Redbelt

[JG]

yeah i liked it too. plots just aren't like this any more, unraveling with such economy, the whole movie like a chain-reaction. dude's a storyteller. there's definitely weak moments in this, but mamet makes it hard to resist a lot of the twists and turns. and ejifor is so fantastic. he has really done a great job in the past few movies i've seen him in. he's my new favorite unsung hero.

[samsong]

several films lately that are influenced by Pickpocket.  or maybe they're just connections i'm making in my head that aren't actually there.
redbelt's a strong film.  i haven't seen too much mamet but he shows a lot of restraint, most definitely a good thing.  for once his concerns seem to lie more with emotions and lucidity of theme than cadence-and-rhythm-only dialogue and the element of surprise.  some lazy/convenient plotting but a "mainstream" film his austere is hard to come by, and so i forgive and go along--the ending is at once ridiculous and poignant.  chitwetel ejiofor is excellent, but when isn't he?

[pete]

I was thinking about this movie, in relations to The Wire and Burn Notice.  Three very different things that I've been bringing up lately. 
I think we need more movies and shows where the writers simply know more than the viewers.  One way of making your film universal is by creating characters and scenarios common enough that they resonate with everyone.  But another way is to create an exotic world that is interesting enough that anyone with any bit of curiosity would want to enter it.  Redbelt is certainly authoritative with its facts, and that is actually very very fun for the people.  Who wouldn't want to feel smart after watching something?  I'm sure most writers want to coast on the strength of more basic things, like characters and universal struggles, but there's something cheap about reducing every bit of knowledge into a moral lesson.  Redbelt does not state "Life is like martial arts", but finds a specific world, explains its mechanisms clearly to the audience, and then claims "martial arts is like life".  Reality series and documentaries have had more luck recently, but in the movies, even sports films limit the audience's views these days.  You have dance movies that look exactly like boxing movies, racing films that are like kung-fu movies, martial arts movies that are like high school coming of age dramas, and writers who've read five articles on one thing are just plugging in the same characters and plot into all sorts of different disciplines.  The characters are always entering an exotic world either to raise money for a dying relative/ community center or for a girl or worse, FOR REVENGE.  Where are the audience members supposed to escape to?  The Japanese have had better luck, with cooking films like Tampopo or the tango movie Shall We Dance or my favorite film of all time Ping Pong, films that let details of certain crafts dominate the drama, and trust the audience will find drama in the details.
And you know, I'm not talking about art films either, I'm talking about the mainstream films for the studio demographic.

[Pozer]

sometimes Mamet's writing is just awful isn't it?

[Pas]

I blind bought this months ago and just watched it for the first time. It's pretty good, though I think it's even less realistic than Rocky. Seriously the way people act in this film has no base in reality, and the portrayal of MMA is not just either.

The big fight is on PPV and it looks like a big deal, and it's ''obviously fixed'' according to the promoters. I would be surprised if fixing in UFC and Pride was prevalent. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I wouldn't say it's the ''new WWF''

Also can anyone explain to me why Tim Allen's wife lied to Mike's wife about the fabric ??? Also is Tim Allen involved in some conspiracy ? What is the conspiracy, why do they do all this to Mike??

I actually don't think I understood the plot 

[Stefen]

Are you an MMA fan, Pas? I am. Have been for the last 10 years. It's the one meathead thing I allow myself (unless you count Girl Gone Wild type pornography)

There were tons of works in PRIDE. Coleman Vs Takada comes to mind. And UFC, too. I'm positive Shamrock Vs Franklin was a work. More in PRIDE than UFC, but yeah, they weren't very prevalent.

[Pas]

Are you an MMA fan, Pas? I am. Have been for the last 10 years. It's the one meathead thing I allow myself (unless you count Girl Gone Wild type pornography)

There were tons of works in PRIDE. Coleman Vs Takada comes to mind. And UFC, too. I'm positive Shamrock Vs Franklin was a work. More in PRIDE than UFC, but yeah, they weren't very prevalent.

I'm not a connaisseur but I like it a lot, especially since Georges St-Pierre is from my part of the world and he's very sympathetic. (lol at the GGW comment. After our anti-gaping dicussion, I now reckon we have compatible porn tastes. For what it's worth  )

I just watched the Coleman vs Takada fight on Youtube. Too funny, the commentators really see right through it and they almost call him out.

I didn't know about that ! Doesn't seem to happen anymore really though, right ?

[Stefen]

It doesn't need to happen. UFC just sets their matchmaking up to where the guy they want to win, will.

You came late, buddy. MMA is dead. It died the second UFC bought PRIDE and disbanded it. Sorry.

