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Film Discussion => The Small Screen => Topic started by: Jeremy Blackman on May 08, 2019, 12:41:40 PM

Title: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 08, 2019, 12:41:40 PM


Created by Damon Lindelof

Coming Fall 2019
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on July 20, 2019, 01:19:14 PM
[video is gone]


This is a poorly-cut trailer IMO, but still looks very promising.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on October 05, 2019, 10:31:19 AM
HBO’s ‘Watchmen’ May Only Be One Season, Damon Lindelof Suggests (https://www.slashfilm.com/watchmen-new-york-comic-con-2019-panel/)






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Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Drenk on October 05, 2019, 11:33:30 AM
Unfortunately, crowds at Comic Con would always react that way. The show might fail, but it will be interesting, no doubt.

I have to read Watchmen now...
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Drenk on October 21, 2019, 08:13:19 AM
Promising pilot. A lot of grey areas.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on October 21, 2019, 10:31:20 AM
I was honestly a bit underwhelmed. I think the direction or editing was a bit off. (Where’s Mimi Leder?) But the content is definitely there. Excited to see where it goes.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on October 21, 2019, 02:28:52 PM
Very into it. Lindelof's script drops us into this modern iteration of WATCHMEN without much hand-holding. Meanwhile, the tone is held together tight by Reznor + Ross, channeling With-Teeth-era NIN along with some Carpenter.

If you want supplemental material to the 30-Year-Gap there are four official PDF docs  (https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia)so far.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Drenk on October 28, 2019, 10:15:01 AM
Good visual ideas and all. But it's very messy. The use of the soundtrack is often distracting. That's my kind of show, though. I hope the characters will feel less like ideas and more like human beings.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on October 28, 2019, 11:40:58 AM
I like that the show is engaging with "television" as a medium as much as the graphic novel did with comics. Its folklore is generative -- Tulsa Massacre Superman, Black Oklahoma. When life gets too real, watch Rated X television with your child.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on October 28, 2019, 05:31:25 PM
I think it's very clear that I missed a lot in Episode 1, based on the things I barely caught in Episode 2. There are just so many little details building upon each other, and I fully expect that to continue. Great stuff.

I've tried out a few Watchmen podcasts, and the best ones by far are Bald Move's podcast (cleverly named "We Do") and Slashfilm Daily's coverage.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on October 28, 2019, 07:55:04 PM
Bald Move's podcast (cleverly named "We Do")

Great recommend. Liked their Bass Reeves info, and the scene-by-scene approach. Especially with the interrogation-pod scene, it helps to hear each element at a slower pace. Didn't remember the battery propaganda either. 

Spoiler: ShowHide
No sugar at Milk & Hanoi, so it's a hideaway for Sister Night, but is it more than that? Are Veidt and Doctor Manhattan racing to recreate something of the other's?

Gosh, I'm really into the way Lindelof structures story.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on October 30, 2019, 02:54:26 PM
Cool tidbits from the second full-length "We Do" episode:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Orville Peck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cqkcArzNP8), a masked, queer country artist is playing when Angela comes in to tell Topher that his "uncle" Judd's dead.

The man who is talking in the heritage/genealogy kiosk is Henry Louis Gates Jr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gates_Jr.).

There's a theory that supposes Doctor Manhattan has Ozymandias/Blonde Man in a Martian prison. A listener also supposes that Ozy'z anniversaries are literal, and that so far we've been watching his storyline through flashbacks. The second candle, the change in the watch.

Bass Reeves, irl, was hired for his martial prowess as well as knowing indigenous languages -- tying into the episode's eponymous painting. (https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/field/image/Comanche-Indian.jpg)

Judd's grandfather, in the photo, Dixon T Crawford, is an inverse name of Thomas Dixon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clansman:_A_Historical_Romance_of_the_Ku_Klux_Klan), not too far of a reach, even if it's only a trivial reference, considering the cloak.

And then, I'll offer up that researching Hong Chau's character name brings up some interesting history of its own. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Tri%E1%BB%87u)
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on October 30, 2019, 05:16:40 PM
Glad you like the podcast! Their coverage of Game of Thrones was similarly in-depth and insightful.

