UK
The sprawling consortium of technology and media companies assembled to promote the HD-DVD format of next-generation high definition discs faces a spate of defections to the rival Blu-Ray Disc consortium.
As many as 20 companies currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group could be preparing to remove their names from the alliance's 130-strong membership list, The Times has learned.
Paramount yesterday emerged as the latest major Hollywood studio poised to switch allegiances.
Despite the huge armies of technology companies ranged against each other in the format showdown, Paramount has turned out to be a pivotal figure. Its decision in August to give exclusive backing to HD-DVD was seen as a potentially devastating blow to the prospects of Blu-Ray, and to the strategy of Sony's president, Sir Howard Stringer.
Sir Howard consistently argued, though, that the Playstation3 games console, which includes a Blu-Ray disc player, would put the format in people's living rooms around the world more quickly than HD-DVD players would be adopted by consumers. But Paramount, like other members of the HD-DVD group such as Fujitsu, Lenovo and Kenwood, has hedged its bets. It offered exclusivity in August on the basis that it could reverse the decision should Warner Bros switch to Blu-Ray.
The threatened exodus from the HD-DVD format follows last week's decision by Warner Bros to back the rival Blu-Ray Disc format, whose main technology backers include Sony, Apple and Dell.
One Tokyo-based analyst said that the defections could represent the final nails in the coffin of Toshiba's HD-DVD standard after a bitterly-fought "format war" that has run for a little over one year.
Eiichi Katayama, of Nomura Securities, said that the battle between the formats, which display films and video games more sharply in an era of ever-growing television screen sizes, was now "entering its final phase".
Pony Canyon, a major Japanese music, animation and film studio and part of the giant Fuji Television media empire, said that although it was currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group, the decisions of US studios meant it would "choose Blu-Ray in the end".
Several other Japanese firms – including content producers and electronics component makers – said that their support of HD DVD was "under review" and that they knew of many others in the same position. Others, who admitted that they had previously been waiting for "clear market momentum", said that it had now probably arrived.
Backers of HD-DVD point to the relative ease of producing the discs, and the lower cost of building machines capable of reading them. Unlike previous format wars, particularly the notorious Betamax v VHS skirmish in the 1980s, the war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD has effectively been decided in boardrooms, rather than electronics showrooms. The decisions of the major studios have come well before those of customers, who have generally held back from picking one format for fear of backing a loser.
Facing a future with only Universal Pictures as its major Hollywood supporter, Toshiba and HD-DVD, said analysts at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, could quickly find itself isolated. But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD's list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.
Paramount in HD DVD blow (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/dc409afa-bd75-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fdc409afa-bd75-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedigitalbits.com%2F&nclick_check=1)
By Matthew Garrahan and Mariko Sanchanta in Las Vegas
Published: January 8 2008 02:49 | Last updated: January 8 2008 02:49
Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD after Warner Brothers' recent backing of Sony's Blu-ray technology, in a move that will sound the death knell of HD DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end.
Paramount and DreamWorks Animation, which makes the Shrek films, came out in support of HD DVD last summer, joining General Electric's Universal Studios as the main backers of the Toshiba format.
i feel bad for HD, it has a better name. it makes more sense, its cover art is slightly less obnoxious, it's cheaper. bluray has always rubbed me the wrong way but if this fucking stupid thing can just end already and they can drop the prices that'd be pretty sweet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7187179.stm
Blu-ray future limited for some
Owners of Blu-ray DVD players may find themselves frozen out of future developments in the technology because their machines are not upgradeable.
The Blu-ray camp has recently rolled out new features for players, which include picture in picture options.
But the majority of Blu-ray players sold to date do not have the necessary hardware to offer the features.
Some discs already come with a note telling users that they may need to upgrade software in their machine.
In some discs, the note reads: "To ensure the best possible viewing experience, your Blu-ray disc player may need a firmware or software update."
But these updates relate to improvements in playback and do not offer a pathway to the new features.
The issue has arisen as Blu-ray attempts to offer new features to compete with rival standard HD-DVD.
When the first Blu-ray machines were launched the hardware requirements for manufacturers did not include provision for planned developments.
Instead Blu-ray players were divided into so-called "profiles", with all machines released before November 2007 designated as profile 1.0.
Machines released onto the market since November are called profile 1.1, but none of the standalone Blu-ray players can be upgraded to accommodate this profile.
Films will still play on the machines, but access to extra features is limited.