Now the only thing there is is UFC and that's basically Fast and Furious in WWE form. It's so corny now. It's not about who's the best, it's just about who's the most marketable.

GSP's the man, but UFC makes him fight so often and every time it's against guys he could lose to (even though he never does) meanwhile other guys like Brock Lesnar get the easiest path possible just because they were in WWE, appeal to inbred rednecks and can talk trash. It's pathetic.

[pete]

spoilers


I dunno how "less realistic" it is - it seems like good knowledge to me.  it really understands how a dojo is run, and what kind of people go in to train there.  it understands the movie business.  and it seems to understand how a fight is put together.  the "fixed" fight isn't done a la WWE, but, like stefen said, through pitting fighter against a vastly weaker one.

[Gold Trumpet]

The main complaints I get about Mamet is with his dialogue and acting. It's a stylistic choice by Mamet to make his films carry over his theatrical language to films. To some people it's foreign. Rocky (for good or bad) set the tone with these movies by having a naturalistic approach to the story. Now people always believe that the closer you to the docu drama verbage of these characters (as if they really existed), the closer you get to the heart of the story, but Mamet will always be a creature of theater. His films will always have these intangibles. It's not necessarily bad because other filmmakers skirted easy realism to uphold certain stylistic beliefs. Considering Mamet gets a lot of the philosophy of fighting right, I think it's fine.

I like Redbelt, but I also like the worlds Mamet inhabits. Every ounce of his stories usually intrigue me on some level, but the one thing about Redbelt that did bug me is how much the plot consumed every scene and every character. I don't think it allowed for the characters and scenes to breathe very much. By the end of the film I kept thinking about each scene in relationship to the clockwork movements of the plot. It's a conscious decision and has hallmarks to very old theater, but in the end I think it limited a lot of the characters. Mike may be one of my favorite Mamet characters ever, but I always wanted more exposition with him. I wanted more nuance and detail about who he is, but too much was about him and the plot. It became restricting to me.

That's my main complaint. The rest of the film is fascinating so overall a recommendation.

[Pas]

Well the lesser realism to me was more at the event in the end where they allow the champion and Mike to fight and the japanese guy comes around and gives him the 250k belt. Wtf really

Also since you seem to like it a lot I guess you can shed light on why Tim Allen's wife lied to Mike's wife about the fabric ??? Why are the lines disconnected the next day ? Also is Tim Allen involved in some conspiracy ? What is the conspiracy, why was Mike a target ? Did Tim Allen go to the bar on purpose to get beat up to trap Mike ? I'm really confused.

I did like the film though 

[Gold Trumpet]

Well the lesser realism to me was more at the event in the end where they allow the champion and Mike to fight and the japanese guy comes around and gives him the 250k belt. Wtf really

The implication is that the Japanese faction were in the same place as Mike and decided (in their own ways) to revolt against the event and present their belt to Mike because he openly defied the powers to be. Thus they honored Mike with their representative belt. Mike displayed the honor that the belt was worth. It's loose drama because there should have been a better a backstory to their organization if Mamet wanted to make it a part of the story.

Also since you seem to like it a lot I guess you can shed light on why Tim Allen's wife lied to Mike's wife about the fabric ??? Why are the lines disconnected the next day ? Also is Tim Allen involved in some conspiracy ? What is the conspiracy, why was Mike a target ? Did Tim Allen go to the bar on purpose to get beat up to trap Mike ? I'm really confused.

In reverse order, Tim Allen went to the bar to just enjoy a drink. Nothing more. Mike's involvement was coincidence. Mike became the target when he had something to give Tim Allen's people in the idea for the MMA match that would allow them (the promoters) to control matches. Tim Allen isn't really involved in the conspiracy, so much. It's more the people he associates with because they were promoters of the MMA event. The phone line was disconnected the next day because the promoters knew that if they got Mike and his wife in a vulnerable spot they would be more willing to sign off on some easy agreement that would get them in their pockets and thus attain control of Mike's idea. Disconnecting the line was smart because it was just a verbal agreement and the promoters (including the wife) had full deniability and there was nothing but Mike and his wife's word to say they were lying.

[Pas]

got it thanks a lot mate !!!

[SiliasRuby]

Just saw this over a week ago and forgot to put my thoughts. Quite an exquisite film and I guess that isn't saying much from a mamet freak. It wasn't typical in any way other than the progression of the story. I am always surprised on how mamet is going to top himself and he's still got it as the years pass. Although I realize why Tim Allen's role was so small I really wanted more of him. I watched all the mamet I had in my library recently and I'm having withdrawls. Anyway, still need to see 'Homicide', 'The Winslow Boy', and things change of the films he's directed.