American Beauty - the unofficial thread

Started by filmcritic, July 06, 2003, 02:07:41 PM

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Stefen

Good review, Silias. You can really see the improvements in your writing the more you practice. Keep it up.

1999 4EVA.

I found American Beauty to be vastly overrated when I first saw it, but I haven't seen it since. The movies from that year that still hold a place in my heart are Magnolia, Being John Malkovich, Election, Iron Giant and Talented Mr. Ripley.

I need to revisit some stuff like American Beauty and Fight Club and see how it holds up 10 years later.
Falling in love is the greatest joy in life. Followed closely by sneaking into a gated community late at night and firing a gun into the air.

SiliasRuby

I've written alot, I just write they way I talk here.

When I'm working on a screenplay or my novel or something I give a shit about, my writing is better.
The Beatles know Jesus Christ has returned to Earth and is in Los Angeles.

When you are getting fucked by the big corporations remember to use a condom.

There was a FISH in the perkalater!!!

My Collection

private witt

I recently read a review that said 'Revolutionary Road' was Mendes' apology to the world for making 'American Beauty'.  I think he owes us at least that much.
"If you work in marketing or advertising, kill yourself.  You contribute nothing of value to the human race, just do us all a favor and end your fucking life."  ~Bill Hicks

SiliasRuby

It might be over-rated along with fight club but it does hold a special place in my heart along with the ones you also mention stefen.
The Beatles know Jesus Christ has returned to Earth and is in Los Angeles.

When you are getting fucked by the big corporations remember to use a condom.

There was a FISH in the perkalater!!!

My Collection

private witt

Quote from: SiliasRuby on January 28, 2009, 03:31:04 PM
It might be over-rated along with fight club but it does hold a special place in my heart along with the ones you also mention stefen.

I hate that fraternity date rapers love Fight Club.  When people like that like a film like this it makes me want to agree that it's overrated, but then I remember that people like that have no idea what the film's actually about.
"If you work in marketing or advertising, kill yourself.  You contribute nothing of value to the human race, just do us all a favor and end your fucking life."  ~Bill Hicks

socketlevel

i got to this through the 1999 anniversary link.  i know this hasn't been posted on in a while.

Quote from: private witt on January 28, 2009, 06:55:44 PM
Quote from: SiliasRuby on January 28, 2009, 03:31:04 PM
It might be over-rated along with fight club but it does hold a special place in my heart along with the ones you also mention stefen.

I hate that fraternity date rapers love Fight Club.  When people like that like a film like this it makes me want to agree that it's overrated, but then I remember that people like that have no idea what the film's actually about.

http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=4839.0

back in 2003 my first post on xixax was how i thought the form of fight club focused on "cool" film making style rather than substance, which spawned a lot of debate and hate.  i stand by what i said then, it follows a long line of films like the matrix and clockwork orange that confuses quick popular appeal with depth.  if films like this didn't have a sexy way of telling the story i don't think you'd get the "fraternity date rapers" you mention as part of the fan base.  even american beauty suffers from this to a smaller degree, it is a film way more about the process of film making that masks itself as having something to say.
the one last hit that spent you...

ᾦɐļᵲʊʂ

I think you're so wrapped up in pedantic assessment of film that you think Fight Club and American Beauty are about nothing beyond filmmaking. 

Just because a movie is popular doesn't mean it lacks depth.  It may be an easy generalization to say, but then again I think it's more about making wide generalizations than it is concerned with discussing the actual movies.
"As a matter of fact I only work with the feeling of something magical, something seemingly significant. And to keep it magical I don't want to know the story involved, I just want the hypnotic effect of it somehow seeming significant without knowing why." - Len Lye

socketlevel

Quote from: Walrus on July 26, 2009, 11:06:48 PM
I think you're so wrapped up in pedantic assessment of film that you think Fight Club and American Beauty are about nothing beyond filmmaking. 

Just because a movie is popular doesn't mean it lacks depth.  It may be an easy generalization to say, but then again I think it's more about making wide generalizations than it is concerned with discussing the actual movies.

I just think fincher and mendes were so caught up in the film making that they couldn't see beyond the form.  they kinda jacked off to money shots over and over w/o the ability to see what affect overindulgence has on their films.  sometimes cutting quality shots aids the film and rhetoric even if it is at the expense of looking budget and/or traditional.

it's funny you use the word pedantic because i feel that way about the people that read too far into these films; almost as if they need it to mean something. it's just entertainment, therefore i am trying to actually attack the pedantic analysis of these films (even if i do so poorly). trust me when i say that i really feel this on a gut level.  I just see it as cause and effect.  I'll bet you a million dollars everyone approaches these two movies with the wow cool factor, crazy shots, cool dialog etc...  then come to the "meaning" second, justifying their love of the cool to intellectual crowds.  the "fraternity date rapers" mentioned before never get beyond that initial allure... and ironically they don't make a misstep of lying to themselves, even if unintentional.  if the intent is to say something, and get rid of that douche bag crowd, then you gotta make the substance resonate a little louder, or tone the flashy down.

