okay, this may seem stupid and i cant remember if there has been a topic specifically about this before, but its something i was curious about because of a decision i made recently....
-what is more important to you on a dvd release? a flawless transfer or great extras?
and i'm not talking about the difference between a shitty transfer or not. probably to some people the difference might not be noticable. but like the duel spider-man releases that are coming out soon. for anyone who doesnt already own the film, and might consider buying it would you get the Superbit with no extras? or the Deluxe loaded with extras? i always thought i would go for the Extras without question. however recently when i bought Lawrence Of Arabia, i got the superbit instead of the 2 disc with extras. i read a review of the disc at digital bits in their year end best of list and they convinced me the transfer was SO MUCH better it was astounding. so i ditched my plans for the other disc and got the superbit.
obviously, a superbit transfer with other discs loaded with extras is ideal, but in these rare instances where you are forced to make a choice, where do your tastes lie?
BARE BONES, BETTER TRANSFER?
LOADED WITH EXTRAS, INFERIOR TRANSFER?
For me, it all depends on the movie
How about 2-disc sets, with a Superbit movie and extras on disc two? That would be ideal. Otherwise, my excuse for not choosing superbit is that my home theater system isn't good enough to do the extra quality justice.
Do Superbit movies really have new transfers, or are they just the same transfers at a higher bitrate? The latter would seem to be the case to me, from my DVD authoring experience, but I really don't know.
DVD extras will always win out for me.
Quote from: GhostboyDo Superbit movies really have new transfers, or are they just the same transfers at a higher bitrate? The latter would seem to be the case to me, from my DVD authoring experience, but I really don't know.
Same transfers with higher bitrate. With the Superbit Bram Stoker's Dracula DVD you can see all the print scratches with such clarity.
But I still think the most important thing on a DVD is that it has the actual movie.
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaumBut I still think the most important thing on a DVD is that it has the actual movie.
thats not really my question. use the Lawrence of Arabia or Spider-man dvds as examples.
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaumBut I still think the most important thing on a DVD is that it has the actual movie.
If it didn't include the movie, wouldn't that just make it a CD? Obviously if you bought the DVD, you like the movie. What mod-age is asking is the best compliment to the film; more insight with extras, or a crisp, clean print with maximum sound.
the transfer is the most important, but of course everyone likes the extras.
My "deer hunter" dvd only has a trailer (which sucks, It say "THE DEER HUNTER" 200000 times!) but the transfer is very very good, so I still think of it as a great dvd. The same goes for "the elephant man"
I don't really care much for extras, give me a decent transfer over any "Pictures from the set"
Quote from: themodernage02Quote from: RoyalTenenbaumBut I still think the most important thing on a DVD is that it has the actual movie.
thats not really my question. use the Lawrence of Arabia or Spider-man dvds as examples.
and
Quote from: MacGuffinIf it didn't include the movie, wouldn't that just make it a CD? Obviously if you bought the DVD, you like the movie. What mod-age is asking is the best compliment to the film; more insight with extras, or a crisp, clean print with maximum sound.
I'm sorry, I was just trying to be a stupid dick.
I have the 2 disc Lawrence of Arabia dvd. I see nothing wrong with the transfer.
I'd rather have the extras, especially if it has commentary.
Quote from: rustinglassthe transfer is the most important, but of course everyone likes the extras.
My "deer hunter" dvd only has a trailer (which sucks, It say "THE DEER HUNTER" 200000 times!) but the transfer is very very good, so I still think of it as a great dvd. The same goes for "the elephant man"
This is my feeling exactly. Extras are just that: It's crucial to have the highest quality rendering of the film itself. One of the my reasons to love the folks at Criterion is their commitment to providing both the best possible transfer AND relevant (and often rare) supplements.
But it's all about the movie, for me.
Sure, extras are swell, but the lack of any wouldn't dissuade me from making a purchase if I really love the movie/show. If the disc is loaded, it's certainly a higher priority b/c I know I'll get more out of it than just watching the movie again.