Later this year the Blu-ray camp will offer profile 2.0, called BD Live, which will allow the players which support the feature to connect to the internet to download related content, such as ringtones, trailers and photos.
But because internet functionality is not a mandatory requirement in current players, none on the market today will be able to access the feature.
The only Blu-ray player which can upgraded to use all the features is Sony's PlayStation 3, because it comes with the right hardware built-in and online access.
Consumer confusion
Frank Simonis, of Philips and the European chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association, said the division of Blu-ray players into potentially three camps was "not an ideal situation".
But he denied that consumers would be confused.
"Whether you have a profile 1.0, or profile 1.1 machine, the playback is not disturbed. It's the high definition playback that consumers are seeking."
Philips has just released its first player which supports profile 1.1 and Mr Simonis confirmed that older players could not be upgraded.
Mr Simonis said the reason Blu-ray backers had launched players which could not be upgraded was one of timing.
He said: "The discussions relating to features took place at a point in time when every hardware company had frozen the architecture for their first generation of players.
"We needed to create momentum and get the players on the market. If we had postponed launch to add in the hardware for the latest features, we would not be in the situation we have today."
The release of players which cannot be upgraded was unlikely to ease consumer confusion around high definition DVD players, said Alastair Upham, editor of DVD Review magazine.
"One of the big problems with the Blu-ray format when launched, and something which gave the HD-DVD camp ammunition, was that Blu-ray wasn't finished - they hadn't agreed on a standard.
"And that problem means that an early adopter of Blu-ray could have spent £1,000 on a player only to find he potentially can't play newer releases.
Blu-ray boost
"So while there are discs out there with better features, if you have an earlier player you can't take advantage of this."
The Blu-ray camp received a boost at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas last week when film studio Warner dropped support for HD-DVD in favour of its rival.
But Mr Upham said the format had a lot of work yet to do to reassure consumers they are safe to upgrade from DVD.
He added: "If Blu-ray wants to reach a wider audience, it needs to have more clarity."
But he said the likely victims of the Blu-ray profiles issue was almost certainly a limited audience.
"The guys that bought the first Blu-ray players are the guys who bought the first laser discs. They know the risks."
The Downfall of HD-DVD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ)
but with all this hoopla, which way will the porn industry go? So far, I've seen more HD DVD's out there then Blu-Ray. But Vivid, the company that now owns the rights to Debbie Does Dallas is putting it out on both HD DVD and Blu-ray. So, the war hasn't yet on that side anyway.
Quote from: SiliasRuby on January 15, 2008, 09:17:45 PM
but with all this hoopla, which way will the porn industry go? So far, I've seen more HD DVD's out there then Blu-Ray. But Vivid, the company that now owns the rights to Debbie Does Dallas is putting it out on both HD DVD and Blu-ray. So, the war hasn't yet on that side anyway.
I can't see the video because I'm at work and these jerks block youtube, but the porn industry doesn't have the weight they once did... because of the internet.
Some exciting stuff from Warner Brothers about their intentions for Blu-ray this year. Every catalog re-issue they make will be accompanied by a simultaneous Blu-ray release.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
Warner have been doing a great job with the two formats, and I feel HD-DVD lost more than just sales volume when Warner went exclusive.
Two Retailers Favor Blu-ray DVDs
By REUTERS
The Best Buy Company, the consumer electronics chain, said Monday that it would recommend that consumers choose Sony's Blu-ray high-definition video format.
The decision gives Sony yet another victory in the battle with HD DVD, from the Toshiba Corporation, to be the high-definition DVD format of choice.
Earlier Monday, the online video rental company Netflix said it would exclusively stock Blu-ray DVDs after some of the world's biggest movie studios decided in favor of that format.
Best Buy said it believed consumers would benefit from the choice of one high-definition format.
Best Buy will prominently feature Blu-ray hardware and software beginning in March, but will also carry HD DVD products for customers who want those, Best Buy said.
Toshiba to drop HD DVD, sources say
Company says no decision has been made
Source: Hollywood Reporter
The format war has turned into a format death watch.
Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May.
Officially, no decision has been made, insists Jodi Sally, vp of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," she said.
But she hinted that something's in the air. "Given the market developments in the past month," she said, "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."
Immediately after the Warner announcement, the HD DVD North American Promotional Group canceled its Consumer Electronics Show presentation. The following week, data collected by the NPD Group revealed Blu-ray took in 93% of all hardware sales for that week.