i would love to see a version of fight club and American beauty where form and substance meet. that can manifest itself either as the substance is altered to fit each film better, or as I've previously stated the style chills a bit to meet the lackluster depth.  or they could not change at all, but were seen for what they are.  i don't loath these films, even though admitidly in the past i might have said so in the heat of debate, i just don't see what the big deal is.

it's not popularity that gets under my skin.  in certain circles i find myself defending the mainstream.  it's about getting your head outta that entire debate.  The Game and Revolutionary Road were both brilliant and very popular films (and as you know by the same directors i criticized) .  both have drastically different depths to them, yet i loved them both immensely because the style suits the story.
the one last hit that spent you...

pete

"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton


SiliasRuby

I found it funny but I still love the film all the same.
The Beatles know Jesus Christ has returned to Earth and is in Los Angeles.

When you are getting fucked by the big corporations remember to use a condom.

There was a FISH in the perkalater!!!

My Collection

Alexandro

Quote from: socketlevel on August 01, 2009, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: Walrus on July 26, 2009, 11:06:48 PM
I think you're so wrapped up in pedantic assessment of film that you think Fight Club and American Beauty are about nothing beyond filmmaking. 

Just because a movie is popular doesn't mean it lacks depth.  It may be an easy generalization to say, but then again I think it's more about making wide generalizations than it is concerned with discussing the actual movies.

I just think fincher and mendes were so caught up in the film making that they couldn't see beyond the form.  they kinda jacked off to money shots over and over w/o the ability to see what affect overindulgence has on their films.  sometimes cutting quality shots aids the film and rhetoric even if it is at the expense of looking budget and/or traditional.

it's funny you use the word pedantic because i feel that way about the people that read too far into these films; almost as if they need it to mean something. it's just entertainment, therefore i am trying to actually attack the pedantic analysis of these films (even if i do so poorly). trust me when i say that i really feel this on a gut level.  I just see it as cause and effect.  I'll bet you a million dollars everyone approaches these two movies with the wow cool factor, crazy shots, cool dialog etc...  then come to the "meaning" second, justifying their love of the cool to intellectual crowds.  the "fraternity date rapers" mentioned before never get beyond that initial allure... and ironically they don't make a misstep of lying to themselves, even if unintentional.  if the intent is to say something, and get rid of that douche bag crowd, then you gotta make the substance resonate a little louder, or tone the flashy down.

i would love to see a version of fight club and American beauty where form and substance meet. that can manifest itself either as the substance is altered to fit each film better, or as I've previously stated the style chills a bit to meet the lackluster depth.  or they could not change at all, but were seen for what they are.  i don't loath these films, even though admitidly in the past i might have said so in the heat of debate, i just don't see what the big deal is.

it's not popularity that gets under my skin.  in certain circles i find myself defending the mainstream.  it's about getting your head outta that entire debate.  The Game and Revolutionary Road were both brilliant and very popular films (and as you know by the same directors i criticized) .  both have drastically different depths to them, yet i loved them both immensely because the style suits the story.

I, for one, think it was pretty cool the way American Beauty shows it's environment initially as a suffocating "perfect" world for it's main character and slowly show glimpses of the supposed beauty he starts to find in it. Never felt distracted because of that, and I don't think it hurts the film at all. In fact it was refreshing to see a film portrait american suburbia with such visual flair. The real problem with American Beauty lies in the forced way in which the screenplay ties everything together at the end.


SiliasRuby

But it had to tie everything together at the end, its an American Movie for American Audiences. Or else people wouldn't feel vindicated at the end.
The Beatles know Jesus Christ has returned to Earth and is in Los Angeles.

When you are getting fucked by the big corporations remember to use a condom.

There was a FISH in the perkalater!!!

My Collection

Alexandro

of course but then it could have been less forced. in any case, the fact that it's fun pretty much saves it.

Gold Trumpet

Quote from: Alexandro on August 03, 2009, 12:54:16 PM
I, for one, think it was pretty cool the way American Beauty shows it's environment initially as a suffocating "perfect" world for it's main character and slowly show glimpses of the supposed beauty he starts to find in it. Never felt distracted because of that, and I don't think it hurts the film at all. In fact it was refreshing to see a film portrait american suburbia with such visual flair. The real problem with American Beauty lies in the forced way in which the screenplay ties everything together at the end.

The visual flair in the movie was a watered down version of David Lynch's vision in Blue Velvet. Going beyond that film, other movies like Pleasantville were more elaborate with reconstructing the suburban myth into an intricate visual design. That film made you focus on the cinematography more than American Beauty did. Comparatively, the visual work in America Beauty is just meant to compliment the screenplay. Since the script is forced and has characters who are marginalized into roles within seconds, the film comes off as piss poor. No visual work was going to help a script that begged for so much attention. If the story was more simplistic and allowed for more nuance in the portrayal of the family and their world, maybe, but American Beauty pretends to be sophisticated drama about suburbia but it felt tired when I originally watched it and still feels tired today.