i mean, it's rather lined up (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9243804/)
writer/director Lowery
DP Andrew Droz Palermo (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3902730/)
Music by Daniel Hart (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5740235/)
Production Design by Jade Healy (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1639516/)
Filming, A24, 2020 release
i noticed Jade Healy's recent credits
QuoteGreen Knight (filming)
2019 Untitled Noah Baumbach Project (post-production)
2019 A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood (post-production)
2017 I, Tonya
2017 The Killing of a Sacred Deer
2017 A Ghost Story
and Lowery basically created Daniel Hart, who just worked on SMILF and The Society
no editor currently listed
you might just follow him but i just checked
[instagram posts now removed for some reason]
The production diary across the board has been beautiful. I started to follow basically the whole crew, because the production looks so frgn fun !
Where is the production diary
Quote from: jenkins on June 13, 2019, 03:44:48 PM
Where is the production diary
Erm, like, just on their IG storiez, you know?
Production IG Journal? Something like that.
Ah I see. Knowing that guy there's a written diary somewhere
https://twitter.com/A24/status/1227585646425886725
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQh39zJXkAQ-TBQ?format=jpg&name=900x900)
it's a cool poster
Great movie poster, even better rap album cover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoJc2tH3WBw
That hand :yabbse-grin:
HOLY SHIT. I'm so here for this.
Ghostboy continues to kill it. GQ has a nice hype piece (https://www.gq.com/story/why-the-green-knight-is-2020s-newest-must-see-movie) about the trailer with some nice words about DL. Check it out!
I'm speechless.
Please tell me the whole score is like that!
Yes please!!!
Sploooosh ~
That atmosphere and production design work iz gorgeous.
I can't wait to experience this film's tempo and structure.
YESSSSSS
Also, that is the coolest version of the A24 logo I've ever seen.
Mmmhmmmm
Editor: David Lowery
This looks cool as fuck
too bad its release date is plagued bc i am like oriented for this
if only the vimeo password could be shared and so all the xixax members watch it and the revenue stream drops $50. i don't think that's the advanced stages setup though
jenkins is speaking the collective Xixax mind here.
"No One Knows" If 'The Green Knight' Will Wait For Theaters Or Go Straight To VOD (https://theplaylist.net/david-lowery-green-knight-release-20200504/)Quote from: Lowery on Nerd Party"No one knows. That's the case with everything at the moment. No one knows anything," said Lowery. "All I can say is that at some point audiences will see it. And they'll see it in the best way possible, given the circumstances. Hopefully, that's in theaters. Hopefully, theaters survive. I'm a big-time defender of the theatrical experience, and one of the things I love about A24 is that they are as well."
However, if the film is destined for a VOD release, the filmmaker is okay with that, as he'd rather have his film be released on demand than not released at all.
"If I were just an audience member and I've been stuck at home for six months and I wanted to see a new movie, I'd rather see it at home than not see it at all. So I'm confident that it'll be seen soon, but 'soon' is variable," he explained.
That being said, there is a silver lining to this whole situation for Lowery. He also said that the fact that he didn't have to rush to turn in a cut by SXSW in March wasn't such a bad thing.
"We were really rushing to try to get done by SXSW, and the movie, if we showed it there, would not have been fully finished. It would have been close, but not quite done," said the filmmaker. "If we had to release the movie tomorrow, it would be pretty close to where it needs to be. But we're able to take a breather and sit with it."
So, will "The Green Knight" hit VOD next month or theaters six months from now? No one knows. But at least we're confident that when it does, Lowery will have had plenty of time to get the film exactly how he wants it
As far as I can tell they mean This Pod episode (https://www.thenerdparty.com/thea24project).
Every Film Release Affected by the Coronavirus Pandemic (https://variety.com/2020/film/news/coronavirus-film-releases-delays-movie-theaters-1203539436/)
David Lowery's medieval fantasy film was scheduled to release on May 29. Now, A24 has delayed the film indefinitely.
Fuck theaters, just put it in my face.
here's the duality:
1 perfect time to release vod
2 theater starved audiences will lose their second virginity when theaters reopen
i read Tenet blah blah to see if it mentions The Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1By2mfv52I
FUCK YEAH!
Quote
A key to understanding this presence of the medieval within the contemporary can be found in a brief but brilliant essay by Peter Wollen titled “Delirious Projections”. (1) Coming to terms with a clutch of films released throughout the 1980s and the early ‘90s, from Ridley Scott’s Blade Runner (1982) and Terry Gilliam’s Brazil (1985) to Tim Burton’s Batman Returns (1992) – films featuring “fantastic cities” in a 20th century cinematic tradition that also includes Metropolis (1927) and the original King Kong (1933) – Wollen diagnoses the flourishing of a rampant Expressionism that seems rather more than an obligatory nod to the style-conscious, often superficial postmodern appropriations common to the present-day moment. Indeed, “the return to Expressionism seems only a retro-fitted way-station on the long path back to medievalism”. Wollen concludes:
It is as though the polarisation and disorder of society has led to a situation where melodrama, with its lurid polarities of innocence and evil, or the grotesque, with its juxtaposition of the rotten with the lofty, are more representative of the city in a post-modern age than they have been for decades. As we leave behind the values of the Keynesian welfare state, we find the need for a new aesthetic which surfaces, like the Penguin and his gang [in Batman Returns], in startling and unexpected ways.
[...]
