Does The Matrix Make Sense?

[Mesh]

See the phone booths aren't there but the portals are.  The phone booths are just numbers represented visually by the phones.  They're just interface, like icons on your desktop.

While Morpheus and his gang understand that they're not really phones, Neo is really the only ONE that can see everything for what it actually is, which gives him more control.  Look at what happens in that last battle, he sees the walls and ceiling as ones and zeros, that's what it is... he sees beyond the interface, he can see the code and can therefore defy it better.

So, we can't see beyond one yet... Ghostboy has, but most of us haven't... maybe Neo can now move back and forth without the phones because of his new abilities.

That's pretty much the answer I've been looking for in this thread.  That's the one I gave my friend when he mentioned the phone-portals as logical flaws....

Now lemme go read the rest of the thread...

[Mesh]

See the phone booths aren't there but the portals are.  The phone booths are just numbers represented visually by the phones.  They're just interface, like icons on your desktop.

Shit, I thought about it for a minute, and it's starting to not make sense anymore.

OK, so the Nebuchadnezzar can "hack into" the Matrix, right?  Now, it's a pretty safe assumption that the Matrix is a virtual world, basically analogous to, say, the Internet.  Once you have access to the Internet, you can "be" anywhere on it; shouldn't that hold for the Matrix?  Is there some reason it shouldn't?

If the phone booths are just numbers, why do they have to portal near them?

I dunno, I'm probably overthinking this (what else is new?).  If it is a true logical plot hole, it's not a big one.  And if the rebels could've ported into and out of any area of the Matrix instantly, it would've been harder to convince the audience of it being a dangerous place, I suppose....

Shit.

[Mesh]

Can anyone quote for me what Morpheus says about the "rules of the Matrix"?  He has some lines right near the Morpheus/Neo kung-fu battle about "gravity" and other physical laws that still hold in the Matrix....Does he say anything about locations?

[MacGuffin]

Can anyone quote for me what Morpheus says about the "rules of the Matrix"?  He has some lines right near the Morpheus/Neo kung-fu battle about "gravity" and other physical laws that still hold in the Matrix....Does he say anything about locations?

Morpheus: This is a sparring program. Similiar to the programmed reality of The Matrix. It has the same basic rules; rules like gravity. What you must learn is that these rules are no different than a computer system. Some of them can be bent, others can be broken.
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Also:

Morpheus: I've seen an agent punch through a concrete wall. Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air, yet their strength and their speed are still based in a world that is built on rules. Because of that, they will never be as strong or as fast as you can be.

[Mesh]

Morpheus: This is a sparring program. Similiar to the programmed reality of The Matrix. It has the same basic rules; rules like gravity. What you must learn is that these rules are no different than a computer system. Some of them can be bent, others can be broken.
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Also:

Morpheus: I've seen an agent punch through a concrete wall. Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air, yet their strength and their speed are still based in a world that is built on rules. Because of that, they will never be as strong or as fast as you can be.

Excellent work, MacG.  Thanks.  Too bad those lines don't do what I'd hoped they might.  Goes nowhere as to explaining why virtual phones within the Matrix are such special entry/exit points, yet, if he wants to, Morpheus can make words appear on Neo's computer screen.

[Raikus]

Why is this concept so hard to get?

The crew of the Nebuchadnezzar get into the virtual reality program the same way you hack into a system. They find a back door (or the hardline) and insert themselves into the program. It just so happens that the programs recognizes these entry points as telephones. Not all telephones are entry points to the Matrix program, but all entry points are telephones. They can't exit their consciousness from the program unless they find another exit/entry point. The cell phones are just communication devices between the Operator (crew still on the ship) and those who's consciousness have been inserted into the Matrix (think Star Trek communicators). The number they can call on the cell phones in the Matrix represents a frequency that exists in the real world--hence they are merely using them as radios to the contact on the ship.

The reason that they can't exists "anywhere" while in the Matrix is because it exists with rules based on the real world. The program is set up so you can't just access another piece except by the hardline insertion. Obviously Neo breaks this principle as much as possible in Revolutions when he flies to get to Morpheus and Trinity. But that's all he can do. He can't beam directly to another place because, even though he realizes it's a program, he can't break these rules.

[Mesh]

The crew of the Nebuchadnezzar get into the virtual reality program the same way you hack into a system. They find a back door (or the hardline) and insert themselves into the program. It just so happens that the programs recognizes these entry points as telephones. Not all telephones are entry points to the Matrix program, but all entry points are telephones. They can't exit their consciousness from the program unless they find another exit/entry point.

OK, so let me take your "hack in" theorem through logical inquiry.  Let's assume hacking into the Matrix is like our real world's hackers hacking in to, say, Microsoft.  Real world hackers don't have to "hack out," do they?  You'd just switch off the device you used to hack in and you'd be gone, right?  Why can't Nebuchadnezzar's Operator do the same, i.e. why do non-physical beings inside a program have to go to these non-physical "things" (the phones) in order to "get out" of the Matrix, which is non-physical itself?

You say: "They can't exit their consciousness from the program unless they find another exit/entry point."  But the question is Why? and Does that fact make any sense at all?

[MacGuffin]

if he wants to, Morpheus can make words appear on Neo's computer screen.

You think there are no hackers in that world? Neo is one himself.

[Raikus]

The crew of the Nebuchadnezzar get into the virtual reality program the same way you hack into a system. They find a back door (or the hardline) and insert themselves into the program. It just so happens that the programs recognizes these entry points as telephones. Not all telephones are entry points to the Matrix program, but all entry points are telephones. They can't exit their consciousness from the program unless they find another exit/entry point.

