Quote from: Pro T-Bonohopefully this might bring this post back to life....does anyone find that duping the audience this way goes beyond storytelling device and borders on immoral storytelling...?

if ever there were a code of ethics for filmmaking, lying to the audience would undoubtedly violate it...

i love this film, but i hate that they took such a liberty with the trust of the audience...

i think that maybe "based on a true story" is a joke. When you look closely Fargo is a comedy. You have dumb criminals, pregnant woman who can barely walk but uses her brain and men who laugh at what she sais(politely), don't think but are big and mobile. And the woman solves the crime and makes the arrest. Man who wants to kill his wife because of her money, overbearing father in law. I would say it's a parody of those stories that come on a front page of the newspapers. It maybe wasn't literally true story, but fragments are almost criminal stereotipes. I like when people take sterotipes and make fun of them. If Fargo was made more serious it wouldn't work - it would be just another predictable movie. On the beginning of the film you suspect how it will end but still the characters bring that element of surprise. On almost every movie you could put "based on a true story".

which is kinda what i was getting at, only you put it better than me

all that's valid and interesting but not the result of using such a device in my opinion.  i also doubt it was the coen brothers intent.  they're not expecting the audience to think about the senerio that much.  they wanted people to go "oh my god, that really happened!" at the end of the film.  it's an inside joke.  not part of the comedy, as true as it may very well be.  this is a case in which the ends do not justify the means because most film goers won't get that far in the analysis.  it has more bad effects then good.

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Quote from: socketlevelfine, all that's valid and interesting but not the result of using such a device.  i also doubt it was the coen brothers intent.  they're not expecting the audience to think about the senerio that much.  they wanted people to go "oh my god, that really happened!" at the end of the film.  it's an inside joke.  not part of the comedy, as true as it very well be.  this is a case in which the ends do not justify the means because most film goers won't get that far in the analysis.  it has more bad effects then good.

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They wanted to open peoples perception of the story. It works alot better if people think it happened for real.

It's a totally different movie with the 'true story' label on it.

I think they wrote it with that in mind. It's not like they, in post, said like 'hey, you know what would be fun...?'

i don't know about that, have you seen the interview with the coens and they talk about the stranger in the big lebowski.  sam elliot even asked them why he was there and they said they didn't really know, they just loved it.  they don't know why they add some stuff in, it just gives them a kick.  they seem like guys who would for sure add something in cause they think it's silly and clever.

don't get me wrong fargo should have won the oscar that year, i love the film.  but if adding that little statement at the start of the film adds so much to the film, like you say, I think that's pretty lame.

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Quote from: socketleveli don't know about that, have you seen the interview with the coens and they talk about the stranger in the big lebowski.  sam elliot even asked them why he was there and they said they didn't really know, they just loved it.  they don't know why they add some stuff in, it just gives them a kick.  they seem like guys who would for sure add something in cause they think it's silly and clever.

don't get me wrong fargo should have won the oscar that year, i love the film.  but if adding that little statement at the start of the film adds so much to the film, like you say, I think that's pretty lame.

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Well, it's a part of the film. An important part.

Filmmakers put the 'true story' thing on movies actually based on true stories but the movie never ever reflects the reality.

In that case, all filmmakers lie.

Like Soderbergh said: "Films lie."

People know that the truth is stretched in these situations, but always go home and tout "Man, I saw this true story!" And treat it like Bible truth anyway.  Calling Fargo a true story only made people say "Really?" and believing it anyway.  I appreciate how they played the audience like this.  There's no movie that's a 100% truth.  You can't film without people knowing you are, and when they know you are, they act differently.  So, you give filmmakers an inch, and they'll take a mile.  You say they can make a fiction out of truth, and here you go.  The Coens played on people's emotions to draw them in, and that in my opinion, was as hilarious as it was genius.

The film rocked either way.

i agree.  there is no way to ever believe a history book for that matter, communication is subjective.  so why add to the confusion?  i still would have loved the film if they didn't.

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Quote from: socketleveli agree.  there is no way to ever believe a history book for that matter, communication is subjective.  so why add to the confusion?  i still would have loved the film if they didn't.

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I love it too but you gotta agree it would be a totally different film without it...

it's more of an issue in ethics and morals for me.  they just shouldn't have done it.

sure the experience would be different (not the way your saying it, more for the "holy shit" factor) but not as drastic as you're letting on.  i saw the film with my parents back when i was still living at home, and being the teenager i was back then, I said to them, "holy shit! can you believe that was a true story."  and they said "really, how do you know?"  I told them it was at the start of the film.  they shrugged their shoulders because that wasn't on their minds during the film.  now i'm not saying this is everyone, and maybe only a small percentage of the population but they still loved the movie regardless.  i don't think it does anything but aid in keeping the audience interested in the film.  the coens made a good enough film that they didn't need to do that.  in the process they fucked credibility in the ass.

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in agreement with socket......its ethics, not a question of good or bad storytelling, because it obviously worked to their advantage, but does that warrant its use?

I don't agree they did anything with credibility. Why are you singeling this film out? There are hundreds of films claiming it's a true story they tell...

A Beautiful Mind for example...

but it's nowhere near the truth.

Why this film? Because they're honest and want to let everybody in on the joke?

its funny how you say it's honest, i think it's absolutly dishonest.  how can they be honest about the humour when it's decieving the audience?

a beautiful mind has more thruth to the story then fargo.  I'm not pointing my finger just to this film, i'm sure there are others.  those films are having just as bad effect, i just don't know which films are like that.  see that's the problem, when you do something like that a lot people will never know if it's the truth.

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Quote from: socketlevelits funny how you say it's honest, i think it's absolutly dishonest.  how can they be honest about the humour when it's decieving the audience?

a beautiful mind has more thruth to the story then fargo.  I'm not pointing my finger just to this film, i'm sure there are others.  those films are having just as bad effect, i just don't know which films are like that.  see that's the problem, when you do something like that a lot people will never know if it's the truth.

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that's not true.
Fargo jokes with that "based on a true story" and they say that. Beautiful Mind takes real man, a Nobel prize winner, and talks about his mental condition, the movie is ABOUT that mental condition, but plays with facts. He(the director/writer) lied very much about some facts, but was reluctant to admit that.
First of all, he invented all that thing with a friend and that little girl - he showed shizophrenia like a disease where an adult imagines friends like children do. He evaded all that thing about the character being a gay, or at least bisexual. That is very important because some scientist think that psychosis turns up when a person can't accept the fact that he/she is possibly homosexual(that is only one of the few possible causes of shizophrenia, but there are involved many factors). Beautiful Mind i see like a mockery, something like "look, he's completely nuts, but he's so good with numbers. Can you believe this?" The director tries to hide that by making his film looking like a lemonade, but you can feel through film that he was uncomfortable doing it.

"Based on a true story"

Why don't you see it as a part o the film? Why do you feel like it's a message from the writers?