Toshiba subsequently fired back, drastically cutting its HD DVD player prices by as much as half, effective Jan. 15. But a hoped-for consumer sales surge never materialized; retail point-of-sale data collected by the NPD Group for the week ending Jan. 26 still showed Blu-ray Disc players ahead by a wide margin, 65% to 28%.
Software sales have declined as well. The latest Nielsen VideoScan First Alert sales data show the top-selling Blu-ray Disc title for the week, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment's "Across the Universe," sold more than three times as many copies the week ending Feb. 10 as the top HD DVD seller, Universal Studios Home Entertainment's "Elizabeth: The Golden Age." Blu-ray Disc titles also accounted for 81% of all high-def disc sales for the week, with HD DVD at just 19%.
Toshiba had been pitching its discounted HD DVD players toward the standard DVD crowd as well as high-def enthusiasts, noting in its ad message that the new players would make DVDs look a lot better as well. And as a last-ditch effort, the company ran an ad during the Super Bowl -- a 30-second spot that reportedly cost $2.7 million.
But in the end, sources say, the substantial loss Toshiba is incurring with each HD DVD player sold -- a figure sources say could be as high as several hundred dollars -- coupled with a series of high-profile retail defections has driven the company to at last concede defeat.
"An announcement is coming soon," said one source close to the HD DVD camp. "It could be a matter of weeks."
Microsoft is the other big player in the HD DVD equation. Last fall when Paramount Home Entertainment announced it was dropping its dual-format strategy and would release titles only in HD DVD, giving that side a brief resurgence, a pitch to journalists for interviews came from a Microsoft email address.
Several phone calls to Kevin Collins, Microsoft's normally accessible "HD DVD evangelist," were not returned. Nor were calls to Ken Graffeo, the Universal Studios Home Entertainment executive who doubles as co-president of the HD DVD North American Promotional Group.
When Warner abandoned HD DVD in January, the format was left with just two of the six major studios backing it, Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Paramount Home Entertainment. Blu-ray support among independents is rising. ADV Films, Tai Seng Entertainment, Topics Entertainment and National Geographic have all confirmed they are going Blu-ray exclusive, while more than one indie that was releasing titles just on HD DVD, including Surround Records and Opus Arte, will now offer Blu-ray as well.
This week, two key retailers, Best Buy and Netflix Inc., both got off the fence and threw their support behind Blu-ray exclusively, citing widespread studio support and consumer preference. Both companies said Warner's decision was a turning point in their strategies.
"We've listened to our customers, and we are responding," said Best Buy president and COO Brian Dunn.
Netflix spokesperson Steve Swasey said it appeared the format war had been won by Blu-ray for the benefit of everyone.
"We wanted to put an exclamation point behind that," he said.
Industry observers are closely watching Amazon, but there's been no movement, other than a 50% off sale for 150 HD DVD titles, including "Transformers," "Zodiac" and "Stardust."
Blockbuster Inc. last summer already decided to offer only Blu-ray Disc titles at its company-owned rental stores.
BDA Praises Wal-Mart On Blu-ray Exclusivity
Posted February 15, 2008 by Josh
Source: Blu-ray.com
Blu-ray Disc Association The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) US Promotions Committee chairman Andy Parsons has released a statement regarding Wal-Mart's announcement that beginning this June they will be exclusively supporting Blu-ray: "Retailers have a tremendous impact on consumer preferences, and as the world's largest retailer, Wal-Mart's reach and leadership are unparalleled. Their decision to support only Blu-ray, particularly in light of the string of similar announcements from the content and retail communities over the last six weeks, seems to us to be a very clear statement that Blu-ray Disc has emerged as the format of choice for high definition home entertainment."
The following is a time line released by the BDA to show the impact of Warner Brothers' decision to exclusively support Blu-ray. While it highlights the major moves in the home video industry, it should not be considered complete. Many smaller, but no less important, moves were made during the past six weeks, which readers of this site are familiar with.
1/5: Warner Bros. announces exclusive Blu-ray support
1/28: Gartner announces "HD DVD's price cuts only prolong agony"
1/29: Woolworths, a leading U.K. retailer, announced it would offer exclusive in-store support for Blu-ray beginning in March
1/30: Sonic announced that it will focus its R&D resources on Blu-ray and will conclude sales of its HD DVD authoring product line
1/30: National Geographic announced it will no longer release titles in the HD DVD format
2/11: Netflix announces that, citing a clear signal from the industry, it will only carry Blu-ray Discs and will phase out HD-DVD
2/11: Best Buy announces it will recommend Blu-Ray as the Customer's Digital Format Choice
2/15: Wal-Mart announces that by June 2008, Wal-Mart and Sam's Clubs stores will carry Blu-ray only
so i got my tax refund and i'm thinking about spending a chunk of that on EITHER
an iPhone
OR
a BluRay player.
thoughts? also: i don't play video games (except for Rock Band at work) so is there any advantages to getting a regular BluRay player as opposed to a PS3? drawbacks? should i just get an iPhone instead?
the ps3 is cheapest and can update itself. the only slight drawback is the lack of remote, but i find the controller pretty easy to use. if you get a non-ps3, be sure it has either the latest "profile" or can update itself.