But here's a thought that makes me sound like some old man:
With all the whining about 21 Grams, Matrix-rereleases and other stuff, I thought back to the old days before DVD took off. When a movie came to the video, 85% of the time it was rental priced ($90ish), so your only options were renting it multiple times or waiting for a used copy. Or waiting 6 more months for the sell-through release. But now, 4 months after theatrical release, the dvd is out for 20 bucks and all the waiting is lost. Things have gotten better, the prices have gone down, so if you have to wait a couple extra months for some extra stuff BOO HOO. It's better than it used to be.
Quote from: MacGuffinDVD extras will always win out for me.
me too, except for this case. here is the review that made me stray from thy chosen path.....
BEST DVD - VIDEO (RESTORATION): Lawrence of Arabia: SuperbitNow here is what Columbia's Superbit label was made for. A quantum leap over the original release of this title, the Superbit Lawrence of Arabia is quite possibly one of the most breathtaking DVDs ever released. Supervised by original LOA restorer (and Bits contributor) Robert A. Harris, this disc shows exactly what this format is capable of simply through careful attention to compression and color correction, not artificial enhancement or electronic sharpening. Kudos to the team at
Columbia TriStar for stepping up to the plate and finally doing right by this important film. If you want to experience one of the most beautiful films ever shot the way it was meant to be seen, this is the way to go.
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although after reading what you said about the Dracula transfer, i'm a little worried. i was under the impression they had done a new transfer, but that may not be the case.
Quote from: themodernage02BARE BONES, BETTER TRANSFER?
LOADED WITH EXTRAS, INFERIOR TRANSFER?
In the case of Lawrence of Arabia, I go with the Superbit anyday. A film like Spider-Man, I would go with the Deluxe Edition in a heartbeat. Two entirely different films that are on entirely different levels of entertainment in my view.
Quote from: themodernage02after reading what you said about the Dracula transfer, i'm a little worried. i was under the impression they had done a new transfer, but that may not be the case.
I think the reason why the Superbit Lawrence DVD looks so good, and is given such praise, is because it was given a new transfer. Otherwise, they're the same print.
http://www.dvdfile.com/software/review/dvd-video_7/lawrenceofarabia_sb.html
..i got to go w/ extras baby....
i personaly believe that the rerason why dvd's are the film geek crack is b/c of the extras...i'll take a loaded spider-man LOA over a bare bones superbit anyday....and i don't care aboutr being ripped off either (21 grams).....and
another example would be panic room....if both the superbit and the three disk werer avialble at release..i couldn't think of anyone who would pick the superbit one..(unlessyour low on cash,...but if money wasn't an issue).....
you could use this example for any film....no matter if its a pocorn film or an arthouse flick...anyone would take extras over a superbit IMO...
just use th epanic room and subsitute any film as this.
dvds werr made for this reason of extras and the studiios etc. know this ..hence all of the double dipping and re-re-re-re-re-re-r-r-e---er--re-re-r-eRELEASEs of one film over and over
-my 2 sense
Quote from: NEON MERCURYi personaly believe that the rerason why dvd's are the film geek crack is b/c of the extras...
I think I disagree with you. Let's use Criterion for example. They release films with stunning restorations that ultimately sell their products. They have tons of extras but it's the new prints that are found and how the films are restored that get people creaming their pants (recent example: The Rules of the Games and myself).
Even though I have a shit tv and sound system, I'll take the transfer any day over the extras. Plus, with a busy work/trying to do indie films schedule, who has time to watch extras anyway? I have a list of 30 odd commentaries I've wanted to get to...
I'll put an exception for the really amazing extras though, like the docs on La Strada or Straw Dogs. Those can be almost as good as the movies.
Quote from: themodernage02recently when i bought Lawrence Of Arabia, i got the superbit instead of the 2 disc with extras. i read a review of the disc at digital bits in their year end best of list and they convinced me the transfer was SO MUCH better it was astounding. so i ditched my plans for the other disc and got the superbit.
with a dvd like
Lawrence of Arabia it is such a classic film, obviously you want the best picture quality possible. certainly this should go for every film, but one as classic as this with such beautiful photography especially. i had already bought the two-disc before the superbit came out. in this particular case i am going to go ahead and get the superbit for the picture. the extras on the dvd are so great i cant go without the former. so i would say if you really, really, need both...buy both. this is the only dvd in superbit that is out that i will do this for. good topic by the way.
