Kill Bill: Volume Two

[Jake_82]

**spoilers**

The eyeball part was awesome.  Especially when the entire audience simultaniously jumps and gasps and then goes "Ewwww"!!

I was in a really great audience on Friday when I saw this-- There was a line from the front of the door that was two blocks long, and tickets were sold out by the time I got there so I had to buy a ticket for "The Girl Next Door" just to get in. Anyway, when Beatrice pulled out Elle's eye the entire audience started clapping and everyone there was really excited to be watching the movie.

I wonder if anyone can tell me about the alternate versions of Volume II-- I know in Volume I the fight with the Crazy 88s is colorized in certain asian prints of the film, and that the Japanese version also includes several extra minutes of footage throughout, and that Tarantino et al refuse to discuss exactly what the variations between the different versions are (supposedly there are more than just the American and Japanese versions, I've read he created different cuts for several other countries); but I'm wondering what the changes in Volume II are.

There have been rumors about an entire alternate chapter about the story of some guy or something (pardon my skimpiness on the details) and possibly an anime sequence in certain versions. There was also a sequence giving some backstory on Bill of which some short clips were included in a few of the trailers that was cut out of in favor of the current method of introducing Bill in the scene where he plays the flute outside the chapel.

On the Kill Bill vol. 2 imdb board (I know, not exactly an accurate source, but what was said was intriguing nonetheless) someone claimed that in the asian version of vol. 2, the final confrontation with Bill was show differently... that they actually went to the moonlit beach that was only mentioned in the american cut and had a full-on sword fight. Normally I would disregard that type of rumor since it seems so radically different from the way it was pulled off in America, but it's interesting... I know I read somewhere that David Carradine was accidentally sliced by Uma Thurman in the "final fight scene" and he kept on fighting on screen without flinching since he was so used to that sort of injury after being in Kung Fu and shit... but they didn't really have a "final fight" in the American version except for a few seconds of sword action sitting in chairs.

Tarantino says he cut Kill Bill for different regions based on what he thinks that region would respond best to. Maybe he thought Americans would respond better to a slightly more emotional climax by having Beatrice and Bill sit down and go through some degree of reconciliation before she does what she has to do, rather than having them duke it out. I don't know... it's all pretty much speculation at this point, since there's no way to find out what the variations in different versions are, but I hope we get to see the cut out/changed scenes on some DVD at some point in one of the million DVD releases that are going to result from the two movies.

And yeah, it's pretty lame of me to be unsatisfied with the confrontation with Bill since the rest of the movie was so outstanding, but I was a little disappointed that the moment for which the movie was named was rather anticlimatic (in terms of action, at least), so I'm hoping there's an alternate version we'll get to see at some point.

[Alethia]

the fight on the beach was in the script, but was never shot as far as i know

SPOILERS

and the fight on the beach wasnt a big fight either, he just came at her and she blocked his blow, then did the five point palm exploding heart technique as in the film...and the only difference from there in the script is that it says you hear his heart explode (its described as a sound similar to a tire blowout)...

[SoNowThen]

I just saw it. Spoilers ensue.

I can't believe you guys

A. love it
B. think Carradine was any good


This was the biggest let-down of my life, besides PDL. I feel like crying right now. Cos it's a nice long 3+ years until I get to see a new QT movie now, and this is what I have to keep me company. Moments of brilliance, yes, of course. But lots of useless chatter. Chatter that, besides the strip club firing and the Superman speech, was totally BORING. And with the exception of the goofy rack zooms, where was the fucking style? Wasn't this supposed to be an excercise in style? We come to the end of an almost 5 hour epic, and instead of a great final fight, I get a mom hugging her kid? What fucking shit is this?!!!

 nor    nor    can accurately describe how raped I feel right now.

[Ghostboy]

SPOILERS

instead of a great final fight, I get a mom hugging her kid?

That's precisely why I loved it. Here's my review's rough draft:

The first volume of the single film that is 'Kill Bill' ended on a note of pure narrative momentum, and now, like  a reader who set down a great novel to prolong the arrival at the end, we come to part two to find the momentum briefly picked up in an introductory sequence and then ground to a sudden and jarring halt. Quentin Tarantino deposits us in El Paso, Texas, before the events of the first film, and lets us pay witness to the massacre of his and Uma Thurman's character, the Bride, and her wedding party. Or rather: we meet the wedding party, as they rehearse the walk down the aisle; and we finally meet Bill (David Carradine), who makes a surprise appearance, and see him display a tenderness for the Bride that is not necessarily a facade; and then, when the massacre that we've already seen the aftermath to occurs, Tarantino moves his camera outside and lets the audience put two and two together.

Gone is the giddy carnage and buckets of merrily spilt blood that marked the first film; the death toll in this episode is exponentially less, and the action is less graphic but more violent. When the plot picks up, the Bride has only two opponents left before she reaches Bill -- Budd (Michael Madsen) and Elle (Darryl Hannah) -- and when you consider that these last acts of vengeance are spread out over nearly two and half hours, you get an idea of what Tarantino is going for here; these aren't action figures that are being killed anymore, but people, and these people talk. A lot.

