Author Topic: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)  (Read 66234 times)

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polkablues

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #120 on: January 06, 2008, 03:34:02 AM »
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above all, this is a story about fathers and sons.

As are all of PT's films so far (including PDL, which was a story about a son in the complete absence of a father).  I finally got to see this tonight, and it's still swimming around in my brain, but one of the things that struck me hardest about Plainview was the way that his entire humanity was reduced to his... respect, I suppose, or perhaps reverence... for family, or at least the concept of family.  He's a man who hates everyone, yet takes in an orphaned child as his own, and completely opens himself up to a man whom he believes to be his brother.  When he first starts drilling in Little Boston, part of his speech is about how important it is for the men working there to have their families with them, and while it's tempting to write that off as more pandering, I'm inclined to believe it's the one part of his sales pitch that he truly means.

I know that JB questions how much he actually means what he says in the baptism scene, but I'm inclined to think that he means it wholeheartedly.  When he brings H.W. back, he has a line of dialogue along the lines of, "It does me good to have you here."  He says it so sincerely and so happily, in marked contrast to his typical demeanor, I find it impossible not to believe it.  And when H.W. eventually "betrays" him, thereby severing whatever tenuous connection to a family that Plainview ever had, he loses it completely.  He has nothing left to lose, which ends up boding quite poorly for Eli, a man who had a family, but violently and intentionally dismissed them.
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polkablues

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #121 on: January 06, 2008, 02:40:53 PM »
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is that water or vodka that daniel chugs in the final scene?

It was almost certainly vodka.

I might as well weigh in on the twin brother controversy. I knew something was off when Paul was introduced, because I was expecting the name Eli. I figured there was a 50/50 chance this was Eli pretending to be someone else. When Plainview and HW met Eli, I think that possibility was mostly eliminated. Eli (besides looking as though he really was meeting the pair for the first time) was clean-cut, extremely polite, and had this holier-than-thou grin on his face, whereas Paul was more abrasive and crude with his "don't insult my intelligence" attitude. I didn't specifically notice the hair difference, but I'm sure I did subconsciously. Everything Eli said at that dinner table, and the way he talked about oil, suggested that he was not Paul. There just wasn't a motive that would have made sense. Still, I kept it in the back of my mind as a possibility until the "beating up the old man" scene, which made things pretty clear. But I also have to admit that it was still there (residually) until the final scene.

I'm actually really surprised that there is any controversy regarding the brothers.  The movie made it explicitly clear throughout that they were two separate people.  The only moment of confusion is when Eli first appears, but that's alleviated the moment he introduces himself.  The only way it could have been made clearer would have been in Paul had reappeared at some point in the story, but that would have been needless.  And, as JB points out, Paul Dano gave very different performances for each brother.
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pete

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #122 on: January 06, 2008, 03:12:19 PM »
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I have a really good buddy who also thinks it's split-personality.  I went along for like a minute before I realized, hey, split-personality is nothing like that!  split personality is not just "hi I'm Eli, hi I'm Paul".  That's like TV copshow split personality.
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modage

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #123 on: January 06, 2008, 03:17:48 PM »
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paul has confirmed its two brothers.  and he liked the whole accidental Cain Abel thing with them being twins.

one thing i didn't understand was: when eli says to daniel that he has lusted after women.  is he just making that up?  or is it possible that has happened?

i love the music when the film transitions from young HW to getting married HW and the cut after Mary jumps off the porch.  it's the best.

also its funny at the end when eli offers daniel a drink but comes back with 3 glasses.  was the third for himself?  or did he expect daniel to take 2?  either way, he's holding the 3 glasses hilariously. 
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

cine

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #124 on: January 06, 2008, 03:54:49 PM »
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also its funny at the end when eli offers daniel a drink but comes back with 3 glasses.  was the third for himself?  or did he expect daniel to take 2?  either way, he's holding the 3 glasses hilariously. 
i'm pretty sure eli had two but i could be wrong on that..

polkablues

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #125 on: January 06, 2008, 04:20:41 PM »
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also its funny at the end when eli offers daniel a drink but comes back with 3 glasses.  was the third for himself?  or did he expect daniel to take 2?  either way, he's holding the 3 glasses hilariously. 
i'm pretty sure eli had two but i could be wrong on that..

I noticed three glasses, too.  I think they were all intended for Daniel.

one thing i didn't understand was: when eli says to daniel that he has lusted after women.  is he just making that up?  or is it possible that has happened?