The most important thing is the video and audio quality. Extras are great but not necessary. However, if it is a bare bones disc from a major studio, it had better not be too expensive, since people may choose to buy a different disc with many extras if the price is similar.
Lawrence of Arabia is a special case since Columbia screwed up the first transfer. The Superbit version largely corrected those problems, and that is the only version I own. I didn't buy the SE since I read that it was problematic, and I would rather do without a movie than to see a mediocre version, unless it is extremely rare. If I want to see the extras I can check the SE out from the library.
Quote from: Weak2ndActBut here's a thought that makes me sound like some old man:
With all the whining about 21 Grams, Matrix-rereleases and other stuff, I thought back to the old days before DVD took off. When a movie came to the video, 85% of the time it was rental priced ($90ish), so your only options were renting it multiple times or waiting for a used copy. Or waiting 6 more months for the sell-through release. But now, 4 months after theatrical release, the dvd is out for 20 bucks and all the waiting is lost. Things have gotten better, the prices have gone down, so if you have to wait a couple extra months for some extra stuff BOO HOO. It's better than it used to be.
Agree wholeheartedly. ... I used to hate the price of VHS new releases. It was infuriating. ... I can't believe that by the end of May, we'll have just about every significant movie of 2003, including ROTK, available on DVD. Just awesome. ... Now I just need to go finish that new DVD shelf!
Quote from: CinephileQuote from: NEON MERCURYi personaly believe that the rerason why dvd's are the film geek crack is b/c of the extras...
I think I disagree with you. Let's use Criterion for example. They release films with stunning restorations that ultimately sell their products. They have tons of extras but it's the new prints that are found and how the films are restored that get people creaming their pants (recent example: The Rules of the Games and myself).
i see what you are saying ...but take a gander at this example...(we will use renoir's rules of the game also..)....let say that (w/ money not anissue) you go into a store and see ROTG w/ a pristine/flawless/beatiful transfer..and crystal clear audio track(s) ....then next to that you see a different edition of ROTG w/ a "slightly" less quality in transfer/audio but lets throw in there two commentary tracks, a 1 hour documentary and and cast/crew interviews on the other edition...if you like the film there is no way one would choose the first one rather than the latter......agree?
the whole idea of superbit is such a bullshit marketing strategy it makes me sick. they make like they use up all the disc space on picture and sound and couldn't possibly fit one extra feature on there, and if they do, they put it on a second disc calling it "superbit deluxe." let's look at the punch drunk love disc. a dual layer dvd disc fits more than 8.5 gigabytes. the movie is 90 minutes long and, if you don't include the two 5.1 audio tracks, fits on a single layer (4.4 gigs). If you include the two audio tracks, the movie comes out at 5.3 gigs. This leaves us with about 3.2 gigabytes for extra material, MUCH more than is needed with the mere 30 minutes of bonus material given. so... columbia presents us with two discs, which makes the consumer think, "wow! the transfer was so good that the bonus material had to dip into a second disc! I HAVE TO BUY THIS!" the consumer will now pay a heftier price, b/c, after all, two discs means costs more money and since it's superbit and they had to do a "whole new transfer" (meaning, some lab technician had to enter a higher number on the computer to change the bitrate of the original transfer) the money is well worth it. truth is, superbit DOES offer great picture and sound, but compare this with the moulin rouge dvd. great picture, dts sound, dolby 5.1 sound, spanish 2.0 sound, TWO audio commentaries, a two hour plus running time. THIS is a disc that was so loaded that it required a 2nd disc, not PDL.
basically, all i'm saying is that superbit is an overpriced gimmick and it makes me incredibly angry.
in regards to my feelings on extras or picture, i'd probably buy the one with the better transfer. i have an hdtv now and hardly ever watch extras or listen to commentaries.
