The War Zone

[ElPandaRoyal]

Looking at that Four Rooms thread and the whole Tim Roth discussion, his directorial debut came to my mind. "The War Zone", a small british movie, briliantly directed by Roth and with fantastic performances by everyone in the cast. An intense drama about a family... a great gem of a movie, in my opinion.

Care to share your thoughts?

[rustinglass]

I saw that one, It's pretty hard. Great performances, specially Ray Winstone.
Tim Roth's dedication at the end is disturbing as hell.

Colin Farrel has a small part in it too.

[Pubrick]

i wish more ppl had seen this so we could talk about the ambiguities of the ending. i know JB, GB, and GT hav.. so u better read this.

it's amazing, really, the way that at the end of the film we are left battling in our minds the same dilemma Tom (the kid) started with.

vvvv SPOILERS BEGIN NOW vvvv

there's a couple of things that i would like cleared up. what happened in London? tom was gonna do the old chick, then his sister interrupted, then the next scene they're both half naked and she's crying. i've heard that Tim Roth removed a certain scene around this time that would've shown Jessie sort of abusing her little brother. but since it was removed, what are we left to think at that point? that's the first ambiguity, which i appreciated more after the film ended.

which brings me to the final scene.

[Tom and Jessie sit in the concrete shelter, huddled to themselves]
Tom: Is he dead?
[silence from Jessie]
Tom: Is Mum okay?
[silence from Jessie]
Tom: What're we gonna do?
[After a moment, Tom gets up and shuts the door to the shelter]

and we're left to think a multitude of things. now let's go through each one and the evidence to support it..

1. they fucked. The original book by Alexander Stuart made it clear that they did end up doing it. his belief was that abuse is a self-perpetuating cycle. i know this because from what i've read, Tim Roth was well aware, and decided that the film would not bluntly take that position. it really is a hopeless way of thinking about it. we might assume that due to the fucked up nature of the family situation, and tom's creepy silence, that he was prolly a little turned on by his sister, but that's just in our dirty minds. Roth would expect us to consider that scenario. in regards to the film, it betrays certain clues which suggest this final act of destruction need not take place. one thing remains true for all these endings: the sadness will never end.

2. they probably didn't fuck. this is as far as we can go in distancing ourselves from the possibility. two key moments make me think that they didn't screw in that godforsaken shelter. FIRSTly, tom's message to his mother at the hospital. it's a major turning point for his character where he makes decisive action. Tom's action of revealing to his mother the dangers of their abusive father, and then becoming the protector by stabbing him, solidifies in our minds how strongly he feels about the girls. SECONDly, the question "is mum ok?", and how he hoped his mother would hav turned up at the shelter (asking "mum?" before jessie appears). we should recall that when the father went nuts and hit jessie for staying out too late, the mother intervened and set order in the house. she must help the kids if this is to work.. Tom hopes she does.
tom says "Is he dead" = did i succeed in becoming the protector, can the cycle be broken by strong-willed youth (albeit through an equally base measure).
tom says "is mum ok" = is there hope out there?
tom says "what're we gonna do" = right now, here, in this place where horrible things hav happened, our last refuge.. here on the frontier.

my guess.. hold hands, and never let go.

3. i guess we'll never know. ain't that the truth. this is specifically referring to a rare piece of useful insight from the extras on the DVD. Roth said that in most situations like this, the only people who know what is going on are the ones involved. this rings very true with the ending, Tom locked us out of the shelter in his last conclusive action as protector, and whatever goes on inside.. . let's back up for a sec and take note that the father ostensibly appeared to be a great dad, in all but one scene where he turned evil and in that one photo. we know he is not so great because we witnessed what he did. similarly, my Tom protector-theory could be dismissed in a second if something did go on. i do believe it's unlikely, but like i said at the beginning of this paragraph.. .


things to remember..
there is reason to believe they hav a choice.
roth himself is a survivor of abuse, tho i think not by his father.
---

finally, Lara Belmont has fabulous Bristols.

[Ghostboy]

If only all arguments had closing statements so good.

In seriousness, though, good breakdown. I haven't seen the movie since it was in theaters. I remember loving it (the kind of love akin to being horrified and upset), but in the years since I've heard various dissenting remarks, talking about how Roth was just trying to be shocking, etc, or one-up Gary Oldman's Nil By Mouth (which is also great). I don't buy it, but I'd like to see it again to get a second impression.

[Weird. Oh]

Darn I bought this on VHS along with 5 other movies for 3.50 a piece but can't watch it because I don't have a VCR now I must get it so I can watch this. It looks really good

[Pubrick]

in the years since I've heard various dissenting remarks, talking about how Roth was just trying to be shocking, etc, or one-up Gary Oldman's Nil By Mouth (which is also great).

no shit, are those sources reliable or were they just speaking crap cos it's better than nil by mouth?

i havn't seen NBM, but from what i hear it's also quite hardcore.. no hot chicks that i remember. i'll hav to check it out.

[Ghostboy]

It's depressing on a far more subtle level, but there are faint tinges of hope here and there. It's also a family drama starring Ray Winstone as an abusive dad, so that's one big similarity.

[Cecil]

i really liked the framing of the shots in this movie. i should see this again

[godardian]

I love this movie, and am only slightly disappointed that the DVD doesn't have a better transfer. I first saw it with bad projection at the Portland Intn'l Film Festival a few years back, and was very moved, very impressed.

I've yet to see Nil By Mouth, but I'm blind-buying the DVD soon. I love all the neo-kitchen sink stuff out of England, Mike Leigh and these other movies mentioned, the Thatcher/post-Thatcher stuff that's really biting, astringent, cathartic.

I don't see any shock-value gimmickry in The War Zone, BTW. I know that's the line against it, but I just don't see it. It's just a very serious, very somber, very well-done film that shatters the viewer. That's something I can praise freely.

[lamas]

just wanted to say that Nil by Mouth is out on DVD on the 23rd.  i saw it on video and desperately needed the subtitles.  i don't think i could make out half the dialogue.

[Pwaybloe]

just wanted to say that Nil by Mouth is out on DVD on the 23rd.

All right.  "Nil by Mouth" was extremely good.

Continuing with "War Zone," I hope others in the US are finding better luck renting it.  I had it as my #1 on Netflix so long that "Very Long Wait" turned into "Just pick another DVD.  Damn."  

Obviously you can't find this at Blockbuster or Hollywood, but even my trusty independent store doesn't carry it.

[pookiethecat]

i actually saw this film on cable one night.  the scene of anal rape was terrifyingly graphic but not as harrowing on an emotional level.  it struck me as pure sensation, given that the sex was more interesting than the characters.  i remember watching and thinking that the characters were not interesting people; they did not have distinct personalities.  and i could not identify with their tragedies.  the actual scenes were rather boring and visually ugly, if i recall.