Quote from: modage on February 16, 2008, 02:02:36 PMso i got my tax refund and i'm thinking about spending a chunk of that on EITHER
an iPhone
OR
a BluRay player.
Why not use the Bush economic refund on the other item you don't get and have both?
Quote from: modage on February 16, 2008, 02:02:36 PM
so i got my tax refund and i'm thinking about spending a chunk of that on EITHER
an iPhone
OR
a BluRay player.
thoughts? also: i don't play video games (except for Rock Band at work) so is there any advantages to getting a regular BluRay player as opposed to a PS3? drawbacks? should i just get an iPhone instead?
mod if you have a TV with a 1080 res capability, I would certainly recommend investing in a Blu-ray player. Don't bother getting the PS3 if you're not going to use it for gaming, especially if you have a good audio system set up. I think Mac was saying before, the PS3 has a "not-so-great" audio output compared to other Blu-ray players on the market having said that, picolas was right on suggesting a player that can update itself. On the other hand, now with HD exiting the market, I wonder if May-June will bring some great deals on players which could potentially save you lots of money... and the iPhone would sure entertain you until then... It's a tough call.
when is that Bush refund coming?
and what BluRay player should i get?
Quote from: modage on February 17, 2008, 09:44:45 AM
when is that Bush refund coming?
I heard May, but I'm not 100% sure.
Quote from: modage on February 17, 2008, 09:44:45 AM
and what BluRay player should i get?
This Panasonic is regarded as the best value stand-alone player on the market right now.
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Video/Blu-ray-Disc-Players/model.DMP-BD30K_11002_7000000000000005702
Cons
It won't internally decode the new HD audio formats.
You will still need your regular DVD player if you have any Region 2 PAL imports.
It won't retain it's value like the Playstation 3 (which a remote-control is available for) will.
I use a PS3 for Blu-ray only and have come to think of it more as a media centre. It has lots of extra functionality in this area over all other players such as the ability to playback music and television shows from your computer, over a wireless/fixed network.
this is all part of a conspiracy. they want me to buy a ps3 now.
Quote from: modage on February 17, 2008, 09:44:45 AMand what BluRay player should i get?
When looking for an HD player, I used CNET as a resource based on their reviews. This is their list of top HD and Blu-Ray players:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4370-9991_7-197-102.html?tag=dir
Quote from: Redlum on February 17, 2008, 11:48:23 AMThis Panasonic is regarded as the best value stand-alone player on the market right now.
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Video/Blu-ray-Disc-Players/model.DMP-BD30K_11002_7000000000000005702
That's the one I've been looking at based on the CNET review.
Toshiba Announces Discontinuation of HD DVD Businesses
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr1903.htm
Paramount seals Blu-ray sweep
Winner of next-gen format war now has all 6 majors
Source: Hollywood Reporter
All six major Hollywood studios are now in the Blu-ray Disc camp, a day after Toshiba has pulled the plug on HD DVD and Blu-ray became effectively the only next-gen game in town.
Paramount Home Entertainment quietly came onboard via a statement sent exclusively to The Hollywood Reporter on Wednesday: "We are pleased that the industry is moving to a single high-definition format, as we believe it is in the best interest of the consumer," the statement reads. "As we look to (begin) releasing our titles on Blu-ray, we will monitor consumer adoption and determine our release plans accordingly."
No further details were given.
Universal Studios Home Entertainment, in contrast, cast its lot with Blu-ray within hours of Toshiba's announcement Tuesday morning that it was ending the format war by ceasing the development, manufacture and marketing of HD DVD players by the end of March. Universal made a big splash with its announcement, sending media outlets a statement from division president Craig Kornblau in which he said, "While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray."
Janet Murray, director of Georgia Tech's masters and Ph.D. program in digital media, said a single format supported by all six major studios has a much better chance of success than two rival ones that each take only a chunk of Hollywood.
"It's a big victory for the consumer," she said.