Spoiler: ShowHide
I personally believe the two Ozy sequences we've seen are a full year apart, and the cake is used to mark each year.

It probably would have taken a year for the play to be written and staged to the point we see it at in sequence 2, where it's not only happening, it's being refined. Some other things appear in sequence 2 that are also probably new, like the tomato tree (judging by his reaction).
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on October 30, 2019, 07:49:48 PM
Glad you like the podcast! Their coverage of Game of Thrones was similarly in-depth and insightful.

Spoiler: ShowHide
I personally believe the two Ozy sequences we've seen are a full year apart, and the cake is used to mark each year.

It probably would have taken a year for the play to be written and staged to the point we see it at in sequence 2, where it's not only happening, it's being refined. Some other things appear in sequence 2 that are also probably new, like the tomato tree (judging by his reaction).


LEFTOVERS and WATCHMEN spoilerz: ShowHide
Sequence because it's a sort of loop? Or because it's a fabricated reality?
Kinda rhetorical, because we have little to go off of, but if you have an instinct about it after seeing LOST and the Garveys, I trust that plenty.

When they brought up Kevin's multiple resurrections in the podcast it reminded me that, really, anything goes for these characters right now.
This show iz a lotta fun to chew into.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Drenk on November 06, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
There's an official podcast:
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on November 06, 2019, 12:22:03 PM
One of the more interesting tidbits from the Official Pod, I thought, was having Nicole Kassell read the screenplay before the graphic novel. Keeps the perspective at the remove a newcomer might experience. 
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: RegularKarate on November 08, 2019, 02:30:22 PM
Really into this show, but the last episode scared me as it's the first sign of Lindelof being back on his bullshit again.
Specifically the framing device of the phone call... just took me right out of everything the first two episodes pulled me into.

Still, very much into everything else about this show (other than their Tulsa not looking like Oklahoma, but what can you do?).
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Neil on November 08, 2019, 03:42:28 PM
Can I ask what about the phone booth was so off-putting for you RK?
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on November 08, 2019, 04:53:05 PM
SPOILS

The phone booth is like any number of things in The Leftovers. Could be fake, could be real, and ultimately it's really about something else. This is like a central Lindelofism. Which I understand is grating to some people.

(Assuming that's what the complaint is.)
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: RegularKarate on November 11, 2019, 03:29:39 PM
SPOILS

The phone booth is like any number of things in The Leftovers. Could be fake, could be real, and ultimately it's really about something else. This is like a central Lindelofism. Which I understand is grating to some people.

(Assuming that's what the complaint is.)

Exactly.
I know you are team Lindelof, but it gets on my damn nerves.

This last episode started exactly like a Leftovers episode so I guess this show is just headed toward being The Leftovers, but in the Watchmen universe... which honestly, I could love just as easily as I could hate it. Just depends on where it goes.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Drenk on November 11, 2019, 06:10:04 PM
SPOILERS

Lube Man got a literal lol out of me today, which is why The Watchmen is good. (Having read the graphic novel, I like the show better now? I have nothing negative to say about the last episode. Some information about the characters is needlessly kept away from us, but I've accepted the deal...)
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tictacbk on November 12, 2019, 07:30:43 AM
Also watching and loving this (so far.)  That opening to ep 4! Hong Chau! If this just ends up being The Leftovers: Watchmen Edition, I'm fine with it.  In Lindelof I trust.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: wilberfan on November 12, 2019, 12:53:22 PM
This genre generally holds no interest for me, but out of respect for Lindelof I tuned-in.  I'm enjoying it, too.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on November 17, 2019, 11:25:19 PM
Tonight's episode featured this track at the bar after LG's meeting:



Quote
My opponent's reasoning reminds me of the heathen, who, being asked on what the world stood, replied, "On a tortoise." But on what does the tortoise stand? "On another tortoise." With Mr. Barker, too, there are tortoises all the way down. (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015068642472&view=1up&seq=5)
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: jenkins on November 18, 2019, 12:02:32 AM
now i understand a john green book title
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: samsong on November 18, 2019, 05:32:46 PM
pretty riveted by the series so far.  i’m not a fan of lindelof but digging this so far.  his lesser tendencies are ever-present, though.