For much progressive cinema since the 1970s, such exploration of the blatantly intermedial – darting between and complicating the perceived poles of the theatrical-artificial and the cinematic-real – begins with Éric Rohmer’s remarkable adaptation of Chrétien de Troyes in Perceval le gallois (1979) – but an equally potent starting point, less known outside its country of origin at the time, could have been provided by Manoel de Oliveria’s work in that period, such as Amor de Perdição (Doomed Love, 1978). In these films, we see the flowering of a particular inflection of the archaic-innovative approach: the appeal (however re-imagined or reinvented) to a medieval aesthetic provides a way of inventing a cinematic modernity (or later, from the ‘80s inwards, a mannerist post-modernity). The literary weight of recited text is insisted upon; the action stops for a song or dance or intermedial demonstration of some sort. And theatrical artifice – whether the literal stage sets visible everywhere in Oliveira’s work or the wonderful constructed-painted unnatural backdrops in Perceval – is proudly displayed and explored at every turn, creating all manner of deliberate anachronisms within the conventions of historical depiction. Raúl Ruiz’s work, too, goes increasingly in this direction, especially in a multi-layered fiction such as Combat d’amour en songe (Love Torn in Dream, 2000).
There is a large pool of fascinating cinema which has yet to be fully discussed in this neo-medieval light: apart from key figures already cited, such as Green and his artistic mentor Bresson (whose Lancelot drew from praise for its kinship to the modernist medievalism of e.e. cummings’ poetry), there is also the Trilogy of Life by Pier Paolo Pasolini (Il Decameron [I1971], I racconti di Canterbury [1972] and Il fiore della mille e una notte [I1974]), the historical fantasias of Sergei Parajanov (Tini zabutykh predkiv [Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors, Russia 1964, Sayat nova [Colour of Pomegranates, 1968) and Walerian Borowczyk (Goto, l’île d’amour [1968], Blanche [1971]), or Hans-Jurgen Syberberg with his transposition of Wagner’s opera version of Parsifal (1982) – among much else.
Rather than the endless seesaw between stateliness and spontaneity, these films reflect the influence of another major historiographical approach: they seek to exaggerate, rather than to eliminate, the strangeness of the past, its alienness and unreadability – its alterity – in relation to our present-day codes and mores.
The Long Path Back - Medievalism in Film (http://www.filmcritic.com.au/essays/long_path_back.html#b7)
And a compilation of films for consideration -- Notes Toward a Neo-Medieval Aesthetic (https://letterboxd.com/jakeaesthete/list/notes-toward-a-neo-medieval-aesthetic/)
Just saw a YouTube video saying The Green Knight is rated R for 'graphic nudity,' so I checked in here.
https://twitter.com/ERCboxoffice/status/1339669735932186624
YES
you know everyone is wondering how long it will take to restore normalcy and midyear is the forecast indeed. i'd like to lean toward optimism and consider that a safe bet, with restoration happening before then, just because lol let it be over puh-lease
I simply cannot wait for this any longer. I think it's the first film with a trailer that's really gotten me excited like old times since the start of the pandemic.
Edit: I forgot about The French Dispatch, and I'm sure I'm forgetting about some others. :doh:
this is def on track to open July 30. the Arclight shuttered but oh well, Laemmle's Royal is open, Music Hall, and the Landmark too. i saw ATBS at the Landmark
QuoteTHE GREEN KNIGHT by Anonymous; Translated with an Introduction and Notes by Bernard O'Donoghue; Foreword by David Lowery (Penguin Books; on-sale 7/13/21). Director David Lowery has contributed a foreword about how the poem inspired the upcoming film, and the book will be published just in time for the film's release on 7/30.
New trailer. Intense!
Hard to say if there are spoilers or not - I definitely know more about the plot than I knew going in, so keep that in mind as you choose to watch (or not).
Looks great. Love the production design.
Hopefully this will be his first film that I like.
Quote from: wrongright on May 11, 2021, 10:10:36 AM
Hopefully this will be his first film that I like.
The guy hasn't missed yet, for my money.
I love some of his films more than others, but they're all solid (in my opinion).
I'm a Pioneer queen
St Nick (http://innergenre.blogspot.com/2012/12/st-nick.html). which was included as a special feature on one of his physical media releases
i'm not watching the new trailer because i'm already ready. it'll be a good post-plague viewing i'm sure
Got goosebumps multiple times during this. Can't wait.
Just ran across this trailer in the dictionary under mise en scène
I'm getting serious "might become an all time favorite" tingles. It just checks so many boxes. And we know the execution is going to be dynamite. Clearly a lot of care and passion poured into this.
Did you guys read the script reviews?
saying it's way weirder than what you might expect
Well supposedly ghostboi was inspired by blocking out scenes with Willow figures.
So, yeah, Willow
Quote from: modage on May 11, 2021, 04:44:48 PM
Got goosebumps multiple times during this. Can't wait.
Hard same. Also hello old friend.
it's clocked at 2h5min btw
Yummy!
https://twitter.com/RetroNewsNow/status/1395435655774326784
Quote from: Shughes on May 11, 2021, 11:10:54 AM
Quote from: wrongright on May 11, 2021, 10:10:36 AM
Hopefully this will be his first film that I like.
The guy hasn't missed yet, for my money.
I love some of his films more than others, but they're all solid (in my opinion).
A Ghost Story did nothing for me. That dinner party monologue was the worst. The other 2 were fine but forgettable IMO.
St. Nick isn't some Dirk Diggler Story or My Best Friend's Birthday scenario. it's a legitimate movie of his
QuoteLowery's first feature film, St. Nick, which follows two runaway children abandoned by their guardians, premiered at the 2009 South by Southwest festival
this conversation is hot air and it's not the only conversation that leaves St. Nick out but about that I'm like whatever
Haven't seen St. Nick, but I'm keen to. Not sure it's available in the UK but will track it down.
Quote from: wrongright on May 11, 2021, 10:10:36 AM
A Ghost Story did nothing for me. That dinner party monologue was the worst. The other 2 were fine but forgettable IMO.