Now that the studios are no longer battling each other over which format is best, Murray said, they can focus on generating awareness among consumers of the many benefits of high-definition media. Murray predicts "a standardization of extras" now that everyone's releasing films on a single format rather than two, each with its own set of capabilities. "This will lead to a much richer experience for viewers," she added.
Murray also foresees "much more content and much more breadth of content" now that Blu-ray is the only way to go. "When people have these higher-end screens at home, they take great pleasure in them, and this will push ahead the delivery (of movies) in high-definition," she said.
Ironically, Universal had been exclusive with HD DVD since the format's launch in April 2006, while Paramount had initially supported both HD DVD and Blu-ray. Paramount and DreamWorks switched to HD DVD-only in August, reportedly after receiving a $150 million payment from the format's supporters for "promotional consideration."
Neither studio has announced specific titles earmarked for early Blu-ray release, though both are expected to start with new theatricals coming the same day as the standard DVD, beginning in late spring or early summer.
The four other majors committed to Blu-ray are Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment (along with its distributed MGM Home Entertainment label), Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment and Warner Home Video (including distributed labels New Line Home Entertainment, BBC Video and HBO Video). Mini-major Lionsgate also has been an exclusive Blu-ray backer since the start.
Quote from: MacGuffin on February 17, 2008, 02:36:42 PM
Quote from: modage on February 17, 2008, 09:44:45 AMand what BluRay player should i get?
When looking for an HD player, I used CNET as a resource based on their reviews. This is their list of top HD and Blu-Ray players:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4370-9991_7-197-102.html?tag=dir
Quote from: Redlum on February 17, 2008, 11:48:23 AMThis Panasonic is regarded as the best value stand-alone player on the market right now.
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Video/Blu-ray-Disc-Players/model.DMP-BD30K_11002_7000000000000005702
That's the one I've been looking at based on the CNET review.
Mod...I have the BD30 and it is terrific. As noted, it cannot update itself automatically like the PS3, but I can't imagine the picture quality being any better than this stand alone. Also, the updating process is VERY easy. Two weeks ago I downloaded a firmware update from Panasonic's site onto a cd, simply put the cd into the BD30, and about 3 minutes later the machine was updated from version 1.1 to 1.4. My guess is that even better players will be coming out this summer and fall as all companies will now be focused on blu-ray, but the BD30 is a great and I wouldn't trade it for any other player at the moment. I would read up on the lossless audio issues and make a call on your own to determine if that is a big issue for you. CNET and avsforum site are both great for research and reviews.
Mod, here's your answer. Some great players coming.
Sony Announces Two New Blu-ray Players
Posted February 26, 2008 07:38 AM by Josh
Sony Sony Electronics has announced two new players to their Blu-ray line, the BDP-S350 and the BDP-S550. When released, both will not only be BonusView (Profile v1.1) players, but will also be BD-Live (Profile v2.0) ready, meaning they can be updated via firmware to full BD-Live compatibility. The BDP-S350 will ship sometime in the Summer for $400, followed in the Fall by the BDP-S550 for $500.
The BDP-S350 will offer 1080p24/60 output via HDMI, an Ethernet port, and decoding of 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD. The player will also be capable of bit streaming Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution, and DTS-HD Master Audio to a capable receiver. Additionally, it will support for the expanded xvYCC color space during playback of AVCHD discs, and compatibility with most BD, DVD, and CD media.
In addition to having all the features of the S350, the BDP-S550 will feature 1GB of persistent storage. Additionally, it will decode DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio and feature 7.1 analog outs.
Both players will feature a slim design to match upcoming Sony Home Theater in a Box (HTIB) products.
Source: Blu-ray.com
I swear I was only going to buy Darjeeling, but, damnit, Best Buy has this Open Box Blowout Sale going on, and I found a good deal on the Panasonic BD30K. I was planning to get a Blu-Ray before No Country came out in a couple weeks, and with the TWBB news I just read, I'm glad I got it.
You won't be sorry. It's a really good player. Gotta love unintended buys.
Quote from: MacGuffin on February 16, 2008, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: modage on February 16, 2008, 02:02:36 PMso i got my tax refund and i'm thinking about spending a chunk of that on EITHER
an iPhone
OR
a BluRay player.
Why not use the Bush economic refund on the other item you don't get and have both?
