your appraoch to scripting

Started by Tiff, April 26, 2003, 11:12:59 PM

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jasper_window

#30
August 27, 2003, 10:21:33 AM
thank you, sir.

markums2k

#31
August 28, 2003, 11:04:05 AM
One thing that helps me is, I act out all my dialogue to myself, to make sure it sounds good when actually spoken.  I hate giving awkward lines to actors.  Like, whenever I hear a bad line in a movie, I always think, how could they make them say that??

As far as process, I work all the details out in my head.  A lot of my really great ideas usually come from researching topics for a different idea.  Research itself is also very enjoyable to me.  I enjoy working out the logic behind events in a script, or why certain characters act a certain way.

kotte

#32
August 28, 2003, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: markums2kI hate giving awkward lines to actors.  Like, whenever I hear a bad line in a movie, I always think, how could they make them say that??

Bad sounding lines are often expository lines, They are necessary and hard to write. I'm not excusing bad dialogue but it's harder...but I guess you already know this...

SoNowThen

#33
August 28, 2003, 11:33:00 AM
on the other hand, really good, really complex dialogue is very hard for actors to say as well...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

markums2k

#34
August 28, 2003, 12:26:57 PM
Obviously, there is no definitive guide to 'Good Dialogue'.  But c'mon guys.  I shouldn't really have to explain it.  You guys aren't about to DEFEND bad dialogue, are you?

SoNowThen, are you referring to the 'other' extreme?  The overly-articulate, wordy, Thesaurus speak?  As far as I'm concerned, it's the same thing.  Bad is bad, no matter how it ends up that way.

EDIT: Nevermind, SoNowThen, I think I understand what you mean.

SoNowThen

#35
August 28, 2003, 12:36:22 PM
just in case:

no, I mean like amazing Mamet Dialogue. Ever hear an amateur actor do Glengarry Glen Ross? Makes the dialogue sound like the worst tripe ever.

Great dialogue requires beats and pacing and proper enunciation, etc. It can't just be spoken by anyone.

I can't read any of my dialogue out loud, yet if I get a decent actor to look at it, they can usually make it sing. And they say it's one of my stronger writing talents. Yet it sounds horrid coming from my own mouth...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

markums2k

#36
August 28, 2003, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: SoNowThenjust in case:

no, I mean like amazing Mamet Dialogue. Ever hear an amateur actor do Glengarry Glen Ross? Makes the dialogue sound like the worst tripe ever.

Great dialogue requires beats and pacing and proper enunciation, etc. It can't just be spoken by anyone.

I can't read any of my dialogue out loud, yet if I get a decent actor to look at it, they can usually make it sing. And they say it's one of my stronger writing talents. Yet it sounds horrid coming from my own mouth...

Excellent points.

Find Your Magali

#37
August 28, 2003, 01:10:57 PM
SoNowThen wrote:

QuoteEver hear an amateur actor do Glengarry Glen Ross? Makes the dialogue sound like the worst tripe ever.

Are you referring to the special feature on the most recent DVD of Glengarry Glen Ross, where they have the student actors doing the lines from Baldwin's big speech? Awesomely funny stuff...

SoNowThen

#38
August 28, 2003, 01:51:17 PM
because I live in gay Canada, we get a shit hole version of that dvd, complete with french on the cover to ruin it.


what features do you guys get on your american version?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Find Your Magali

#39
August 28, 2003, 11:02:04 PM
SoNowThen wrote:

Quotewhat features do you guys get on your american version?

--Commentary by director James Foley
--Production notes
--Digitally remastered
--"A.B.C. (Always Be Closing)": an original documentary tracing the psychological intersection of fictional and real life salesman
--A Tribute to Jack Lemmon
--"J. Roy: New and Used Furniture" short
--Scenes with bonus audio commentary by Alec Baldwin, cinematographer Juan Ruiz Anchia, Alan Arkin, and production designer Jane Musky
--Clip archives from The Charlie Rose Show and Inside the Actor's Studio
--Full-screen and widescreen anamorphic formats

In addition, the montage of amateur actors failing miserably at the Alec Baldwin speech is an easter egg.

Cecil

#40
August 28, 2003, 11:08:00 PM
we have the same in canada.

how do you access the easter egg?

Find Your Magali

#41
August 28, 2003, 11:11:45 PM
Cecil B. Demented wrote:


Quotehow do you access the easter egg?


Credit where credit is due...

http://www.dvdreview.com/eastereggs/collect/448.html

Cecil

#42
August 28, 2003, 11:22:09 PM
thank you

SoNowThen

#43
August 29, 2003, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: Find Your MagaliSoNowThen wrote:

Quotewhat features do you guys get on your american version?

--Commentary by director James Foley
--Production notes
--Digitally remastered
--"A.B.C. (Always Be Closing)": an original documentary tracing the psychological intersection of fictional and real life salesman
--A Tribute to Jack Lemmon
--"J. Roy: New and Used Furniture" short
--Scenes with bonus audio commentary by Alec Baldwin, cinematographer Juan Ruiz Anchia, Alan Arkin, and production designer Jane Musky
--Clip archives from The Charlie Rose Show and Inside the Actor's Studio
--Full-screen and widescreen anamorphic formats

In addition, the montage of amateur actors failing miserably at the Alec Baldwin speech is an easter egg.

Hmm, that's my version exactly.... my bad.
I read somewhere that the American version had a documentary about the ten best real estate scams in history. That must have been incorrect info. Too bad, I really wanted to see that...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Weak2ndAct

#44
August 30, 2003, 06:39:02 PM
Hrrmmm... every script always has it's own life (sometimes written fast, slow, in chunks, never finsihed) in my own experience, but what I find works best for me is just one sheet of paper crammed with a loose structure and ideas.  Nothing terribly complex, just enough to get an overview.  A lot changes during the actual writing.  

I read a helpful tip for structuring that's worked for me.  Script should be 120 pages, break your story down into 15 parts, all 8 pages each.  I set 3-4 chunks for act one depending on the story, 3 chunks for act three, and the rest for act 2.  Then just make sure all those little 8 page pieces are great and connect the dots.  Plenty more managable and less overwhelming then having to fill a blank 120 pages.

Other than that, random tidbits that have worked for me:
- Revise the Mamet way, ditch the first and last line of every scene.  Get in, get out fast.
- Don't describe shit unless it's crucial to the story (I've read too many scripts that endlessly describe the weather, cars, houses, furniture-- don't write a novel, leave it to the reader's imagination, they'll fill in the blanks).
- If something's boring to you when you're writing it (exposition, etc.), everyone else will be.  On that same note: AMUSE YOURSELF.  
- Dialogue: no one speaks in complete sentences.
- Take criticism from anyone and everyone.  I've gotten amazing ideas from people who don't read scripts at all.  No script is perfect, it can always be better.
- Read any script you can, good or bad.  Even better if you can get your hands on things that haven't been made yet.
- Most important of all, and often most overlooked: Be aware of how the text looks on the page.  Let the story flow.  Full pages of solid description can be intimidating.  Those action scenes or intense moments should read quickly, space it out, short sentences, be creative.  Slow down when it's needed.  I guess I'm saying be conscious of pace, get in the head of your reader.

There's nothing wrong with writing a bad script, the more you write, the better you'll get.  You're not going to get it perfect right out of the gate.  Like all things, it takes practice.

Enough preaching for today, I'm beginning to think this is a little bloated and self-important... Hope someone finds this useful.
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