A Ghost Story is his best film yet in my opinion. A low-key masterpiece. Agree to disagree I guess. It feels like The Green Knight might be a return to that vein of more personal filmmaking. Insomuch that it's probably nothing like what people are expecting.
For those who missed the Sundance Collab event that was mentioned earlier - you can watch the recording of the event (you need an account but it's free to sign up). I'm maybe stating the obvious here, but I'm doing so because it was an inspiring session and worth watching:
http://t2d.tv/11b5
Quote from: Shughes on May 21, 2021, 07:33:49 AM
For those who missed the Sundance Collab event that was mentioned earlier - you can watch the recording of the event (you need an account but it's free to sign up). I'm maybe stating the obvious here, but I'm doing so because it was an inspiring session and worth watching:
http://t2d.tv/11b5
Oh, dope! Definitely will listen to this.
(https://i.imgur.com/KpMSIja.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/7SEaXBt.jpg)
I used my phone to scan the foreword:
(https://i.imgur.com/clgZV9q.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UXuDHHP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KY71KBi.jpg)
What a swell fella.
I am really looking forward to this and must make it my first trip back to the big screen.
Miss you movies. Thank you GB.
And thank you J!
Thanks for the scan! Inspiring words ~
it's a lot of fun to read. totally worth it. as something of a literary person myself, you know, when I heard about this, I was like okay nice. if I were permitted to daydream aloud in the same way I'd like to do The Golden Ass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Ass). deadpan anything happens act natural. it's cool
it pretty much can't not work. this can't miss, for a certain crowd I suppose. open eyes/open heart/culture people. what I'll next learn is the tone of the movie, which maybe the trailer demonstrates, but I haven't watched the trailer. I look forward to encountering the pitch of the movie
talked about this today and can chat about a specific thing that relates to the entire narrative, so it's in spoiler
this is the general story: King Arthur and his round table are the dopest thing anyone has heard of since the romans, so a green knight shows up to challenge their manhood. they can't be too afraid to accept it so Sir Gawain beheads the knight who picks up his head and leaves, the condition being that Sir Gawain will be beheaded within a year. Sir Gawain asks the green knight who he is and he is the Green Chapel Knight, come find him when the time is right. the time becomes right so Sir Gawain goes in search of him, undergoing severe trails along his way that are easy for him because he's Sir Fucking Gawain, no big deal. except when he sees a castle he's like, okay nice, better stop here. he's in the castle for three days and the lord of the castle is nice and goes hunting, leaves Sir Gawain behind with his wife who tries to seduce him. she is unable to fully seduce him but he does accept her girdle because she says that no one will kill him if he wears it. Sir Gawain goes to the nearby chapel on the appropriate day and, surprise, the lord of the castle and the green knight are the same, and this whole thing was cooked by the lady, Morgan Le Fey, "Morgan the goddess," who knows some of Merlin's skills. because Sir Gawain was tricked into wearing the girdle he failed a little, and everyone is human
Morgan Le Fey is the mastermind of the operation, which Lowery refers to, and her revelation comes at the end of the story, Lowery makes it sound as if he wishes he had shaped the movie around that fact. but I'm still not sure what the movie will be like and Lowery is essentially self-critical in his foreward
Regal Crown Club News sent out an e-mail this week purely to announce Tickets were on sale, so that was pretty cool. I haven't been to the theater since I saw Sonic the Hedgehog/Harley Quinn.
All You Shall See Is Green
The Game Begins July 30
An epic fantasy adventure based on the timeless Arthurian legend. The Green Knight, from visionary filmmaker David Lowery, is a fresh and bold spin on a classic tale from the knights of the round table. Tickets now on sale.
https://twitter.com/jowrotethis/status/1417152750253592577
https://twitter.com/shannon_mcgrew/status/1417152252351967242
https://twitter.com/htranbui/status/1417152252960202754
Social embargo is lifted, and the reviews are just as rapturous as we expected.
So excited for this. Just hoping they give it a wide release where I am.
The Green Knight has just had its U.K. release pulled (should be hitting cinemas in two weeks), with no word on when or how it might appear.
excellent
Quote from: Fitzroy on July 26, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
The Green Knight has just had its U.K. release pulled (should be hitting cinemas in two weeks), with no word on when or how it might appear.
excellent
No release date for France. No distributor, as far as I know. Everything is still a mess, it seems. For example, you now need to be vaccinated to attend a screening, which certainly affect recent releases that didn't plan that half of the population would be prohibited from seeing a movie.
Quote from: Fitzroy on July 26, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
The Green Knight has just had its U.K. release pulled (should be hitting cinemas in two weeks), with no word on when or how it might appear.
excellent
Honestly so annoyed, I was going to make it my first trip to the cinema since Feb 2020, not sure what they're playing at with this. It's not like cinemas are going to close again or the rules change in the next two weeks.
It premieres in Berlin in just a few days - but of course I just went away for three weeks...
OMFG THESE REVIEWS ARE INSANE GHOSTBOY IS GETTING IT DONE
(sorry continue to feel like a proud internet brother)
Cannot wait for this shit.
it's playing around la at 7 on Thursday
Its 89 metacritic page (https://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-green-knight/critic-reviews)
the Lowery Touch is a term I employed from the beginning, and now it's really glowing
QuoteThe power of Lowery's work here is to filter his many influences into a singular vision that feels entirely in his sole possession.
QuoteLowery (A Ghost Story, The Old Man & the Gun), in addition to fleshing out the story, puts his stamp all over it so confidently that the results could be annoying, if they weren't so enchanting.
QuoteLowery's version works because, like Brian Helgeland and Curtis Hanson's rewriting of L.A. Confidential, it captures the nature and meaning of the story rather than getting caught up in individual events or plot beats.