Quote from: NEON MERCURYi see what you are saying ...but take a gander at this example...(we will use renoir's rules of the game also..)....let say that (w/ money not anissue) you go into a store and see ROTG w/ a pristine/flawless/beatiful transfer..and crystal clear audio track(s) ....then next to that you see a different edition of ROTG w/ a "slightly" less quality in transfer/audio but lets throw in there two commentary tracks, a 1 hour documentary and and cast/crew interviews on the other edition...if you like the film there is no way one would choose the first one rather than the latter......agree?
I think I would have to give them both a rent somehow or read some dvd reviews online in order to find out what exactly I'm missing. Because with a film like Rules of the Game, its the restoration that means the most to me.
Taz, I agree. Read on:
Quote
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190575&highlight=superbits
Excerpts from post #26
Gattaca is an even worse example. This "Superbit" edition, which also has absolutely no extras, measures a whopping 5.91 GB. Columbia even has the gall to say they include only the most basic menus in order to save as much bandwidth as possible for the movie. This disc has 1/3 of its space unused.
Allow me to continue...
Panic Room 5.83 GB
At least Adaptation is 7 GB and has a few meager extras. Not bad for a 2 hour flick.
My favorite is Punch-Drunk Love, which is a Superbit "Deluxe". There is so much on this collection it took two full discs to hold it all. Disc 1, which is dual layer is 6 GB. Hmmm. Disc 2 is....... 1.82 GB. That's right. all of this could have easily been put on 1 disc. I'm sure the decision to use 2 wasn't so they could discontinue the 2 disc version, create a demand for the 2 disc version and then bring out the 2 disc version again at a premium. Oh, wait, they already discontinued the 2 disc version.
Just as a comparison, I'll look at Moulin Rouge!, which I got brand new (2 disc edition) for a whopping $15. Disc 1 is 7.92 GB and the movie is only a couple minutes longer than Fifth Element, and if you want extras, you have the whole second disc which is 7.87 GB! All that for half the price of a Superbit.
Many Superbits are better than the first versions, but they were usually single layered and authored several years ago, so the comparison is not entirely fair. Newer and better technology with compression, authoring, telecine, etc. are probably more influential in transfer quality than bitrate.
it's weird that that guy used the same examples as i did. i guess we're both just dvd nerds looking for conspiracy...
a commercial, a collection of clips that were available online anyway, and korean subtitles.
that's the PERFECT DVD!
i don't demand much on dvd's these. i used to be dead picky about the transfer, if the picture was in anamorphic widescreen and tadadada... i buy a lot of paramount titles like crocodile dundee, trains, planes & automobiles and so on. they're bare boned, got okay transfer but they have 5.1 digital sound. i only demand great transfer when it comes to criterion dvd's. my favorite dvd at the moment is fear and loathing in las vegas. it used to be fight club, magnolia or any other double disc dvd's. they're still hot but nothing can beat the supplements on fear and loathing.
Quote from: taz.the whole idea of superbit is such a bullshit marketing strategy it makes me sick. they make like they use up all the disc space on picture and sound and couldn't possibly fit one extra feature on there, and if they do, they put it on a second disc calling it "superbit deluxe." let's look at the punch drunk love disc. a dual layer dvd disc fits more than 8.5 gigabytes. the movie is 90 minutes long and, if you don't include the two 5.1 audio tracks, fits on a single layer (4.4 gigs). If you include the two audio tracks, the movie comes out at 5.3 gigs. This leaves us with about 3.2 gigabytes for extra material, MUCH more than is needed with the mere 30 minutes of bonus material given. so... columbia presents us with two discs, which makes the consumer think, "wow! the transfer was so good that the bonus material had to dip into a second disc! I HAVE TO BUY THIS!" the consumer will now pay a heftier price, b/c, after all, two discs means costs more money and since it's superbit and they had to do a "whole new transfer" (meaning, some lab technician had to enter a higher number on the computer to change the bitrate of the original transfer) the money is well worth it. truth is, superbit DOES offer great picture and sound, but compare this with the moulin rouge dvd. great picture, dts sound, dolby 5.1 sound, spanish 2.0 sound, TWO audio commentaries, a two hour plus running time. THIS is a disc that was so loaded that it required a 2nd disc, not PDL.
basically, all i'm saying is that superbit is an overpriced gimmick and it makes me incredibly angry.
in regards to my feelings on extras or picture, i'd probably buy the one with the better transfer. i have an hdtv now and hardly ever watch extras or listen to commentaries.