Dumb idea. Everyone needs to put the Bush refunds in the bank and let them collect interest. :yabbse-grin:
Quote from: MacGuffin on February 26, 2008, 02:31:07 PM
I swear I was only going to buy Darjeeling, but, damnit, Best Buy has this Open Box Blowout Sale going on, and I found a good deal on the Panasonic BD30K. I was planning to get a Blu-Ray before No Country came out in a couple weeks, and with the TWBB news I just read, I'm glad I got it.
I got a great deal on the same player as well, after a month with it now I think it's great. I've updated the firmware via cd-r with no problems. I'm trying not to geek out and go crazy on the blu purchases, but I've grabbed the few essentials available and quite happy I did. It upconverts all standard dvd's really well, IMO.
I am taking the plunge, getting a PS3 soon. Yes, with the refund. The mrs ain't happy, but I can't see how you would could want anything else: it upconverts, it's all region, it's blu ray, the Simpsons game. I'm fucking beyond excited.
Blu-ray Price Drop Coming
More bang for your Blu-ray buck in the fall.
Blu-ray prices could be about to drop. That's a good thing for early adopters of the emerging high-definition home video format who are currently shelling out just shy of $30 a pop for newer titles.
Word on the street (via High-Def Digest) is that Warner Bros. could start an industry-wide price-cutting trend when they trim wholesale prices on Blu-ray titles in the fall. That's expected to reduce the sticker price of new releases to under $20. Cheaper catalogue titles would likely be reduced to around $15.
The price cut could be a strategic reduction based on gloomy economic forecasts, but with the latest sales figures showing DVD and Blu-ray sales are holding up just fine in the current environment, it's more likely that the drop is due to increase in production efficiency and a growing distribution network.
Consumers should start seeing Blu-ray disc prices dropping significantly by the holiday season.
That's all fine and good, but if you're looking for a deal sooner than later, check out this hot deal we spotted over at Amazon this morning. They're running a "Buy 2, Get 1 Free Blu-ray Sale," on 109 select titles.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/High-Def_Disc_Marketing/Industry_Trends/Warner/Warner_to_Offer_Discounted_Blu-rays_Beginning_this_Fall/1901
I'd like to own one before November and Criterion's first couple of releases, but I'm afraid because I hear contradicting information from tech nerds.
Please help:
1. No matter what I get I can update the player, correct? What some people tell me is that Blu Ray players are soon going to incorporate some of the HD DVD player's technologies that the Blu Ray lacks. As in take some good ideas from the losing team. If that happens, will I be okay, or a generation behind.
2. We can speculate on price drops and I've been holding out for $200. We're at mid 300 now. It won't drop to $200 by November, but is $200 likely by post-Christmas season? I could hold out.
3. Seriously no interest in owning a PS3 as a gaming system. Zero interest. If I'm waiting for the price to drop, and the price is dropping, it's not still worth getting a PS3 right?
Thanks.
Quote from: w/o horse on August 22, 2008, 02:09:19 PM
1. No matter what I get I can update the player, correct? What some people tell me is that Blu Ray players are soon going to incorporate some of the HD DVD player's technologies that the Blu Ray lacks. As in take some good ideas from the losing team. If that happens, will I be okay, or a generation behind.
Yes. You can check the manufacture's site for firmware updates. If you don't ungrade through the internet, you can call the company to mail you a CD.
Quote from: w/o horse on August 22, 2008, 02:09:19 PM2. We can speculate on price drops and I've been holding out for $200. We're at mid 300 now. It won't drop to $200 by November, but is $200 likely by post-Christmas season? I could hold out.
Hmmmm... Guess it would depend on make and model, and what you're looking for. A $200 unit would seem like a low end player. I would do some research on picture quality before buying a model just because the price is right.
Quote from: w/o horse on August 22, 2008, 02:09:19 PM3. Seriously no interest in owning a PS3 as a gaming system. Zero interest. If I'm waiting for the price to drop, and the price is dropping, it's not still worth getting a PS3 right?
I dunno 'bout that. I didn't go for the PS3 because the reviews I read said that it didn't have the best sound quality, and I wanted something that would go well with my 7.1 system.
So, it might have been a stupid plan, but I found an pretty high end HD-DVD player on Craigslist for $40, and bought it.
I've been seeing how ridiculously cheap HD-DVD's have been selling for now that the hardware is irrelevant... but I figure the technology will be just as worthwhile as Blu-Ray until even Blu becomes obsolete. Plus, there's a lot of titles I can get now that I'd have to wait around for on Blu...
And they're cheap.
Picked up Darkman, Eternal Sunshine, Zodiac, Big Lebowski, Casino, Hot Fuzz, King Kong, and Shaun of the Dead.