QuoteHere, the Texas writer-director revels in the opportunity to create image after image worthy of immortalization: The Green Knight is his most purely striking achievement, offering sprawling forests bathed in ghostly orange light and overhead shots that suggest the surveying eye of a curious god.
There is a review from someone who isn't having it. (https://www.thewrap.com/the-green-knight-review-dev-patel-david-lowery-alicia-vikander/) and although he's speaking about this movie specifically sometimes irl I hear lowery get shittalked like this. It's not the right perspective it's another perspective that isn't having it
It's clear to me that it isn't a literal adaptation, and although I'm glad I read the source material that seems mostly unrelated
I've said before, and it's true, that many years ago when I was living in an apartment with my mother, and ghostboy was living, wasn't he, in his parents' basement, I might be misremembering the exact place he was living, but we both sounded a bit off the track to success, and we exchanged just kind of normal polite messages with each other in the evening, saying we'd each keep believing in the dream we were following. I didn't land in the same place as him but I'll be goddamned if he didn't nail it
https://twitter.com/davechensky/status/1420264955954089989
Basically he doesn't know what to compare the narrative to
We all remember that Lowery edited Upstream Color, and although I'm of the inclination that that movie leads us nowhere, still, it worked to go nowhere, and the editing brought us there. As to say there's previous experience involved with the composition of a non-traditional narrative, certainly St Nick and A Ghost Story as well. It's meaningful that this isn't his first attempt at this, that he's been able to think about this and grow it, along with that extra time spent editing
:shock: :shock: :shock:
As expected, this was spectacular. Dev Patel grabs you and doesn't let go, and you don't even realize he's doing it. It's a very subtly magnetic and seductive performance.
This has some of the most beautiful and fascinating landscapes I've ever seen in a movie. In that respect, more than one of the Qatsi films, it reminded me of The Last Jedi. Can't help but wonder how they found all of these locations and whether they're all actually real.
David's overall approach here is very similar to A Ghost Story, especially in terms of aesthetics and pacing and just the sweeping feeling of it. But it's also a lot of fun! It's a conventionally propulsive narrative while still somehow being constantly beguiling.
My God I'm in love with that ending. I'd like to know what other people think. Spoiler discussions to follow, I'm sure.
jb, following Qatsi with The Last Jedi is pinning the tail on the donkey after being spun. i see the donkey, and this statement is playful. you do just fine by comparing the philosophical shape to AGS, while noting its own narrative dynamics. honestly if ticket purchases correspond to internet interest it'll be a sold out weekend so will you discuss the ending with spoiler tags please, because i want to know the matter being discussed, and losing the sensation of novelty isn't a significant loss from my perspective
Yes that comparison was mostly bait, also a response to the tweet I posted. I did legitimately think of TLJ though.
Some spoilers to start the spoiler convo. I would not recommending getting spoiled, though. There are delightful turns, and I think the surprise was central to my enjoyment.
I'm not sure whether this interpretation is off-base or incredibly obvious, but either way, here it is.
I see the ending as a fulfillment of Gawain's declaration of honor. He sees his (potential) life flash before his eyes and realizes that not even maximum glory and success could bring back the honor he'd lose. Abandoning this quest is an irreversible decision. Not even knighthood or kinghood or military conquest could reclaim that honor. Based on his vision, he clearly doesn't expect it to be a happy or fulfilling life, either. (He notably declined to express love for his girlfriend in an earlier scene, perhaps already knowing the decision he'd have to make on his way up the ladder.)
Let's make another totally expected comparison: Romeo & Juliet. Most Shakespeare scholars agree it was probably intended as a comic tragedy about dumb kids, and their idiocy in the climax is supposed to amuse and frustrate you. Gawain is similarly dumb. Even with the rules clearly laid out, he decided to lop off the Green Knight's head, sealing his own fate.
So why not another comparison: It Follows. The consequences of Gawain's poor decision are inescapable. It's coming for him and always will be. (The throne room scene is such a potent poetic illustration of that!) As he says himself, in a way — one year or a hundred years, it wouldn't matter. He's going to lose his head. So along with "reap what you sow" there's definitely a lot of "death comes for us all."
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 30, 2021, 12:37:10 AM
Even with the rules clearly laid out, he decided to lop off the Green Knight's head, sealing his own fate.
It's unclear to me what happens but you don't have to explain it. I think in of itself the way Lowery sparks intimate deliberation is a success. In the source text Gawain lops off the head of the Green Chapel Knight and his fate turns out to be that the mistress of the castle was the mastermind behind the testing of the virtue of King Arthur's court, and Gawain's only problem is he wore her garter belt she gave him to protect himself. all that happens is everyone starts wearing garter belts and accepting human fallibility. again, you don't have to split apart the differences here. it sounds like Gawain just dies which is a less interesting theme, and perhaps what Lowery was referencing in his book intro, but I'll have to see the movie to find out. I support this movie
@jenkins
MASSIVE SPOILERS — Gawain absolutely wears the belt, which has been enchanted by a witch to protect him. The Green Knight goes to chop off his head, but in that moment Gawain sees a future without honor (my interpretation) where the only thing keeping his head on is that belt. So he decides to take the belt off. The Green Knight touches him affectionately and proudly as if congratulating him for solving a riddle and proving his virtue. And then TGK goes to cut off Gawain's head anyway. Cuts to black before we see it, but it's 90% implied that Gawain does in fact lose his head.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 30, 2021, 12:56:35 AM
@jenkins
MASSIVE SPOILERS — Gawain absolutely wears the belt, which has been enchanted by a witch to protect him. The Green Knight goes to chop off his head, but in that moment Gawain sees a future without honor (my interpretation) where the only thing keeping his head on is that belt. So he decides to take the belt off. The Green Knight touches him affectionately and proudly as if congratulating him for solving a riddle... and then goes to cut off Gawain's head anyway. Cuts to black before we see it, but it's like 90% implied that Gawain does in fact lose his head.
