Breaking Bad

[modage]

Further vindication...

I've seen different reactions to Walt's phone call to Skyler. Some say it was all a ploy to save her from prosecution; others says that it was real and he was railing at her. Does the debate surprise you?
Walley-Beckett: I personally feel like it wasn't open to interpretation. I would hope that people got that it was an absolute ploy on Walt's part. It is the family-man part of Walt playing the part of Heisenberg to exonerate Skyler. I was hoping that it would be clear that the process of the lie and the subterfuge would be clear and that viewers would be with Skyler in their understanding. When we first hear Walt, we think he's gone full Heisenberg. It's outrageous and horrible and abusive what he's saying! But then we start to put the pieces together as Skyler does, and I was hoping people would sort of be traveling that journey with her.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/rian-johnson-moira-walley-beckett-breaking-bad-ozymandius-interview.html

[Jeremy Blackman]

Yeah, I don't think that's up for debate. You can see it in her face pretty clearly when she catches on.

I think you can also feel Walt pushing himself further into that dark place, though. It may be an act, but he is venting some actual frustrations, and summoning genuine rage. Some of his lines are purposefully over the top ("stupid bitch"), but other parts he obviously believes. It's complex.

As for whether he continues to get darker or does something somewhat redemptive, I'm open to either possibility. I feel like the writers know much better than I do which is the better way to end things.

[Tictacbk]

I kind of wish there were no flash-forwards.  That ending, while knowing there's 2 episodes still left, would be the ultimate cliffhanger.

[©brad]

I believe Vince when he says last night's episode was the best of the series, but I wonder if it's also somewhat of a ploy to lower expectations for the finale? Surely they're not going out with a whimper.

[ono]

I want to see Walt shoot someone a la Mike, how Chow directed him by raising his surrendered hands.

I want to see Jesse poisoning Todd and crew by feigning confusion and then making phosphene gas.

Here's a question.  Skylar agreed to go along with Marie and agree to turn over the tape incriminating Hank.  Now that Walt is gone and Hank is dead, do you think she'll still do this?  Jesse's confession is still out there.  Wouldn't that incriminate Skylar?



*SPOILERS*  Charlie Rose is rumored to appear on the next episode.  This would imply some sort of interview with the family, maybe.  *END SPOILERS*



I disagree with Vince in that the show was the best of the series.  Earlier episodes this season have eclipsed it in my mind.  I think Confessions was better, for instance.

I would definitely be disappointed if Ozymandias was the finale.  It would be a cop out to leave those loose threads hanging, especially when Vince has said they will tie them all up.  So we can rest easily that someone will find Huell before he's withered away and replaced by some svelter black standup comedian.

[Jeremy Blackman]

You can watch the transformation happening. When Hank is shot and Walt falls to the sand, that is Walter White's death. The remainders of his humanity are expelled in that mournful wail. He collapses, drained, then rises as Heisenberg. Now he is a predator. He finds his prey, Jesse Pinkman, and just watches it for a while.

I don't buy this because he still goes home and tries to pack up his family afterwards. It crushes him that they won't go with him and he knows that there is no way after all the lies that Skylar will believe he did everything he could to try to stop Hank's death. When he looks down at Junior protecting Skylar, it crushes him to see them looking at him like he's a monster. He's spent the last few episodes doing incredibly selfless un-Heisenbergian things: giving up his money to attempt to save Hank, preparing to go to jail rather than have Hank killed, the entire phone call to Skylar and leaving Holly behind, etc. The Jesse thing is a specific Heisenbergian outburst because he blames Jesse for Hank's death and the whole mess because he broke the criminal code. He may still go full Heisenberg but he's pretty defeated now.

I don't know, there was a bit of hyperbole in there, but I feel like I should tentatively stand by that. I don't think all of his humanity was drained, but perhaps most of it. That felt like a real death/transformation moment.

The "selfless things" mostly happened before his fall to the sand. The phone call was fairly redemptive but was not entirely selfless, as I sort of described in my last post.

Returning Hollie was not exactly a gesture that deserves congratulation; he had just stolen her either as a hostage or simply to terrorize his family. It may have been impulsive, but so was killing Mike, for example. That's the point; Walt has these evil impulses. A normal person would not think to snatch the baby.

Walt's transformation has been like this for a while. Two steps forward and one step back... repeat. It feels wrong to jump to conclusions when he takes a step back.

Except with the way he treated Jesse, there was no step back. No hesitation, no flinching. Walt had already reacted to the betrayal; this went beyond that. Everything he did in that scene was predatory and evil. It felt like a significant push.

[polkablues]

This episode could not have been the finale in a way that would have been narratively satisfying. This was the Supreme Ordeal of Joseph Campbell's monomyth, what John Truby calls the Apparent Defeat. It's not a climax, it's not a resolution, it's a step on the path to those points, a symbolic death that leads to the protagonist's inevitable resurrection, now imbued with the wisdom to fulfill his true purpose.

A lot has been made of Gilligan's "Mr. Chips to Scarface" trajectory, but I would say that part of the arc has already been completed. Gilligan has no interest in taking the character to Scarface level and leaving him there, he's looking to take the character there and then force him to figure out how to get back. Walt is on the road to redemption, the only question is what specific form that takes, and what the ultimate cost to his soul proves to be.