Also, this idea began to fester because I was pissed Universal couldn't even be bothered with a Lebowski blu last week.
Obsolete or not... they do make very pretty pictures.
Should we change the title of this thread to Blu-Ray?
Okay, help me out with this, if you can...
A couple weeks ago, I bought a used HDTV... I can't afford top of the line new shit, but I was sick of the dinky standard def that I've had for almost ten years so I picked this up on Craigslist for $200:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41GXK35H1AL._AA280_.jpg&hash=bc9b3bffe5229f237a128493a8f7f2732892ee83) (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KD-34XBR970-34-Inch-Trinitron-Digital/dp/B000F4RC02)
It's a couple years old and weighs a ton... now the difference to me is immediately better because I have been watching such a crummy tv for so long (also, the blacks are much blacker than any flat panel I've ever seen), but it's not 1080p and it's a little older so I was wondering if a blu-ray player is going to make much of a difference over an upconverted DVD.
For example, I have The Office Season 4 dvd and they showed a rerun of a season 4 episode last week which I watched in HD and the difference between that and my non-upconverted dvd player with component out was NOT super noticible. noticible, but not that much... and I'm wondering if once I get a DVD player that upconverts, is it really going to be that much different to get a blu-ray player?
Obviously, the ideal solution would be to get a new TV AND the player, but that's NOT going to happen so I just need to figure out if it's worth it because:
1: The TV is older and not 1080p
2: I've read most blu-ray players (other than the PS3) are not upgradable to 2.0
3: I don't have a crap load of money and it's pretty much blu-ray or surround sound (anyone recomend a cheap SS set up?)
Thank you all in advance
I'd say, if it's not at least 1080i, there's probably not a considerable difference between an upconverting DVD player and a BLu-Ray player. The Blu-Ray will downgrade to whatever your TV displays.
I brought my Blu-Ray to my folk's house and played it on their TV - which, I think is 760 and compared the exact same film on Blu-Ray to their DVD player with component video and noticed no difference.
So, I'd recommend a nice little 5.1 system with optical audio... you're pictures only gonna get as good as it can right now, but your audio can sound really fucking good on a small budget. I got a 5.1 Panasonic for around $200 about a year and a half ago and I still love it. Doesn't have an HDMI hook-up, but it's good enough for my (semi) discerning tastes.
What size is the TV? if it's under 40in, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between 720 and 1080.
If your TV is real heavy, it's probably a CRT? The CRT HDTV's are the best imo. Unfortunately, they don't make them anymore. I had a CRT HD and it looked amazing. It broke and so I bought an LCD and it just doesn't look as good. The CRT was in 480i and it still looked better than my LCD 720p. I think it has to do with the glass screen. It shines more. If that makes any sense.
Yeah, if you click on that picture, you'll see the specs there... it's a CRT.
They display the blacks better for sure... it's a richer picture, BUT the resolution on a CRT is not as sharp as that of the newer flat panels. It goes to 1080i, but I've heard that 720p is better for movie-watching than 1080i.
it's 38 inches, that's the largest HD CRT you can get... I've heard the same thing about not telling the difference on a smaller screen, but does that just go for 720 vs 1080 or does that also go for DVD vs Bluray? I assume with Blu-ray, it's not just the resolution that the colors are richer, right?
I learned all about the quality of 1080 today and the difference between LCD and plasma television sets. So yeah, I picked up a 42inch plasma tv today.
Amazon has this now, similar to what Circuit City has been running - Samsung player for $214.44 and you get the Matrix box for free
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BD-P1500-1080p-Blu-ray-Player/dp/B0014H16V0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223821557&sr=8-1&tag=blurayforum-20
Best Buy is now selling one of its Insignia brand Blu-ray Disc players for just $199, after a $30 in-store discount. That's more than $40 off the SRP. It's Profile 1.1 compatible, so you'll get to access all the BonusView features on the latest discs, though it isn't compatible with BD-Live/Internet connection. You can read more here at Home Media, and here's Best Buy's online store page for the unit.
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/high-def/best-buy-sells-blu-ray-player-below-200-13728
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8777344&st=blu-ray&type=product&id=1204332499513
One day deal only... $139 for a Memorex. (http://www.woot.com/)
1.1 compatible.. not 2.0... probably not the best player out there, but for the price I'm considering it.
So, just to clarify, it makes virtually no sense to buy a 32 inch 1080p?