I appreciate the reply because this will help me appreciate the movie. In what I'm hearing it adheres to the source text but enhances it by saying human fallibility is not forgivable by asking for forgiveness after the matter, but rather don't do it in the first place
I checked in at metacritic and it's still doing great, Justin Chang who I am a fan of echoes the conversation jb and I were having
QuoteWhat does it mean to be a knight, or even just to be human? It isn't an easy question, and The Green Knight, in taking it seriously, isn't always an easy film. But by the time Gawain reaches his journey's end, in as moving and majestically sustained a passage of pure cinema as I've seen this year, the moral arc of his journey has snapped into undeniable focus.
Moral arc is the key here. In truth there's lightness to the original but this is something more serious
MILD SPOILERS in this quote
Quote from: jenkins on July 30, 2021, 12:28:29 PM"But by the time Gawain reaches his journey's end, in as moving and majestically sustained a passage of pure cinema as I've seen this year, the moral arc of his journey has snapped into undeniable focus."
Seriously. I think this is one of my favorite movie endings, full stop.
The throne room scene in particular, however brief, is just so silently stunning.
Since I've been gushing, I'll throw in two criticisms, which I'd like feedback on.
I think the fox CGI needed another pass.
Gawain eating the mushroom seems to present the viewer with a viable "out" — you can choose to recontextualize everything that follows as a hallucination. (Including the giants, sadly.) This is just a type of plot device that I feel intrinsically opposed to.
Still haven't seen it but to continue to talk about the ending
so basically in the source text the crux is the mistress hatched the whole scheme and sir gaiawan shouldn't have accepted her girdle which everyone laughs about. in this way the decapitation is diverted through playful devices that stitch together
the narrative has been rewired in a way appropriate for our times: why don't you think a little before you do something?
I was excited to go see this and invited a friend, but he said he'd rather pass because he's just put off by the state of Hollywood and filmmaking these days. I agree with him that a lot of filmmaking sucks lately, but this seems interesting. And he said he just doesn't want to deal with the "politically entrenched agendas" with movies these days. The irony/contradiction is that it's like ... dude ... it was just about going to see a movie, and you're making it weirdly about politics or whatever even though you claim to want to avoid weird politics.
Maybe I need to evaluate the people that I spend time around. It just kind of turned my mood on its head and I'm not as stoked to get out of the house for once and see a theatre movie for the first time in a year. I'll probably still go tonight.
Quote from: csage97 on July 30, 2021, 03:17:26 PM
I was excited to go see this and invited a friend, but he said he'd rather pass because he's just put off by the state of Hollywood and filmmaking these days. I agree with him that a lot of filmmaking sucks lately, but this seems interesting. And he said he just doesn't want to deal with the "politically entrenched agendas" with movies these days. The irony/contradiction is that it's like ... dude ... it was just about going to see a movie, and you're making it weirdly about politics or whatever even though you claim to want to avoid weird politics.
Maybe I need to evaluate the people that I spend time around. It just kind of turned my mood on its head and I'm not as stoked to get out of the house for once and see a theatre movie for the first time in a year. I'll probably still go tonight.
Oof. I don't recall there being anything overtly political in this movie. Was he referring to the casting of Dev Patel? (Hopefully not.)
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 30, 2021, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: csage97 on July 30, 2021, 03:17:26 PM
I was excited to go see this and invited a friend, but he said he'd rather pass because he's just put off by the state of Hollywood and filmmaking these days. I agree with him that a lot of filmmaking sucks lately, but this seems interesting. And he said he just doesn't want to deal with the "politically entrenched agendas" with movies these days. The irony/contradiction is that it's like ... dude ... it was just about going to see a movie, and you're making it weirdly about politics or whatever even though you claim to want to avoid weird politics.
Maybe I need to evaluate the people that I spend time around. It just kind of turned my mood on its head and I'm not as stoked to get out of the house for once and see a theatre movie for the first time in a year. I'll probably still go tonight.
Oof. I don't recall there being anything overtly political in this movie. Was he referring to the casting of Dev Patel? (Hopefully not.)
It doesn't seem like there'd be anything overtly political in the movie either judging from the trailers, synopses, etc. He said he didn't like Dev Patel, but I took that to mean he didn't like his acting. It just occurred to me that he's a brown guy cast in a role of characters that would be historically white (presumably). This didn't even cross my mind before. Is that what you mean by the casting of Dev Patel? Is that actually a thing?
Very possible. Although I will say it plays very realistically in the movie. MINOR SPOILER: Gawain's mother is of a similar complexion. There's definitely some very gentle re-interpretation of the range of ethnicities that might have existed in this world. But it was perfectly credible and tasteful and never even slightly took me out of the world, not unlike Fear Street 1666. (I'll have compared The Green Knight to every movie I've seen by the time we're done here.)
Later I'll make a new post because I'm going tonight. It's my, let's see, fifth time back at the theater since the pandemic, although it'll be my first time going alone. it's going to be packed too, two people already bought seats next to me. I'd maybe prefer it with a less populated theater but just I wanted to get out of the house and see a movie tonight
oh, okay. so this is wholly original and a testament to his overall understanding of a visual medium. what fantastic visual storytelling, somehow surpassing Gunpowder Milkshake, but just barely. functionally speaking About Endlessness is superior, but that guy uses static shots. i want thirty minutes of this movie projected on my tombstone
it's laughably different than the source material. major cultural appropriation but he's an artist of course. a true artist too, and i mean it. god, to commit to making this fucking movie. i know i couldn't do it. i saw it on a dcp and, tbh, it would be better seen by me on a fine-tuned tv screen, but that's not his fault. the ending is so simple it almost makes me uncomfortable
not for me, but for someone. someone will begin to believe in things they've never believed in before, mainly related to art. but oh i forgot to mention that i need to see this with subtitles, because sometimes i got distracted and couldn't listen when people were speaking. barely anyone speaks and then when they do they give significant dialogue probably. ughck, my bad. subtitles, please. 100% sure that Lowery isn't trying to be cool and he believes in this with full conviction, which is what it takes. bravo
Some actual answers from David himself, interviewed by the great Joanna Robinson (prolific podcaster, famed analyst of genre film & TV who correctly predicted the ending of GoT, etc). This article gets into the meat of things. Skip if you prefer ambiguity. I'm comforted to see that my interpretation aligns pretty closely with David's intentions. Although:
I think I undervalued the role that Morgana & witchcraft have in the story.