Yes, that the dialogue takes precedence here has a lot do with the advanced character development. But consider the less obvious points, such as the fact that the Bride, it turns out, does have a name; until a certain point in this film, every utterance of her name has been bleeped out, to rather comical effect. Audiences may be expecting some twist, some big joke, upon its revalation, but no, her name is revealed with little fanfare, and perhaps it may slip over some heads that the point of it all is simply that she has a name. In the first volume, she was simply the Bride, an unstoppable spirit of inhuman vengeance. In this one, it turns out she's that, but she's also just a girl with a name that made kids laugh at her in school. She's a person.

The first two acts of Volume Two concern the dispatchment of Budd and Elle, the two remaining members of the Deadly Viper Assasination Squad. The Bride's methodical execution style fails her here, allowing Tarantino to shake things up and let the structure become messy, less predictable. Much time is spent with Budd, who we learn is Bill's brother, and who still has an iota of honor in his slovenly heart. He has a few colorful conversations, with his boss at a titty bar and with a bizarre little gravedigger, that are the type of scenes that would surely have been cut had the two volumes of the film been combined initially. Their presence here, so out of the blue and technically unnecessary to the plot, color the characters and mark the film as Tarantino's; there are a few things he loves more than to stop the action and listen to his characters speak his dialogue. He's one of those auteurs who can get away with it.

The Bride spends some time underground, where she's supposed to be asphyxiating in an early grave, and this gives Tarantino the opportunity to indulge in his other favorite sport: homage. Being buried alive leads up to a moment that has Mario Bava and Lucio Fulci written all over it, but before that there is an extended flashback to China, where Bill takes the Bride to be trained in martial arts under the ancient master Pai Mei. The whole sequence is an ode to Shaw Brothers kung fu films, the kind shot on grainy reversal stock with lots of awkward zooms and slightly imperfect dubbing.

Because he revels in these odes to the movies he loves, Tarantino's critics deride him unoriginality; they're mistaking love for theft. If Tarantino was truly simply lifting material, the Pai Mei material would have been tacked on, existing for the sake of reference alone; as it is, the derivative style is simply a finishing touch to a sequence that comes at a necessary point in the story to keep things moving forward.

The final conflict with Bill follows the pattern set by the rest of the movie; his confrontation with the Bride is a drawn out conversation, and while the outcome of their discussion is as it must be -- because this is, after all, a revenge film -- there is no satisfaction to be found in it. The characters in the films that inspired Tarantino to make this one follow a strict code; the characters he's written for this film end up unsure as to whether that code is effective, and their adherence to it is full of regret. Add to this the twist that was so effectively revealed in the last line of the first volume and we're left with an outcome that is almost subversive in its emotional effectiveness.

After you see Volume 2, imagine watching both it and the first volume back to back, as they were intended; imagine the effect the paradigm shift of the second half would have after the nonstop rush of the first. Just as he did with 'Pulp Fiction,' he's turned B movie material into a transcendent and startlingly original piece of cinema. It's a truly bizarre fugue: think about where the film starts out and where it ends up, and realize that this is a story you've never seen, and never would have imagined you'd see.

And because I'm certain I'll never see a film like this again, I'd like to take a moment here to rhapsodize about my personal favorite moments in this volume: the meeting of Bill and the Bride outside the church; the flashback to her pregnancy test; and her final scene on the bathroom floor, at the end of the movie. I think of these scenes, and marvel at this character Uma and Quentin have created, and how much, over the course of this story, I've grown to care about her, and how happy I am that she ends up where she ends up.

[SoNowThen]

I would never be one to call him "unoriginal", cos people who cry to that wolf are fucking unoriginal. I could care less how many shots/movies/whatever he rips off (nice to see The Vanishing here, btw). What I do care about is that when you have a cool movie that's supposed to be a style-fest, and you make a bunch of 2-D characters who are not interesting beyond their appearance and occupations, what good is it to have them talk and talk and talk? They have NOTHING to say. It transcended nothing for me, because it is a film about nothing. In the first one, the mindless gore transcended the B-movie fare it came from to be brilliance. That's why I loved it. In this one, I don't give a shit if the characters are happy or sad or whatever. I came to see bloody revenge. Jackie Brown characters I could sit with and talk for hours, there's a depth there. Here, it felt like a fake depth was tacked on, what with the endless explanantion of back-stories and motivations and all that other shit I hate. Obviously his intention was to make a much different second part than I wanted. It didn't work for me. Maybe I'll have to see them together as one movie, but I'm really not sure I even want to see part two again...


I say this all with a fierce and bitter jealousy that this movie worked so well for you. I really wish it did for me.

[Alethia]

worked perfectly for me.  sonowthen, you should at least see it one more time, you may like it much more second go.

