THE CRITICS - SIXTIES-CINEPHILIA STYLE

Started by godardian, May 16, 2003, 01:02:04 PM

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godardian

May 16, 2003, 01:02:04 PM
Okay, so we all know their names... but which of these unashamedly cinephilic critics is the most insightful? The most astute? The most "I never heard of that, but now that I've read this person's rave, godDAMN, do I need to see it!" Which has had the most effect on you as a cinephile?

If I missed any, please post. I tried to include the most universally acknowledged- though always contested- candidates.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

#1
May 16, 2003, 01:15:55 PM
Pauline helped launch a lot of my fav writer/directors careers, and Sarris is the most fun and succinct read... but I disagree with these two a lot. They seem to go on more of their own agenda, and miss the point of a lot of flicks.

So the Cahiers crowd gets my vote. I especially love one of their main goals, which was to only review films you like/care about. Then the articles are so much better that way.

BTW - I will mention Paul Schrader as being a personal favorite. His pan of Easy Rider took balls, his essay on film noir was great, and his book Transcendent Film Style... made my head spin. Man, this guy is for sure my favorite writer.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

#2
May 16, 2003, 01:18:29 PM
Quote from: SoNowThen

BTW - I will mention Paul Schrader as being a personal favorite. His pan of Easy Rider took balls, his essay on film noir was great, and his book Transcendent Film Style... made my head spin. Man, this guy is for sure my favorite writer.

Well, crap, I would've included him if I'd thought of it. He is obviously a brilliant writer, though I've never read any of his reviews/essays. I'll have to pick up the book you mentioned.

Maybe if McGuffin comes across this, he'll add Schrader and change your vote to that.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SHAFTR

#3
May 16, 2003, 01:23:48 PM
Sarris was the Forest and the Trees critic...correct?
My vote goes to the Cahiers because of their emphasis on the auteur and style.
"Talking shit about a pretty sunset
Blanketing opinions that i'll probably regret soon"

Mesh

#4
May 16, 2003, 01:30:30 PM
Went for Cahiers Crowd, as have most of us.

You know, for a guy who graduated with a degree in film studies, I've read awfully little from all three of them.

But I graduated in '98.  Maybe I'm just forgetting how much I actually did read from '95-'98.

godardian

#5
May 16, 2003, 01:34:46 PM
Quote from: SHAFTRSarris was the Forest and the Trees critic...correct?

Exactly.

They were all such wonderful, enthusiastic writers. But I voted for the Cahiers people for the same reason you did.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

#6
May 16, 2003, 01:48:51 PM
Quote from: godardian
Quote from: SoNowThen

BTW - I will mention Paul Schrader as being a personal favorite. His pan of Easy Rider took balls, his essay on film noir was great, and his book Transcendent Film Style... made my head spin. Man, this guy is for sure my favorite writer.

Well, crap, I would've included him if I'd thought of it. He is obviously a brilliant writer, though I've never read any of his reviews/essays. I'll have to pick up the book you mentioned.

Maybe if McGuffin comes across this, he'll add Schrader and change your vote to that.

Get "Schrader On Schrader" too. It's got all the important reviews & essays he did as well. But you can leave my vote on Cahiers, they did way more for cinema.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ShanghaiOrange

#7
May 16, 2003, 03:22:52 PM
Pauline Kael is a blackharted harpy of the night.
Last five films (theater)
-The Da Vinci Code: *
-Thank You For Smoking: ***
-Silent Hill: ***1/2 (high)
-Happy Together: ***1/2
-Slither: **

Last five films (video)
-Solaris: ***1/2
-Cobra Verde: ***1/2
-My Best Fiend: **1/2
-Days of Heaven: ****
-The Thin Red Line: ***

godardian

#8
May 16, 2003, 03:28:45 PM
Quote from: ShanghaiOrangePauline Kael is a blackharted harpy of the night.

...Warren Beatty? Is that you?!?!

So you voted for the Cahiers people, then...
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Cecil

#9
May 16, 2003, 07:06:29 PM
cahiers crowd, the fact that they actually made amazing films makes me curious about their opinion on other films.

meatwad

#10
May 17, 2003, 09:15:08 AM
Bogdonavich's essays are very well written.

Elvis Mitchell, the dude from the New York Times who hosts those director series' on IFC is not bad either, even though he is a bad interviewer, and looks like a member of Living Colour.




//www.thestate22.com

godardian

#11
May 17, 2003, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: MeatwadBogdonavich's essays are very well written.

Elvis Mitchell, the dude from the New York Times who hosts those director series' on IFC is not bad either, even though he is a bad interviewer, and looks like a member of Living Colour.




//www.thestate22.com

My favorite line from Hollywood Ending was, "No, I'm doing the commercial- they got Peter Bogdonavich to do the cable movie!" Still, I'd be interested in reading his essays.

I sort of like Elvis Mitchell, too. I know Kael liked him more than I do.

But.... were either of these people publishing film criticism in the sixties? I had to circumscribe this item somehow, so I limited the poll selections to that.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

#12
May 17, 2003, 12:41:26 PM
shouldnt a website exist that collects kaels work

i never really found one

godardian

#13
May 17, 2003, 12:47:28 PM
Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Loveshouldnt a website exist that collects kaels work

i never really found one

There should be, but a) the publisher makes more money from selling the books, and b) Kael has, in some ways, fallen out of favor. A lot of her books aren't even in print, I don't think.

My local critic- smug, lame-ass Brian Miller at The Seattle Weekly- is so anti-Kael, you get the feeling it's something personal. He never passes up a chance to gloat about how her critical legacy is "discredited" or "dead," two statements I think he'd actually have a hard time backing up. But there is definitely a strong anti-Kael sentiment out there amongst some.

Like I've said before, I really strongly disagree with some of her opinions, but oh, how I enjoy reading them.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

#14
May 17, 2003, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: godardian
Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Loveshouldnt a website exist that collects kaels work

i never really found one

There should be, but a) the publisher makes more money from selling the books, and b) Kael has, in some ways, fallen out of favor. A lot of her books aren't even in print, I don't think.

My local critic- smug, lame-ass Brian Miller at The Seattle Weekly- is so anti-Kael, you get the feeling it's something personal. He never passes up a chance to gloat about how her critical legacy is "discredited" or "dead," two statements I think he'd actually have a hard time backing up. But there is definitely a strong anti-Kael sentiment out there amongst some.

Like I've said before, I really strongly disagree with some of her opinions, but oh, how I enjoy reading them.

i would expect a fan to create the site and not the publisher.

i have the books. But i dunno you would think a proper website would be in order

i dunno, their is just so much cool stuff out there that is hard to get a hold of, like for example i heard that  Truffaut was a fan of saturday night fever and he wrote something about it ,  i would love to read his review on it .
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