And the mushrooms are not mentioned at all. Maybe not that important?
(https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/07/green-knight-ending-explained-does-he-die-gawain-dev-patel)
Director David Lowery tackles your most burning questions.
I'm sure David planned this:
https://twitter.com/muzach/status/1420985914906451969?s=21
William Friedkin spliced in three frames of Space Jam.
SPOILERSQuote from: Jeremy Blackman on July 30, 2021, 12:55:09 PMSince I've been gushing, I'll throw in two criticisms, which I'd like feedback on.
I think the fox CGI needed another pass.
Gawain eating the mushroom seems to present the viewer with a viable "out" — you can choose to recontextualize everything that follows as a hallucination. (Including the giants, sadly.) This is just a type of plot device that I feel intrinsically opposed to.
potentially the most memeable moment of the movie, which in these days means more than the most memorable moment of course, is when someone asks ~"are you a spirit or reality" and someone else says "does it matter?" it's such a memeable moment that i can't remember who said it or why, and it wasn't the most important part of the movie regardless. it's just a cool statement. and that defines this movie that's a series of mini-Bjork music videos more than anything else. here is a movie that subverts the view of Arthurian Romance such that it appeals to Teenage Goths more than any other demographic, and yet it somehow, quite shockingly, cares more about morality than the original text. that's the most 21st century thing i've ever heard of. god, how i wish his interview answers were Tarkovskian, but they're not. the spirit means far more than the reality here. as far as the giant scene goes, that's pure drugs, but it doesn't matter. to address you, jb, specifically, with Alexandro's movie Psychotropic Sunrise you said it glamorized drug use but i assure you that it doesn't. that movie is about family. drugs are just a thing. from a certain perspective the giants only make sense from the drugs, while from the same perspective the fox is outrageous the whole while. was the fox a good idea? well that's a complicated question from a certain perspective, and from another perspective it's fun the fox was there
that post is both pro-this movie and pro-jb and it means to be a reasonable and appreciative reply stemming from a perspective gained over time
The mushrooms moment only irks me because it sets up an escape hatch from magical realism. Why not fully commit to the reality of Gawain's experience? Why not just let it be weird and real? Sure, the giants are a bit further afield than the ghost and the witchcraft. But this universe is wild. I don't think any of it needs to be explained as a character's hallucination.
From a quick google search:
QuoteGiants are very common throughout British folklore, often represented as the original inhabitants of the island before the civilising of the island and it is likely that the traditions existed before Geoffrey's time. Indeed, many of Arthur's retinue from the earliest stratum of the Arthurian legend, i.e. before Geoffrey, appear to be giants.
David is allowed to have his own more grounded version of Arthurian legend, obviously. But I wanted it to go all the way, and I felt this one moment uncharacteristicly pulls back from the film's overall audaciousness. Trailer expectations could be playing a role here too.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 01, 2021, 02:33:38 AM
The mushrooms moment only irks me because it sets up an escape hatch from magical realism. Why not fully commit to the reality of Gawain's experience? Why not just let it be weird and real? Sure, the giants are a bit further afield than the ghost and the witchcraft. But this universe is wild. I don't think any of it needs to be explained as a character's hallucination.
From a quick google search:
QuoteGiants are very common throughout British folklore, often represented as the original inhabitants of the island before the civilising of the island and it is likely that the traditions existed before Geoffrey's time. Indeed, many of Arthur's retinue from the earliest stratum of the Arthurian legend, i.e. before Geoffrey, appear to be giants.
you're adhering to logic, absolutely, while from an artistic perspective the outrageousness of the giants validates the reasonableness of the fox. as in, splitting the difference validates the fox. it's bullshit on the one hand, and on another hand it's presenting a new logic, which is what artshit does. while i don't think the new reality offers true depth, i do think it offers a feeling, and a feeling can mean as much as anything else
https://twitter.com/GiteshPandya/status/1421833755401113600
I just got back from seeing it .... Oh golly, I did love it. What a movie to see as the first back from ... what is it for me, a year or more since going to the cinema?
Yes, this was a visual feast. The misty hills, forests, bogs, and castles were splendid. Especially since I've lately been reading Ted Hughes' poetry and drawing forests and simple landscapes. It does mostly have that modern look where things look so clean and hyper-real that I can't tell what's effects and what's part of an actual location. But the visuals on the whole are a treat with lots of the monochrome-heavy palettes (like a blue-glowing sky or .... Well, if you've seen it, you know what I mean).
I did glance at some viewer reviews before seeing it just to gauge the reactions, and I saw a pattern of people (from the negative reviews) saying that they couldn't understand the green knight's dialogue because it was (I paraphrase) "all electronically altered." The irony is that I found the green knight's dialogue very clear and by far the easiest to understand -- not that I had a huge issue understanding the other dialogue recordings. (Also, it seemed those in the negative reviews didn't like the fantastical elements or the ambiguity, as well as the slower pace. I concede that the somewhat slow-ish pace may not be for audiences who are accustomed to endless action these days. But the adverse reaction to any ambiguity for some, especially with the ending or whatever, really makes me incredibly cynical about audiences wanting to be spoon-fed.)