[modage]

sonowthen, although i really liked the movie i can feel where you are coming from on this.  i'm actually surprised the movie is getting as much undivided love this time around on here considering what a difficult film i found it to be.  the whole thing is a sucker punch, and i think the biggest mistake was splitting the two parts up because take any great film and try to imagine splitting it down the middle into two seperate films that work.  i dont care how long it is, they're not going to work.  because it was structured as one film, and because the way he structures his scripts, splitting them up makes for (possibly) two unsatisfactory experiences.  half the people who hated the non-stop action and no depth of the first part and the other half who were expecting more of that in the second and it doesnt deliver.  so, i'm shocked as many people are accepting the film so grandly, (from the guy with the avatar, right?) but i dont think it was a home run for QT.  i dont think it was a flawless film.  even with what he was trying to accomplish with the story, some of the moments just dont quite play for me.  his other films, i dont have that problem.  i'm going to try to see it again this week and watch the first part DIRECTLY before i leave for theater.  i still think when they edit this thing together, it could be fantastic.

[nix]

I think they work okay as two seperate parts, but ultimately I agree. As one movie (which is how I try to think of it), it's a masterpiece. I don't want anything cut or rearanged (except maybe lop off the little "preview" at the end of volume 1 and the little recap at the begining of volume 2). Just put them together. I can't wait until I can see it like that.

[Kal]

I liked it.

The thing is... I just came back from the theatre and its late... and I need to think a little bit more about the whole thing...

I saw Volume 1 again yesterday so that I was prepared for this, and I have to say I still wasnt... mainly because I wasnt thinking that I was seeing a film by this crazy son of a bitch Tarantino... and I thought it would be a simple continuation of Volume 1... LOTR style.

Volume 1 and 2 are two completely different films, and they should have different names... I guess it would have been edited different if they would have kept the original 1 film thing...

But where the fuck was the notebook with all the names that she has in Volume 1 and shows it around like 4 times?

Overall I liked the film... and Uma was sensational... There are scenes that were excellent... so I cant complain much... I'm just gonna shut up now...

[aerokong]

I thought it boring, frivolous and offending. Even more than Kill Bill 1. At least there we had some incredible action sequences and virtuous editing.
Point to the editor, of course.

What was all that "hitman morale" this guy was trying to build? Does he really think he is deep in any sense?

Where is the story...

I will have to think that Quentin Tarantino most developed character is Quentin Tarantino and that it took all his "character development" energy.

A movie that says "I am so bright, audiences are so stupid, they swallow everything I put on screen just because it is me doing it"

"Come, leave your money, go home a little more stupid and confused"

The lioness has her cub, we have your dollars, you have nothing but think you got something.

[Weak2ndAct]

So... yeah, I saw volume 2.  I think it works spendidly, and should not be considered a seperate entity (curse you, Miramax!).  To make comparisons between which movie is better is ultimately pointless.  It is one work and should be considered as so... Yeah, it sucks you gotta pay for 2 movies w/ a 6 month intermission, but I'd rather get this 'unabridged version' than a 3 hour cut that was hacked to pieces.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I felt the movie moved pretty fast (and despite me reading the screenplay and knowing what was coming, might I add).  I loved the scenes w/ Budd, it was nice to see someone get the upper hand on the Bride-- and by the most downtrodden one of the bunch!  And the Elle scenes... I won't even try to praise them, my words wouldn't do them justice.

I guess what I loved most about the flick is how it subverted expectations... that two of the members of the death list were not actually killed by the Bride, and that Bill's death was almost anti-climatic (and I for one, was sad to see him go).  

I've heard a lot of people whine that the backstory is scant, and that we should have seen Uma and the gang 'in action,' but that would have been a colossal mistake.  Who cares how they disposed of people in the past?  This is a story of revenge and retribution.  

By no means will I say that Kill Bill is a perfect work.  It's not.  I have my complaints.  But when they're as petty as why Budd didn't get a freeze frame and title card, or whether or not the reveal of the Beatrix-moniker works, man, that's some seriously petty shit in the grand scheme of things.

[Ghostboy]

The scene in the school, when her name is revealed, struck me as very PTA-ish, for some reason.

[Alethia]

me too....i think i'm the only one that liked it, too lol  everyone else was like what the fuck?

[A Matter Of Chance]

I thought that was a great scene

[Jake_82]

About the name reveal scene and also the character development-- I disagree with people who say that none of the characters were developed and there's no reason to care about anyone in the movie... I think that's to some extent true for Volume I, but Volume II was all about developing those characters.

At first the name reveal at that moment of the film seemed really random, but I think it was well placed now... we've just come off watching this long flashback about Pei Mei and we now have a greater understanding of Beatrice's character... it's like now she has an identity more concrete than this unstoppable killing machine simply called The Bride in Volume I-- and it's at that moment that her name is revealed to the audienceand she becomes more relatable to the audience.