Pretty sure he was talking out of his ass with that one.
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modage

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #126 on: January 06, 2008, 04:38:20 PM »
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also its funny at the end when eli offers daniel a drink but comes back with 3 glasses.  was the third for himself?  or did he expect daniel to take 2?  either way, he's holding the 3 glasses hilariously. 
i'm pretty sure eli had two but i could be wrong on that..

you can be and are wrong.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

cine

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #127 on: January 06, 2008, 05:04:20 PM »
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i really do hate you.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #128 on: January 06, 2008, 07:15:27 PM »
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I found a few crucial DDL snippets in this New York Q&A (don't remember where I got linked to that).

DDL on Eli & Plainview

"They're locked together in clear recognition of each other's fraudulence, really."

DDL on the father/son relationship

"Plainview's relationship with his son, his adopted son, is that of a man who has elevated a junior partner into a senior position and feels, you know, both affection and responsibility for them, but nonetheless expects them to be able to come to work every day and do their job. I mean, Plainview, there's no part of him that understands what the responsibility is of a parent. And he's not so consciously cynical as to see, except perhaps at the end when he's had time to ruminate upon his life and look back upon it to see that this young man was a cute face to buy land. And that was in fact a part of the attraction. He understood pretty quickly that it was no bad thing to have this appendage with him. But, you know, there was real love, real affection, but nonetheless, he regarded this unnaturally mature child as a partner, as a working partner in his life. And the minute he began to malfunction, he had no way of dealing with that, he had no understanding of how to deal with this very central figure in his life being, umm, you know, working at a substandard level. So, he kind of cauterizes the wound and excises him, pushes him away, as he tends to do with all figures as he begins to bring them closer to himself, revealing, then, as he begins to see the fallibility of another human being, then he cuts them away and gradually separates himself step by step from mankind."

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modage

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #129 on: January 06, 2008, 09:23:00 PM »
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was the score from the 2nd trailer (not the youtube teaser, but the first real one, not the one on apple), that plays during the THERE WILL BE GREED type cards in the film?  i didn't notice it, i'm not sure if it's on the soundtrack either.  can anyone else remember/confirm/deny this?

yeah its not.  bummer. 



that one (the 2nd) is still my favorite trailer.  and the score from 1:40 to the end is sorely missed in the film.  i wonder why the hell he didn't use it?
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

depooter

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #130 on: January 06, 2008, 09:25:08 PM »
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I finally got to see TWBB this past Thursday night. I can't say that I "enjoyed" the film. What I mean is that I found the film extremely well acted, shot, edited, scored, etc. I was completely engaged he entire time and think it was a step forward in Paul's progression as a filmmaker. I also found it quite bleak and don't think it's a film that I will watch repeatedly in the future (as I still watch PTA's first four films on a regular basis)...

That being said. I have been thinking about it a lot since Thursday and look forward to revisiting again on DVD (or via import on Blu-Ray)......

Pozer

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2008, 11:07:41 PM »
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saw this a third time tonite.  it was better than the 2nd time. 

me too and it was for me too.

HOLY SHIT i noticed the blue eye thing and froio too!  i was really looking for froio tho.  strange movie. 

i want nothing more than for drunk pubrick to see this now.  ill only start getting in depth about it if he does.

Ravi

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #132 on: January 07, 2008, 03:01:23 AM »
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I also found it quite bleak and don't think it's a film that I will watch repeatedly in the future (as I still watch PTA's first four films on a regular basis)...

There's no redemption or forgiveness in this film, unlike in PTA's other films.  Plainview irreparably severs his tie with his son, and as far as we know, they never make up.  Plainview is no better a person at the end of this film than at the beginning.  The film doesn't end tragically per se, but Plainview likely would have died alone and unloved if the film continued on to the rest of his life.

I saw this on Friday and am still digesting it.  More thoughts later.

modage

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #133 on: January 07, 2008, 09:55:16 AM »
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my friend had a theory that when daniel is asleep on the floor at the end that he actually dies and the final confrontation with eli is all in his mind.  as wish fulfillment for  what the person he would want to see and final wish he'd like to carry out.  this is a pretty out there theory, but interesting nonetheless.
he elaborated a bit more this morning and said the Eli is an anagram for Lie, (whoa, mind blown) and also  that he doesn't seem any older in the final scene let alone 20 years older.  daniel seems aged but not eli which could support that its a figment of daniels imagination.  i had initially thought they didn't bother to age him because it looks terrible (a la brokeback mountain). 
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Stefen

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Re: there has been blood (and now QT's review of CMBB)
« Reply #134 on: January 07, 2008, 10:47:40 AM »
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Sounds like PTA has left alot to the imagination in this film. Without seeing it, I can't say whether it's lazy or brilliant filmmaking. I'm learning towards the latter.

I NEED TO SEE THIS.
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