Some of the reviews I glanced at said it was like watching side-quests to the main quest (and some complained they didn't understand the relation to the main quest), and it was kind of like that, but that's part of why I really liked it. Actually, I think it would've been even better if it had gone on longer and had more steps along the way. I could live in the world a lot longer, really (though I understand if a lot of audiences would want things to be wrapped up by a certain point).
Indulging the video game side-quest thing, it did remind me of a lot of parts in The Witcher III (I know there are a few gamers in here). The part with the "spirit" in the movie really reminded me of sailing to the island in The Witcher and discovering the trapped spirit of a woman in the top floor of an old house. The general sparseness of the landscapes and such reminding me of The Witcher as well. I admit I don't know much about the mythologies and folklore of different countries, but this at least reminded me of the atmosphere and fantastical elements of The Witcher. And then there are obvious medieval comparisons like Macbeth and such.
In terms of my interpretation .... Well, I immediately thought about "fairness" and honour. If Gawain had chosen to not let another do unto him as he had done to them (i.e., chop another's head off in glory, disallow them the same opportunity, and then reap the benefits), he would gain everything but live a dishonourable and "tainted" life. His dissatisfaction is evident in the "flash forward" scenes. So he opts out and accepts the consequences. Anyway, I'll have to read the article with David explaining things now.
well you know, when he gets to the green knight, and waits for the green knight to wake up, and for the green knight to pay him back, except for the flash forward this particular section doesn't last long. there isn't much to it. that's why all the side questing happens. his time as a guest in the castle before the final showdown is longer and more nuanced in the book. this movie chose to devote itself more to Gawain's search efforts because that concentrates on Gawain. the whole bit about the horse being stolen and Gawain being tied up and all that, that's the Lowery touch, not in the source, and he pretty much kills that. i don't know if the field of dead soldiers really makes sense but i think that's a great scene, with the rolling fog and whatnot too. he couldn't leave out the castle scene because Gawain had to get the garter. it being made of material sourced from his mother is also a Lowery touch
I don't know if Gawain's personal perspective about fairness and honor amounts to much more than extreme fatalism. it's a dramatic gesture to leave feelings with the audience but, oh, I like how in the source Gawain stays alive by wearing the garter, and everyone understands why he would do that and laughs. this movie is just dramatic, which it can be, has every right to be
That struck me -- that his time in the castle as a guest lasted longer than the final showdown, but not nearly long enough for me. Although I think the most "important" or "telling" conversations happened during this time (i.e., Alicia Vikander's speech, and the fireside conversation between Gawain and ... I forget his name now). I could almost deduce that it's much longer in the book, though. It was almost like it felt a bit rushed? Several things remain perplexing, such as the book given to Gawain, the blind (?) mother, the host's departing kiss (it kind of felt rushed and really unexpected). In fact, thinking about it now, my biggest complaints are probably about this section ... not because they're overtly unexplained per say (I could've missed some things too), but because they felt important without enough running time available.
I just wish more time could be given to those scenes/scenarios. Like, the forest scenes with the thief were fantastic, but a bit slower. Not saying they should be cut. I love the 720 pan with Gawain, the skeleton, and then Gawain. You can glean a lot from just that, but then there is so much condensed into the "guest in the castle" part where it feels like it's not explored as much. I'm not saying anything should be cut, though. I think I made it clear that I think I would love to have much more of this movie. I admit the guest castle scenes were pretty enigmatic .... So to me it's kind of, what's Lowery trying to say or do with the pieces/the looser elements?
One of the nice things was that I didn't read the source before seeing the movie (and I don't know much about Arthurian stories), so I could kind of experience it solely as Lowery's story. Which is kind of cool in the sense that I want to see what a director is giving me, what I can glean from what he solely puts on the screen.
if you read the book or not it's solely Lowery's movie. the book helps expand certain details but overall this movie is his own creation. to be honest i don't quite understand why he didn't choose his own title and make it clearer that this was his own creation. if anything that would've helped him crystalize details himself
Maybe a marketing decision. It can draw some of the crowd who know the original story, I suppose. Maybe "Sir Gawain's Journey" or something is more appropriate, but I really don't know.
I must say that it's pretty weird seeing David's film releases. It's cool to say you used to speak with him, Jenkins, when you both were in a position of just trying to Make It. I mean, insanely cool. What I mean by saying it's weird to see his films is that I really (I'm going to say it) didn't like A Ghost Story (I'm just going to say it). But I ADORE The Old Man and the Gun. I mean, I can't say it enough. The cinematography, acting, script, casting, etc. in that one blew my mind. That movie had so much charm and beauty ....
The Green Knight feels like a really big-budget movie but like he's retaining some "indie" sensibilities. I mean, the progression is remarkable. It's no doubt a big-cinema movie .... I just watched it in the middle of the afternoon on a big cinema screen and the theatre was full (by pandemic protocols). But A Ghost Story felt smaller (I watched it at the smaller "art house" cinema here), The Old Man and the Gun felt understated ... and this one felt HUGE. Like it should be on the big screen. Really, my biggest criticism is that Alicia Vikander's "monologue" felt very contrived, which was almost totally a script/direction thing. There is a specific moment in A Ghost Story that feels very similar, but a lot more amplified .... This is my biggest criticism of Lowery's choices thus far ....
Responding to much of the above:
People complaining about side quests are just flagging themselves as not being interested in fantasy/mythic storytelling.
The only scene I found to be even remotely slow was Gawain waiting for TGK to wake up, but then of course it's revealed to be for a purpose, and I liked it. But that was definitely the moment when the audience shifted in their seats.