Agreed, 100% - about the Superbit thing. :yabbse-thumbup:
so I have the 2 Disc Lawrence of Arabia dvd...should I be upset?
I saw the link of the comparison, but the pictures didn't load up for me.
Quote from: billybrownQuote from: taz.the whole idea of superbit is such a bullshit marketing strategy it makes me sick. they make like they use up all the disc space on picture and sound and couldn't possibly fit one extra feature on there, and if they do, they put it on a second disc calling it "superbit deluxe." let's look at the punch drunk love disc. a dual layer dvd disc fits more than 8.5 gigabytes. the movie is 90 minutes long and, if you don't include the two 5.1 audio tracks, fits on a single layer (4.4 gigs). If you include the two audio tracks, the movie comes out at 5.3 gigs. This leaves us with about 3.2 gigabytes for extra material, MUCH more than is needed with the mere 30 minutes of bonus material given. so... columbia presents us with two discs, which makes the consumer think, "wow! the transfer was so good that the bonus material had to dip into a second disc! I HAVE TO BUY THIS!" the consumer will now pay a heftier price, b/c, after all, two discs means costs more money and since it's superbit and they had to do a "whole new transfer" (meaning, some lab technician had to enter a higher number on the computer to change the bitrate of the original transfer) the money is well worth it. truth is, superbit DOES offer great picture and sound, but compare this with the moulin rouge dvd. great picture, dts sound, dolby 5.1 sound, spanish 2.0 sound, TWO audio commentaries, a two hour plus running time. THIS is a disc that was so loaded that it required a 2nd disc, not PDL.
basically, all i'm saying is that superbit is an overpriced gimmick and it makes me incredibly angry.
in regards to my feelings on extras or picture, i'd probably buy the one with the better transfer. i have an hdtv now and hardly ever watch extras or listen to commentaries.
Agreed, 100% - about the Superbit thing. :yabbse-thumbup:
That makes Three of us
Quote from: SHAFTRso I have the 2 Disc Lawrence of Arabia dvd...should I be upset?
I saw the link of the comparison, but the pictures didn't load up for me.
I guess you mean the SE, since the Superbit is also 2 discs.
Here's probably the most dramatic comparison I've seen:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190575&highlight=superbit+lawrence
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iownjoo.com%2Ffreeimghost%2Fpmccart%2Flawrencecomp1.JPG&hash=8e88b0541be19e79fc3176c74003e8d6773f185a)
damn it
It all depends on how much you notice video artifacts. I'm fairly picky, but not unreasonably IMO. I passed on the Vertigo DVD because it had weird digital noise reduction artifacts, as did M, so I'm waiting for new DVDs of those. I don't expect pristine transfers from even 80s or 90s films, but I want the DVD to be as accurate to the source as possible. I am often wowed by what Criterion does with older films, such as The Passion of Joan of Arc.
Some things like edge enhancement you will never stop seeing once you know what it is.
Quote from: Weak2ndActSure, extras are swell, but the lack of any wouldn't dissuade me from making a purchase if I really love the movie/show. If the disc is loaded, it's certainly a higher priority b/c I know I'll get more out of it than just watching the movie again.
But here's a thought that makes me sound like some old man:
With all the whining about 21 Grams, Matrix-rereleases and other stuff, I thought back to the old days before DVD took off. When a movie came to the video, 85% of the time it was rental priced ($90ish), so your only options were renting it multiple times or waiting for a used copy. Or waiting 6 more months for the sell-through release. But now, 4 months after theatrical release, the dvd is out for 20 bucks and all the waiting is lost. Things have gotten better, the prices have gone down, so if you have to wait a couple extra months for some extra stuff BOO HOO. It's better than it used to be.
Cosign
Extra features are what they are, extra. Yeah, they're great, but what I really want is the movie. No one would buy a crappy movie if it had tons of special features. I'd rather be able to watch the movie with nice color, sound, transfer, etc., than have special features I hardly watch more than once.