spoilers-ish

that last episode was pretty great right up until that stupid monologue about the film spielberg supposedly made about THE EVENT in the style of schindler’s list.  (did the holocaust not happen in this universe?  or did this event supersede the holocaust in pertinence?  eye roll city.) it made the parallelism of the baiting of looking glass seem thuddingly heavy handed as a device, though i probably wouldve been fine had i not been ejected out of the show with that idiotic pale horse bit. 

love the jeremy irons stuff, especially the reveal of the purpose of his antics in the last episode.  its been a minute since i read the book and had to look refresh my memory... very satisfying.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on November 25, 2019, 04:08:06 PM
Last night's episode has got to be one of the all-time HBO greats, right?


SPOILERz within the hyperlinks:
Some of the real-life  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_J._Battle)texture from (https://www.vox.com/2019/11/25/20981767/watchmen-episode-6-fred-trump-recap) last night's episode ~
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Neil on November 25, 2019, 04:51:04 PM
Last night's episode has got to be one of the all-time HBO greats, right?


SPOILERz within the hyperlinks:
Some of the real-life  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_J._Battle)texture from (https://www.vox.com/2019/11/25/20981767/watchmen-episode-6-fred-trump-recap) last night's episode ~

Spoiler: ShowHide
As I was watching some of those single takes, I was feeling a way I haven't felt watching TV in a long time. the pacing, the dialogue, all of it. 

I don't really foresee this ending in such a way that satisfies me, especially with only three eps left, but man oh man I am along for the ride for sure.

EDIT: I've decided that it really doesn't matter if the Manhatten phone booth works or not, and it only serves as a plot device for laurie to show where she's at mentally with their relationship, AKA hung up and bitter.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Fernando on December 02, 2019, 10:18:10 PM
Great episode last night, and that ending.


Spoiler: ShowHide
I thought we would see Dr Manhattan until the last episode, looks like it will be in the next one.



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Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Fernando on December 08, 2019, 10:29:09 PM
Amazing episode.

I hope people didn't change the channel during the credits.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Drenk on December 09, 2019, 06:50:30 AM
That was a full hour of exposition dump...An episode before the finale. Basically, it was a lifeless illustration of what we already knew—it was extremely boring, and they're wasting Regina King, forcing her to constantly ask questions...

Also: the lamest love story I've ever seen. It's basically non-existant; you have to take it for granted because it's...the plot...

Disappointing.

I was enjoying the show a lot, but three flashbacks in a row, God...

The sixth one was good. Last week: all right. This? I don't even care about the finale now, but I'll probably enjoy it more.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on December 09, 2019, 11:15:48 AM
This is a Lindelof show; you sign up for the flashbacks. I suppose one person's "exposition dump" is another person's... "storytelling." I can understand if you don't like the style, though.

Spoiler: ShowHide
The love story did win me over. Thought it was absolutely brilliant that Dr. Manhattan only falls in love with Angela near the very end of things, but because of the way he experiences time, he always experienced that.

My only reservation is wondering why he didn't at least attempt to save himself from the tachyon cannon. We are clearly going by Lost rules here - "whatever happened, happened." But there must be a reason he doesn't resist his fate. I assume we'll find out.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Neil on December 09, 2019, 03:40:05 PM
I couldn't disagree with Drenk more!

I loved the narrative structure of this episode, and technically speaking, it was all happening at the same time Relatively ;)

I'm still bummed that there aren't 9 more eps of this, but I think this set up the finale in the best possible way. Really loving this show thus far. Shaping up to be one of the best viewing experiences I've ever been apart of on a week to week basis!