Sharp Aquos Blu Player on sale at Sears for $179
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05757968000P?sid=I0084400010000100312&aff=Y (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05757968000P?sid=I0084400010000100312&aff=Y)
this code gets you an extra 10% off
ASEARSHOLIDAY1
Quote from: nix on November 18, 2008, 02:41:43 AM
So, just to clarify, it makes virtually no sense to buy a 32 inch 1080p?
Not really. I mean, if you find a good deal comparable to one for 720p, I wouldn't pass it up, but you're not going to notice differences until 37 or most likely 42in.
Disney to Include DVDs with Blu-ray Releases
Source: Video Business
Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment will include a standard-definition DVD copy within many of its 2009 Blu-ray Disc releases, reports Video Business.
After success including a standard DVD of Sleeping Beauty within the film's Oct. 7 Blu-ray release, Disney plans to do the same with all Blu-ray titles starting with the March 10 bow of Pinocchio running through to the October rollout of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. It is estimated there will be approximately seven such forthcoming standard/high-def 'Combo Packs.' Disney's Feb. 17 Blu-ray release of High School Musical 3: Senior Year also will feature a standard-def DVD.
Although Disney will face some additional cost with this dual-format strategy, the studio wants to help people enjoy the titles in more places within the home, says the trade. Families can watch the movies on their primary Blu-ray-equipped home theater systems, but also on existing standard DVD players elsewhere in the home. This expansion is similar in concept to digital copy, which allows DVD/Blu-ray buyers view titles on physical set-top machines as well as computers and portable media devices such as iPods.
"There is some expense, but we think that it is worth it," said Lori MacPherson, Disney general manager of North America. "Families now have Blu-ray players. But they don't have Blu-ray players in every room. There is now utility for all of their [DVD] players, and families aren't penalized [by not being able to use them] when they buy a Blu-ray title."
Additionally, Disney hopes to persuade standard DVD households, possibly considering purchasing a Blu-ray player soon, to upgrade to the combo Blu-ray version.
"Families planning to buy a Blu-ray player can still buy the movie now," added MacPherson.
The studio also plans to include a digital copy on 14 of its upcoming Blu-ray releases.
Wow interesting from a company that was one of the last to even jump on board the DVD train.
Anyone been following the fallout (http://theplaylist.blogspot.com/2009/02/french-connection-photographer-haaaates.html) from the new transfer on the new French Connection Blu-Ray? I had the release for a while but after watching Friedkins justification of the hokey image manipulation that anyone could apply in FCP/After Effects, I sold it fairly quickly opting to stick with the Fox 5-star dvd.
We all know about directors tinkering with their films to correct practical mistakes but is fundamentaly changing the entire look of a film a bigger crime against the history of cinema? Is the director god when it comes to choices like this or should there be mandatory consultation with someone as prominent as a DP? Obviously the film is ultimately the property of the studio that paid for/bought it but I wonder whether this should be a matter for the corresponding guilds, too. I mean, look at the fuss kicked up back during the colourization of Capra's films.
An untampered with transfer should have been offered, sure but what about those incidents where the original gets lost/destroyed/neglected (Lucas, I'm talking to you) - that is screwing with film history.
Quote from: Redlum on March 04, 2009, 11:01:54 AM
Anyone been following the fallout (http://theplaylist.blogspot.com/2009/02/french-connection-photographer-haaaates.html) from the new transfer on the new French Connection Blu-Ray
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/03/open_letter_to_1.php
Quote from: Stefen on November 19, 2008, 09:24:30 AM
Quote from: nix on November 18, 2008, 02:41:43 AM
So, just to clarify, it makes virtually no sense to buy a 32 inch 1080p?
Not really. I mean, if you find a good deal comparable to one for 720p, I wouldn't pass it up, but you're not going to notice differences until 37 or most likely 42in.
yes! i believe if your hdtv is over 42in....go 1080p...if not fuck it
WB is awesome.
http://www.red2blu.com/
Amazon is having a sweet deal on Panasonic Blu-Ray players. I just upgraded mine:
BD60 (http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMP-BD60-1080p-Blu-ray-Player/dp/B001V9LA44/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1245185497&sr=1-1) for $210.
BD80 (http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMP-BD80-Channel-Blu-ray-Player/dp/B001V9LA4E/ref=pd_ybh_1?pf_rd_p=280800601&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_i=ybh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1KF6ZB8EKYTASRNF4V8B) for $275.
The BD80 has 7.1 surround analog outlets if you have a receiver that doesn't support TrueHD, etc. through a HDMI cable. Otherwise, the BD60 is all you need.