I too thought TGK's dialogue was perfectly audible. And I love that performance.
As I understand it, the blind woman in the castle is a powerful witch, probably in league with Gawain's mother, if not Gawain's mother herself. Alicia Vikander #2 is her projection. This is why the monologue didn't bother me—that's not a "real" character, per se. (And I don't think the monologue in A Ghost Story even pretended to be organic, so that didn't bother me either.)
I was remembering you said this
Quote from: csage97 on August 01, 2021, 08:04:03 PM
the host's departing kiss (it kind of felt rushed and really unexpected).
so the host gives him the fox from the hunt, then the kiss is what Gawain received during his day, referencing his affection with the host's wife. again in the source text this is handled in a much more coherent and significant fashion. i agree that this section isn't dynamic and i think instead of remixing source material it could have been created under a whole new design. i mean this movie adds in the blind woman which, again, really lacks the elegance of the source material, per the movie's Teen Goth intention
I referenced The Green Knight in my current book after reading The Green Knight, and that reference still works fine, because it refers to his first encounter with Gawain, which although altered in the movie is philosophically preserved, but if I had mentioned the girdle it'd be fucked now, which is what I mean when I call this movie cultural appropriation. it's, like, weird to take it upon yourself to subvert an icon that could last through time rather than retitle the movie. it's a cheap win, I'm sorry but it is. it's caring more about your own perspective than the culture being represented. I don't respect it and I haven't said I do, although I do still support this movie and this thought was guided not by further thought of the movie but by editing my book
https://twitter.com/dawnofthediscs/status/1424790670812778511
https://twitter.com/cevangelista413/status/1425146843453927431
https://twitter.com/milanreclabel/status/1427664469728055299
I watched tonight and I'm still processing. It was very different to anything I thought it would be. And I feel like I'll be thinking about it for a long time.
Quote from: jenkins on August 02, 2021, 12:33:58 AM
I was remembering you said this
Quote from: csage97 on August 01, 2021, 08:04:03 PM
the host's departing kiss (it kind of felt rushed and really unexpected).
so the host gives him the fox from the hunt, then the kiss is what Gawain received during his day, referencing his affection with the host's wife. again in the source text this is handled in a much more coherent and significant fashion. i agree that this section isn't dynamic and i think instead of remixing source material it could have been created under a whole new design. i mean this movie adds in the blind woman which, again, really lacks the elegance of the source material, per the movie's Teen Goth intention
So in regard to the host's kiss, I took the agreement they made to be whatever the host hunts will be traded for whatever Gawain gets that day. Gawain had a sexual experience with the host's partner and I took this scene to be the host claiming what was his. There is an implication that more than a kiss is expected and the host states he could take what is owed if necessary. This sinister threat is somewhat countered by the tenderness with which Gawain says "unhand me and I'll be on my way" (or similar). This tenderness bowled me over, and I can imagine that scene being played on the opposite side of the spectrum - with physical threat followed by a violent or shouty recoil. The way it is played allows for the complexity of the scene to really show itself. Could be I'm reading too much into it, or misreading it. But it worked for me.
Review (https://www.lastmovieoutpost.com/the-green-knight-review/)
QuoteLook, I like an intelligent movie, one that makes you think, but there is this weird line between "intelligent and thought-provoking" and "opaque mindf**k that feels like something you were required to watch in high school."
Paul Thomas Anderson's Punch Drunk Love is a great example of something that makes you think, that has layers upon layers of symbolism and yet is easily accessible to your average filmgoer. The Green Knight is not.
:yabbse-grin:
Oof. I genuinely, seriously fail to see how TGK is apparently so inaccessible and inscrutable. It's a straightforward fantasy adventure story with some magic and weird imagery. There is some ambiguity, but only in a few scenes, and it's clearly the type of ambiguity that's meant to be savored. Otherwise it has a pretty clearly-structured beginning, middle, and end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyn2wWwrwwU
Really wanted to like this - but it came off like a beautiful chest without anything of use within; I can't imagine that the "chapters" in this film juxtapose each other, rather they mark segments in a wandering journey without footing in much thematic work. Like, yeah, I get the morality play of its onset and conclusion, but all in between is a mist. What's dope about that though is that those going through their own trials can interpret that last hour and change however they prefer.
Gonna keep thinkin' on it, but apart from its beautiful production design and cinematography, & Gawain's characterization as a solipsist fuccboi, I didn't find much of note here. That said: the movies LOOKS beautiful and grand. I wish the script met its mettle at the art-metal middle.
SPOILERS
Personally I find beauty and power in its thematic simplicity.
There is a feeling of aimlessness (even when there's a clear aim) that could read as emptiness, but for me it reflects Gawain's own lack of purpose. It's a story of prolonged adolescence. He's been so sheltered and coddled that everything is a new experience, and every decision he makes is bad. (Except one?)
So that's the movie – Gawain failing his way toward a goal, scared out of his mind, not even sure he wants it. Then he finally finds something in himself. How comedic that is depends on your interpretation of the final moment, but yeah. The big thematic punch is definitely reserved for that last sequence.
Yeah, and I honestly dug all that! Gawain's characterization holds the entire conceit together. But there are other films where the same sort of wandering 2nd act has a juxtaposition to each beat that enhances the whole.
The Green Knight's "design" as a feature film makes sense to me. Although I'm not sure it won me over, I can tell its aim iz true.
Interesting. I think this comes down to personal preference rather than diverging interpretations. Which is probably a good thing.
This movie does a great job of articulating Pagan iconography without it overtaking a more traditional construction of "Medieval" aesthetics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWdZS8B4G2A
^also working on Lowery's Peter Pan & Wendy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf3XnUykKI4
commentary on the framing and formal decisions in lighting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnD34OddiEU