Spoiler: ShowHide
We got to see where Doc has been and why, how he and Angela met, where Adrien went, why he went there, not only that but you also get the most ambitious plot advancement with Doc being hit with the Tachyon Canon. As far as flashback exposition goes, it seems like the plot sure got advanced while filling in some much needed dark spots of the narrative
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: wilberfan on December 09, 2019, 04:54:34 PM
I don't have a lot invested in this show, but this episode was the least satisfying for me so far.  I kept thinking, "Jesus, exposition much?!".   I preferred the episodes with less superhero-y aspects--the ones that were at least semi-plausible in character and plot.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: WorldForgot on December 09, 2019, 06:43:23 PM
Two dope write-ups, one an interview with Yahya Abdul-Mateen II , and some excerpts:

Spoiler: ShowHide


 The romantic in me wants to believe that the face his love chose became the face he saw in the mirror, the one that made Jon feel like Jon for the first time. Some could call it appropriation. Maybe there’s a scientific reason I’m too ignorant to comprehend, or perhaps if you keep making that face, it really will get stuck like that. Either way, it’s not a mask. For the first time, he isn’t hiding. He revealed the only secret he kept from Angela, about visiting her grandfathers. He laid out a plan to keep her safe. I think he made her a god. (https://tv.avclub.com/watchmen-composes-the-greatest-love-story-ever-told-1840286252)
Quote
Two white European men of the Silent Generation found their way to America. Manhattan, a child refugee, fled Nazi Germany in search of a safe space to start a new life. Adrian Veidt got rid of his substantial wealth and became an adventurer hell-bent on building an empire in his likeness. Jon’s always enjoyed sex, while Veidt’s never expressed an interest in anyone sexually. Manhattan’s fallen in and out of love, while Veidt’s never pursued anyone. Adrian enjoys grand costumes. Doctor Manhattan likes to strut in the buff. A lack of barriers allows them to communicate. Frequently, they arrive at the same conclusion. This is how the squid drop went uncovered. It’s how Veidt avoids prosecution, and why so many people, in the world of Watchmen, live in abject terror.

and

 I think she was always in love with Dr. Manhattan, but I think she began to appreciate him in the embodiment of Cal. I think Cal was always Dr. Manhattan, but he is the expression of the love within Dr. Manhattan that a lot of Dr. Manhattan’s own facilities didn’t allow him to bring to the front. (https://shadowandact.com/watchmen-star-yahya-abdul-mateen-on-that-twist-and-the-love-story-we-didnt-know-we-needed)

Quote
A lot of times, when we talk about history, slavery, and oppression, people say, “Well, that was so long ago, no one who did those things are still living, get over it.” Our show shows how easy it is for trauma to travel through a lineage, to travel 100 years forward, and still be affecting people who are alive today. Trauma really does travel from generation to generation. Our show shows how it doesn’t take much to do that at all. It’s really a point of pride for me to be a part of show that is moving the needle and having people engage in important conversations about our people and how we got to where we are today.

Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HACKANUT on December 15, 2019, 09:18:31 AM
Remembered theres a TV forum here and was curious about the boards thoughts on this show.
I'm a fan of the original graphic novel and tend to hate these pieces of remake/redo/nostalgiafest media but still wanted to give this a chance.
Every week when the episode finishes me and my roommates agree theres something off about the whole show but its not bad enough to stop watching.
Based on the media reaction it seems like we're in the minority tho.
Hoping the last episode tonight does something to make me not roll my eyes at the end.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Drenk on December 16, 2019, 07:52:36 AM
A lot of eye rolls for me. It went from an interesting riff of the comic to a robotic reboot. The finale is, beat by beat, what you've known four episodes ago, explicitly shown to you, you're teleported to the next plot point, literally or metaphorically.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on December 16, 2019, 10:39:26 AM
A lot of eye rolls for me. It went from an interesting riff of the comic to a robotic reboot. The finale is, beat by beat, what you've known four episodes ago, explicitly shown to you, you're teleported to the next plot point, literally or metaphorically.

I kind of agree, actually. Part of me thinks it's my fault, because I've been consuming the theories, and all the theories were true. But it's more than that. This finale was too hand-holdy. The writing was not up to par for Lindelof. And I do not think the Inception ending was useful.
Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Fernando on September 27, 2020, 04:04:27 PM
I love the way Damon Lindelof tells stories