OK, so let me take your "hack in" theorem through logical inquiry.  Let's assume hacking into the Matrix is like our real world's hackers hacking in to, say, Microsoft.  Real world hackers don't have to "hack out," do they?  You'd just switch off the device you used to hack in and you'd be gone, right?  Why can't Nebuchadnezzar's Operator do the same, i.e. why do non-physical beings inside a program have to go to these non-physical "things" (the phones) in order to "get out" of the Matrix, which is non-physical itself?

You say: "They can't exit their consciousness from the program unless they find another exit/entry point."  But the question is Why? and Does that fact make any sense at all?

Okay, this will be the last time I explain this, because frankly you passed annoying twenty posts back.

You're comparing of the process that happens in the Matrix with real world hacking is apples and oranges. I merely used it as an example about having to find a way into a system. Real hackers don't insert their consciousness into a program. They also don't have cerebral interfaces in the back of their skulls (most anyway). It's obvious that the Matrix is designed to keep people's consciousnesses trapped in a program that they believe is real life to use their energy to power the robots. So of course the operator can't just hang up their cell phone, terminate connection and their consciousness will return to their body, otherwise every time another person in the Matrix went to sleep or got knocked out they would wake up in a pod.

I realize your trolling for ammo with your friend, but I think you have enough. Every angle is covered showing there are no obvious plot holes. Continuing to reiterate the same questions long after they've been answered is annoying.

If you want a beef with the Matrix, you should really concentrate on the "prophecy" aspects of it. That is, if the Oracle is all-knowing that trustworthy, why did she say Neo wasn't the One?

[MacGuffin]

Let's assume hacking into the Matrix is like our real world's hackers hacking in to, say, Microsoft.  Real world hackers don't have to "hack out," do they?  You'd just switch off the device you used to hack in and you'd be gone, right?  Why can't Nebuchadnezzar's Operator do the same, i.e. why do non-physical beings inside a program have to go to these non-physical "things" (the phones) in order to "get out" of the Matrix, which is non-physical itself?

You know how a computer it's not best to just unplug it, but to go through the whole shut down process? Poor example, but same idea. For an Operator to just unplug the spike from the back of their head would fuck with the brain. Remember, the mind makes things real. So to just disappear from the Matrix back to the real world would cause serious damage to their brains.

You say: "They can't exit their consciousness from the program unless they find another exit/entry point."  But the question is Why? and Does that fact make any sense at all?

Like I said, they are like a portals. You have to go in and out through those specific hardlines. You compared it to "Time Bandits" (a film set more in fantasy) why can you accept it in that film, but not "The Matrix" (a film that has more concrete rules)?

[Mesh]

if he wants to, Morpheus can make words appear on Neo's computer screen.

You think there are no hackers in that world? Neo is one himself.

Yeah, so while he's messing around in the Matrix he has time to hack in to people's computers (recall that he's Agent Smith's #1 Most Wanted Man)? I guess he must find the time somehow.....

[Mesh]

Okay, this will be the last time I explain this, because frankly you passed annoying twenty posts back.

Relax, bro.  Aren't we supposed to be discussing movies here?  I'm just tough on sci-fi, is all.

It's obvious that the Matrix is designed to keep people's consciousnesses trapped in a program that they believe is real life to use their energy to power the robots. So of course the operator can't just hang up their cell phone, terminate connection and their consciousness will return to their body, otherwise every time another person in the Matrix went to sleep or got knocked out they would wake up in a pod.

But, dude, Morpheus's rebels specifically AREN'T fooled by the Matrix anymore.  They're no longer trapped, no longer slaves.  They don't believe it's real life, so why would a sudden interruption in it phase them?

Continuing to reiterate the same questions long after they've been answered is annoying.

If I thought the questions had been answered to my satisfaction, I'd quit examining you guys.  You don't want to play, you don't have to.

If you want a beef with the Matrix, you should really concentrate on the "prophecy" aspects of it. That is, if the Oracle is all-knowing that trustworthy, why did she say Neo wasn't the One?

Now that's more like it.  Is she a double agent?  Is she affected by a glitch in the Matrix?  Excellent question to ask.  Let's go to town on it.

[Sigur Rós]

if he wants to, Morpheus can make words appear on Neo's computer screen.

You think there are no hackers in that world? Neo is one himself.

Nerd-Alert!

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, so while he's messing around in the Matrix he has time to hack in to people's computers (recall that he's Agent Smith's #1 Most Wanted Man)? I guess he must find the time somehow.....

Now I getting frustrated with you. You need to watch it again and pay attention.

He's not messing around in the Matrix. Morpheus had just found Neo at that time. Remember, he was looking for the person he believed to be The One. In the opening, Trinity is at a computer trying to find Neo. The Agents find this out because after the truck crashes into the phone booth, they say "The informant is real." "The name is Neo." They get to Neo, they get to Morpheus, hence planting the "bug" on him.

[Mesh]

Like I said, they are like a portals. You have to go in and out through those specific hardlines. You compared it to "Time Bandits" (a film set more in fantasy) why can you accept it in that film, but not "The Matrix" (a film that has more concrete rules)?

In Time Bandits, the portals are treated as holes in the fabric of God's Creation; they transport you from one time/place to another.  That one of those times/places is The Time of Legends (a fantasy setting) is basically irrelevant.  God's Creation can have a Time of Legends if He wants it to.

Apples to Oranges, and I wasn't holding one up as more valid than the other.

As far as The Matrix's "concrete rules"—isn't that what were arguing here?