Author Topic: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)  (Read 65153 times)

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The Red Vine

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2007, 11:16:38 PM »
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Film critic David Poland also had some very negative comments in his review of the movie, claiming it was a fascinating mess. I've read minor complaints in other reviews. They're only encouraging my interest in the movie.
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ponceludon

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 12:25:44 AM »
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I meant of people on this website rather than of all the people who've seen the movie.

Sal

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2007, 11:21:56 AM »
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I thought that Paul and Eli were the same person until the very end of the movie

Don't you agree that's a huge miscalculation on the part of PTA? I can't believe something like that would even happen. I'll be seeing the film again obviously, and I'm sure that will be clearer, but basically the entire audience was just scratching their heads at this. It's a major blow in my opinion. It's one of the main reasons I will never call this film a masterpiece.

B.C. Long

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2007, 04:45:32 PM »
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Wasn't it rather obvious when Daniel is introduced to Eli and Eli doesn't recognize him? I prefer this subtext rather than seeing both on screen and going "LOOK THEY'RE TWINS!!! GASP!!!"

Pozer

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 06:32:02 PM »
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I thought that Paul and Eli were the same person until the very end of the movie

Don't you agree that's a huge miscalculation on the part of PTA?

my answer is NO.  it is supposed to be a bit of a WTF?  that's what i LOVE about it.  that shot of plainview first meeting eli:  he gives a WTF look to HW.  it got a laugh at the SF screening and did confuse me at first, but realized later 'oooh, theyre twins'  and it was good that way. 

you know where this comes from right?  paul was cast as paul sunday, they shot the scenes of him telling daniel aboot the oil on the sunday farm, original eli actor was a wuss, they replaced original wuss eli actor with paul and made the characters twinzies.  strangelove sellers style.   

i have read about this and read the script only AFTER i saw the movie and feel he CHOSE the way that it is in the film - it wasnt a miscalculation.   in the script they are bros - not twins, but in the end paul sunday comes back only cuz eli is gone etc.  obviously cut this to make it a bit mysterious.   I love the way it is

it was no doubt a decision to make you scratch your noggin over it, but ill investigate to see if others feel like you did when i see this MASTERPIECE again tomorrow.

Sal

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2007, 06:52:23 PM »
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Wasn't it rather obvious when Daniel is introduced to Eli and Eli doesn't recognize him? I prefer this subtext rather than seeing both on screen and going "LOOK THEY'RE TWINS!!! GASP!!!"

Not really, because I wasn't sure that it wasn't Paul pretending to be an "Eli" in order to conceal something from his own family about what he was doing. i certainly could not be convinced they were two people based on Paul Dano's performance. I think the blame falls a little on Dano and mostly on Paul for doing something gimmicky and unwarranted that confused a lot of people.

ponceludon

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2007, 08:41:36 PM »
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I thought that Paul and Eli were the same person until the very end of the movie

Don't you agree that's a huge miscalculation on the part of PTA?

my answer is NO.  it is supposed to be a bit of a WTF?  that's what i LOVE about it.  that shot of plainview first meeting eli:  he gives a WTF look to HW.  it got a laugh at the SF screening and did confuse me at first, but realized later 'oooh, theyre twins'  and it was good that way. 

you know where this comes from right?  paul was cast as paul sunday, they shot the scenes of him telling daniel aboot the oil on the sunday farm, original eli actor was a wuss, they replaced original wuss eli actor with paul and made the characters twinzies.  strangelove sellers style.   

i have read about this and read the script only AFTER i saw the movie and feel he CHOSE the way that it is in the film - it wasnt a miscalculation.   in the script they are bros - not twins, but in the end paul sunday comes back only cuz eli is gone etc.  obviously cut this to make it a bit mysterious.   I love the way it is

it was no doubt a decision to make you scratch your noggin over it, but ill investigate to see if others feel like you did when i see this MASTERPIECE again tomorrow.

I didn't read the script or the book beforehand, so I had no idea that they were two people. When Eli didn't "recognize" Plainview, I didn't think "AH, it must be a different brother!" I thought, "Oh, maybe he's going to screw this guy over or make it very painful for him to have come so far out on a false lead." However, there didn't necessarily have to be a scene in which the twins are side by side, but a word or two of clarification would have been nice.

By the end of the movie, I did realize they were probably twins, but I don't necessarily think that PT Anderwson dropped the ball on that entirely. I wouldn't call it a huge miscalculation, because in the end, it wasn't that pivotal to the movie. Clearly, the entire character of Paul exists as a catalyst to get the film going. I don't know why he had to be played by Paul Dano as well, since they could have easily gotten another actor for those 5 minutes he's in it.

I am not such a fan of big obvious scenes, or scenes that exist only to make something obvious, but I think he could have worked in something. The only reason that bothered me in the slightest is that in expecting the old switcheroo between Paul and Eli, I was expecting a different kind of movie than it was. While it is not necessarily Anderson's style to include something that flashy, this film was so different that it didn't seem unlikely. I liked it a lot as a whole, but that was just a slight bit of confusion.

Sal

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2007, 10:48:54 PM »
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I didn't read the script or the book beforehand, so I had no idea that they were two people. When Eli didn't "recognize" Plainview, I didn't think "AH, it must be a different brother!" I thought, "Oh, maybe he's going to screw this guy over or make it very painful for him to have come so far out on a false lead."