[Fernando]

I think what he did to Jesse is the most hideous act he has committed so far, yes, in his mind he blames him for Hank's demise but to give him up like that and then hearing how he would be tortured to see how much he spilled, that was just cruel, and he added the stinking cherry on the pile of shit by telling him about Jane.

all the above hit me harder and by far than Hank's death.

still, part of me wishes the M60 is to save Jesse but realistically it doesn't seem like it. question is, can he grow a conscience and do it? or the M60 is to fight the Nazis and maybe along the way he can save him, but there is no way he can kill them all by himself.

anyway, can't wait to see what is his master plan to end everyone and everything.


only two left 

[Jeremy Blackman]

A lot has been made of Gilligan's "Mr. Chips to Scarface" trajectory, but I would say that part of the arc has already been completed. Gilligan has no interest in taking the character to Scarface level and leaving him there, he's looking to take the character there and then force him to figure out how to get back. Walt is on the road to redemption...

I'm skeptical, perhaps because I don't want it to be true. Could they really execute that in a satisfying way? If they can, I guess I'm open to it, but that's a tall order with two episodes left. It's just not ringing true to me right now.

I can see something like this happening: Walt takes revenge on the Nazis, accidentally freeing Jesse, which inspires a flash of humanity. Something fleeting but meaningful. But "redemption"? That would be an odd choice.

And a "road to redemption" of any kind seems too cheesy for this show. I don't think the writers are interested in that. They are interested in leaving wreckage. They're interested in illustrating how catastrophic Walt's original decision was to "break bad." They might even be interested in punishing Walt further. I guess we'll see.

Mostly, I hope it stays dark. This is no time to pull back.

[03]

im sure someone else might have thought about this already: but the pants during the 'dung beetle' sequence are the two trunkless legs of stone, from the poem.

[modage]

A lot has been made of Gilligan's "Mr. Chips to Scarface" trajectory, but I would say that part of the arc has already been completed. Gilligan has no interest in taking the character to Scarface level and leaving him there, he's looking to take the character there and then force him to figure out how to get back. Walt is on the road to redemption, the only question is what specific form that takes, and what the ultimate cost to his soul proves to be.

I think we may still get the "full Scarface" moment with the M60 and whoever he's using it against. His inner-Heisenberg was definitely awakened this Season in the Jesse/Jane moment. But I also believe they're going to offer Walt another "victory" facing off against a worse evil Madrigal/Nazis/Lydia, etc. But at the end of the day he'll still have to sacrifice himself to make it happen. Remember Gilligan saying he saw the end as "some kind of victory for Walt."

[mogwai]

The cold open was the last scene ever filmed.

Yeah, unless they cgi'd the fuck out of Cranston's beard and hair.

[Lottery]

The cold open was the last scene ever filmed.

Yeah, unless they cgi'd the fuck out of Cranston's beard and hair.

Executive Producer David Fincher.

[Neil]

I think mod is right.  I don't like it, but it seems like Walt must die.  After all, an important element to both Scarface films is that the protagonist goes down with guns blasting because of what he started and what he became.  I think that Walt's fate will be the same. There is no Redemption in the traditional sense, because he's wrecked too many lives.  At this point we just want those who are in the war path of his Heisenburg's craziness

Regarding what Polkablues said, I don't think there is a way back for Walt, he's passed the point of no return, and that was Hank's death. I think this is the ultimate frustration that he has with Jesse, He can't cover that up, he has to answer to Marie, not to mention the fact that Jesse got involved with Walt's family, which endangers them, blah blah. I don't think Walt's resentment comes from the fact that he's a "rat," as so many people are quick call him.  So, i don't really see that as the arc.  Walt must right what he has wronged, which means his redemption will prove him to be a family man. Which is the, "some kind of victory," he will receive. 

At first I didn't think I was going to like the episode because it felt kinda jumpy.  But with that said, I loved it, it had some of the best and most defining moments in the show. I actually thought for a second, "oh my god, is someone going to die during this knife struggle and me not like this show any more?"  But, it was still intense.

hank's death was damn cold, and it got to me.  I can't believe how he barely even looked at Walt. Wow. That whole scene had me on edge. Even though I knew deep down he had to die. I don't really understand the arguments against how the show played his death. To me, that was one of the most brilliant endings of all time.  The dramatic part was them opening fire with Walt screaming, " NOOOOO!" I mean DO WE NEED to spell it out for you folks what happens when two guys are outnumbered and outgunned?


I also can't wait to see what Jesse's plan is going to be. Maybe he blows him and Todd up, like the cold open in the RV with the Cigarette suggests, or maybe as others have suggested he poisons them.  Either way, this might be the greatest television experience of my life.

Pubrick, I think you're onto something there.  That's some spot on shit right there.  Also, on the side note, shame on me for thinking those pants were just some old meaningless desert trash.

[polkablues]

Walt will die in the final episode. That's a stone-cold lock. He's gone too far and destroyed too many lives and hurt the people he loves too much. The only satisfying conclusion, to the audience or the character, is for him to make the ultimate sacrifice. His ego and his selfishness drove him to where he is now, and any measure of redemption will require the selfless act of sacrificing his life in the service of others. There is no victory left for Walt in life, only in death.