Saraband

cowboykurtis · July 22, 2005, 02:29:09 AM

fuck, i had no idea this was shot digitally - that's some bad news - it makes no sense to me why bergman (of all people) would shoot digitally - especially if he expressed distaste for the finished image - thats a shame

Ghostboy · July 22, 2005, 02:34:32 PM

Quote from: cowboykurtisfuck, i had no idea this was shot digitally - that's some bad news - it makes no sense to me why bergman (of all people) would shoot digitally - especially if he expressed distaste for the finished image - thats a shame

He liked the way it looks (and it looks pretty gorgeous) - he just didn't like the way it looked when it was transferred to film. And he has a point - while interesting transmutations in transfers frequently occur, HD films always look best projected from the medium they were shot in on a high quality projector. No question about it.

cowboykurtis · July 22, 2005, 02:52:44 PM

Quote from: Ghostboy
Quote from: cowboykurtisfuck, i had no idea this was shot digitally - that's some bad news - it makes no sense to me why bergman (of all people) would shoot digitally - especially if he expressed distaste for the finished image - thats a shame

He liked the way it looks (and it looks pretty gorgeous) - he just didn't like the way it looked when it was transferred to film. And he has a point - while interesting transmutations in transfers frequently occur, HD films always look best projected from the medium they were shot in on a high quality projector. No question about it.

this is a much larger debate - i disagree with you i think it looks better transfered to film - becomes more subtle and easier to submit to - however, one's taste is one's taste - i've had too many long winded debates about digital vs. film that never lead anywhere productive.

regardless, this is disapointing news for me.

I think such a huge component of Scenes From a Marraige is the visual quality (or lack of quality one might say) - it's a very drab and dull looking film.

HD is too bold and robust for bergman - it does not do this story justice (which i assume continues the tone of scenes from a marraige).

I'm curious to know what the exactly drove bergman to choose this format after working on film his whole life...especially for this story - HD can not achieve the intimacy and immediacy that he acheived in SFAM.

pete · July 22, 2005, 02:57:50 PM

I thought he shot digital because he did it for the TV station and that's what they do on TV.

cowboykurtis · July 22, 2005, 02:59:17 PM

Quote from: peteI thought he shot digital because he did it for the TV station and that's what they do on TV.

SFAM was also shot for TV

pete · July 22, 2005, 03:14:12 PM

and back in the days things were shot on film. I love lucy for a while was on film.
I definitely think HD looks a lot worse than film, or looks like mediocre film at best, but to call HD "bold and robust" and to think that film is responsible somehow for the intimacy and immediacy of scenes from a marriage (A film I don't really remember since it was just a class requirement) seems a bit over the top. and saraband doesn't really continue the "tone" of scenes from a marriage I guess (but I dunno how you define tone), maybe continue is not the right word, whatever, it's different.

cowboykurtis · July 22, 2005, 04:07:07 PM

Quote from: peteback in the days things were shot on film. to call HD "bold and robust" and to think that film is responsible somehow for the intimacy and immediacy of scenes from a marriage (A film I don't really remember since it was just a class requirement) seems a bit over the top. and saraband doesn't really continue the "tone" of scenes from a marriage I guess (but I dunno how you define tone), maybe continue is not the right word, whatever, it's different.

First off, you admit to not really remembering SFAM, so your opinion is not valid what so ever. You can not really have an opinion about how Saraband continues or doesn't continue the lineage of style/substance that was set up with SFAM.

Re: his choice to shoot HD: It disapoints me how people are so quick to say "well, this is the "new" technology, so this is what we're going to shoot on". This seems to be the attitude of many young filmmakers I know - It comes from being uneducated and lazy - A reluctance to learn the craft and technology - Many think HD is "easier" so they shoot HD. I actual know people who shoot HD only because they are affraid of not getting an image with film - quite sad if you ask me.

Back to the topic at hand: Bergman (if anyone) invariably had the choice of format. I doubt somone as astute as Bergman would make choices based on the fact that HD is the "new format and everyone else is doing it."

pete · July 22, 2005, 04:26:20 PM

by the same logic, since you have not seen Saraband, your opinion also has no validity whatsoever since you have no idea how the format of HD is utilized in this film. I've at least seen Scenes from a Marriage, I just couldn't really connect the two films together. whatever man.
secondly, I really wasn't defending the HD technology as the "new technology" other than saying that Bergman's probably shot on HD before for his other televised films.
I agree with you on some people's choices of HD based on their fear of film, and I certainly don't mystify the format. I've only used it once in a "digital film" class two years ago and it seemed a bit tedious to me. I only defended HD because you seemed a bit over the top in your distaste for the format. but I don't think HD is without merits and I don't know why you think that Bergman can't possibly make HD work for him and his material. it all seemed a bit reactionary (of the knee jerk caliber), and that included how you viewed my posts as well.

Ghostboy · July 22, 2005, 04:29:04 PM

For the most part, I actually agree with you regarding 35mm transfers (although more for lower grade formats than HD) - but HD's own aesthetic qualities are never on display better than when it remains 'pure,' so to speak. It is, after all, its own medium, and there is a valid argument that as a medium its merits are best displayed without concession to another (just as 35mm films generally look the best on the big screen, projected off 35mm film). There's a lot of grey area, though, regarding evolving technology, and as you pointed out, its rather pointless to debate it further.

Regardless, I hope you don't let this deter you from the film. Its in many ways a continuation of 'Scenes From a Marriage,' although Johan and Marietta aren't the sole focus of the drama (although they are, indeed, catalysts for all of it) - it's a beautiful and worthy extension (or epilogue) of the previous film, and it stands on its own as well.

Visually, it doesn't really look like 'Scenes From a Marriage,' although on the whole Bergman's visual choices are unmistakable. Have you seen 'Autumn Sonata?' This looks an awful lot like that one.

samsong · July 24, 2005, 09:18:08 PM

loved the film... i think it's just as good as anything in bergman's oeuvre, which consists almost completely of masterpieces (in my opinion). whether that makes Saraband one, i'm not really sure about yet, but it's definitely a truly great film and, again, i absolutely loved it. the visual homage to bresson

(Mouchette more specifically) was fantastic and made the experience of seeing bergman's final film (although identifying it as such, to me, is completely pointless.. but i'm just stating a fact) that much better. i wish he'd make more though because he's still got it.