That's exactly right. And if you reflect on it after seeing the film you almost wish this was the path PT had taken with the story. It's more interesting and a bit more complicated.

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I wouldn't call it a huge miscalculation, because in the end, it wasn't that pivotal to the movie. Clearly, the entire character of Paul exists as a catalyst to get the film going. I don't know why he had to be played by Paul Dano as well, since they could have easily gotten another actor for those 5 minutes he's in it.

I feel the only explanation is PT tends to get gimmicky. He saw this as an opening, obviously thought it would pay off, but I don't think that approach was worth the confusion it caused so many people.

B.C. Long

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2007, 12:54:31 AM »
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Does no one remember the dinner scene when Eli beats up his father and he's ranting about his other brother Paul? I thought that scene made it pretty clear if it wasn't before.

Also Sal, about Greenwood's score, what exactly is it derivative of because I'd definitely like to hear those works. And besides isn't pretty much all Movie scores derivative of some classical composition. For example, lots of Antonín Dvořák can be found in the works of John William's movie scores. So I guess his stuff is derivative as well.

Sal

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2007, 02:24:03 PM »
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Does no one remember the dinner scene when Eli beats up his father and he's ranting about his other brother Paul? I thought that scene made it pretty clear if it wasn't before.

No at the time, I didn't put it together. I just thought, this scene does not feel like it was motivated at all. In retrospect I got it but was still ambivalent if that even worked dramatically. Aside from this one outburst I never got a sense that one of the brothers hated the father or hated the other brother. You need that if you want to create real characters. What PT did was he just ignored their relationship and focused on Daniel. Nothing wrong with that, but let's for a minute consider Occam's razor and cut out the things you don't need. In the Q&A paul talked about going "simple" for this project. The paul/eli relationship is not simple and really flies in the face of what paul was talking about.

After looking at the imdb boards, lots of people are considering he had a split personality. This makes more sense to me. But that's still inconclusive. This is the kind of ambiguity I would expect from a lesser filmmaker.

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Also Sal, about Greenwood's score, what exactly is it derivative of because I'd definitely like to hear those works. And besides isn't pretty much all Movie scores derivative of some classical composition. For example, lots of Antonín Dvořák can be found in the works of John William's movie scores. So I guess his stuff is derivative as well.

My immediate reaction to his score was "The Shining". But without any consideration for hitting dramatic moments. It felt laid over so some moments just didn't make sense in the context of the music. I know that creates tension and it makes you uneasy, but so did the score in PDL which paul handled much more deliberately. I've always admired the relationship between his picture and his sound, and the score did nothing for me here.

SiliasRuby

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2007, 01:46:01 AM »
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Oh my god. this was fucking awesome. Alright, I'll calm down. I'm sorry but ya, great great shit. Saw it with Mac and Omero. Pozer showed up late or didn't show up at all. Not sure. Anyway, I'm sorry guys but I'm a bit tired. I'll write more tomorrow after work when I'm really not fading into sleep. There was much fun between the three of us though. Hopefully mac will post some memorable moments of the three of us waiting outside.
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MacGuffin

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2007, 06:48:51 PM »
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Here's my take on the whole twin aspect:

Even if it wasn't planned, it added a whole other interesting dynamic to the story. Daniel encounters two sets of twins - Eli and Paul, and the two Henrys, and both sets play with image of the identical nature. Paul and true Henry are the real thing, in fact half-brother Henry, as it's found out, dies an honest death. Eli and the Henry in the flesh are both imposters; one of a Martin Guerre swap and the other a false prophet. And what becomes of them? Daniel kills them both. For Daniel and these two men are both two sides of the same coin; it's as if Daniel is looking at mirror images of himself. Duality plays a big theme in the film.
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Satcho9

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2007, 08:25:31 PM »
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Also, big big Kudos goes to Paul for casting James Downey as the (my apologies for not knowing the character name) guy who scouts the tracts of land and prices for Daniel Plainview. You may remember him from SNL...he was (don't know if he still is) The  lead political writer on SNL since way back when and is responsible for some genius work over the years. Also, some of you may recognize him from Billy Madison...



Sorry to go on about Downey. But I think that is part of the brilliance of Paul; impeccable casting.

Sal

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2007, 12:17:14 PM »
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Here's my take on the whole twin aspect:

Even if it wasn't planned, it added a whole other interesting dynamic to the story. Daniel encounters two sets of twins - Eli and Paul, and the two Henrys, and both sets play with image of the identical nature. Paul and true Henry are the real thing, in fact half-brother Henry, as it's found out, dies an honest death. Eli and the Henry in the flesh are both imposters; one of a Martin Guerre swap and the other a false prophet. And what becomes of them? Daniel kills them both. For Daniel and these two men are both two sides of the same coin; it's as if Daniel is looking at mirror images of himself. Duality plays a big theme in the film.

You might be reaching here. This film is about dirt blood and spit. It should be raw and unkind and had I not seen the film but read your interpretation I would have expected a story way more philosophical in tone. This isn't that kind of movie. There's no need to confuse audiences about duality, mirror images, etc.

MacGuffin

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2007, 11:05:00 PM »
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I was talking theme; not story.
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