Author Topic: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?  (Read 8228 times)

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Myxo

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..for the very first time? This from a girl who I recently recommended the film to:

"Just finished magnolia, I was crying through most of it, very sad movie.. I dont understand the frogs though : ("

Every .. single .. time. It's always about the frogs. I guess I just got it right away. It made sense in such an urgent tenor that I never really gave it a second thought. Has anyone else had this experience with almost everyone they've recommended this movie to?

I Love a Magician

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2006, 04:29:52 AM »
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It's always about the frogs. I guess I just got it right away. It made sense in such an urgent tenor that I never really gave it a second thought.

Explain the frogs to me, please.

Pubrick

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2006, 08:00:13 AM »
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they ask me if i want to go with them on a trip to new york city and climb the world trade center, cos it's 1999 and life is sweet.
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The Red Vine

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2006, 09:50:51 AM »
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one guy I know said simply "I did not like the frogs...it was too silly with the rest of the movie. but everything was enjoyable". fuck.

this other guy could barely fnish it. he kept saying "I wanted to throw myself out a fuckin window after this was over. even jason robards fuckin died after doing this movie. thats how depressing it was."
"No, really. Just do it. You have some kind of weird reasons that are okay.">

Pozer

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2006, 11:32:38 AM »
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'replace altman?' please.

Myxo

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 12:15:04 AM »
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It's always about the frogs. I guess I just got it right away. It made sense in such an urgent tenor that I never really gave it a second thought.

Explain the frogs to me, please.

It's a reference to Exodus 8:2, but I wouldn't call it very fair for almost anyone to pickup on that. I believe PTA himself mentioned a lack of intention in using biblical allegory, but it ended up working for the film. Sins of the father, for example, is found in MANY different places throughout the bible and muttered by Donnie as he's throwing up in the bathroom. Psalm 79:8 is a great example. The crowd are holding up bible verses during the gameshow, etc etc. We've all visited this dozens of times in other threads.

..but all of that aside, I hardly think PTA ever wanted his audience to be bible scholars and have that allegory be it's only meaning or purpose in the film.

"but it did happen"

"these strange things happen all the time"

In a film full of coincidence, where this whole web of characters are creating cause / effect (a bunch of bad karma), why would frogs falling from the sky be surprising? That's what I took away from it. We go through life thinking that we're unique. That somehow our suffering can't be understood by anyone but ourselves. Claudia was molested as a young girl. Frank Mackey's father abandoned his mother, and forced him into caring for her when he was far too young. Donnie wants braces because he thinks a bartender will love him if they have something in common. I could go on, but you get the idea. Frogs falling from the sky (in my opinion) was a way of bringing all of this suffering under one umbrella. All of the characters in the film had to endure fear, pain and disbelief together. You'll notice some real redemption after the frog scene. For some that meant death and for others it meant forgiveness or acceptance. I'm obviously not calling this the truth, but it was true for me.

grand theft sparrow

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 08:41:20 AM »
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:shock:

I'm totally never going to watch this film again in quite the same way.

Pubrick

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 09:44:09 AM »
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are you people serious?

welcome to 1999, stay a while.

the worst part is myxo is WRONG. PTA had no knowledge of the bible passage existing until way after the frogs had already been written into the script, of course all this rare information can be gleaned from the source i just linked above.

unless that's what you meant to acknowledge by saying "I believe PTA himself mentioned a lack of intention in using biblical allegory", in which case how can you still glibly offer the explanation that it's a reference to Exodus 8:2 when PTA didn't even realise it himself? the biblical explanation is the most stupid of the lot. it only gained popularity cos the recurrence of the numbers made it seem hugely important like it was LOST or something. it's cute and creates just another thread throughout the film but it's hardly a satisfying explanation for why it rains frogs from the sky. "oh it's in the bible, case solved" and just like that, no other explanation necessary. uh.. that's exactly what sucks about ppl who refer to the bible.

no offence to anyone who just started to think about the movie, 7 years late is better than never, but the frogs discussion just feels like someone is still trying to discover what makes an apple fall from a tree. i guess the answer to both questions is not that different.
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Myxo

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2006, 11:09:14 AM »
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unless that's what you meant to acknowledge by saying "I believe PTA himself mentioned a lack of intention in using biblical allegory", in which case how can you still glibly offer the explanation that it's a reference to Exodus 8:2 when PTA didn't even realise it himself? the biblical explanation is the most stupid of the lot. it only gained popularity cos the recurrence of the numbers made it seem hugely important like it was LOST or something. it's cute and creates just another thread throughout the film but it's hardly a satisfying explanation for why it rains frogs from the sky. "oh it's in the bible, case solved" and just like that, no other explanation necessary. uh.. that's exactly what sucks about ppl who refer to the bible.
I'm pretty sure PTA helped edit his own film, and Exodus 8:2 is mentioned in many, many places throughout. Whether or not he meant to include the allegory in his initial writing doesn't matter. It's there, and open for discussion regardless of it being 9, 25 or 100 years after it's release. Do I think the frogs have some sort of biblical explanation for being in the film? No, but it obviously offends some people when anyone brings it up.

last days of gerry the elephant

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2006, 11:47:12 AM »
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I'm pretty sure PTA helped edit his own film, and Exodus 8:2 is mentioned in many, many places throughout. Whether or not he meant to include the allegory in his initial writing doesn't matter. It's there, and open for discussion regardless of it being 9, 25 or 100 years after it's release.

I don't think Pubrick is denying that the biblical reference "is there". We all know it's there. But the movie is left more open ended, you could look at it and argue the case of that Villa Flores in Mexico where it actually rained frogs (but it did happen, scientific) or the whole god thing (8:2, biblical).
I think it's just a matter of overdraining the issue, there isn't much to be discussed a year after the film let alone 9, 25, or 100 years later.

grand theft sparrow

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2006, 12:07:50 PM »
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are you people serious?

I'm sorry... are we not... pretending that this is new to all of us?

My mistake.

Myxo

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2006, 01:37:39 PM »
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The actual discussion I meant to start was based around people we've recommended this movie to, and what their initial reactions have been. Is it 7 years old? Yes. It could be 100 years old and I get the impression people will always go, "I didn't get the frog part."

JG

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2006, 04:43:46 PM »
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To say we can't talk about the film because its seven years late is pretty stupid. ( Eyes Wide Shut came out seven years ago, and a good analysis never gets boring.) A more imporant point is, this board originated as a PTA board. All the points were made way back when, and can be found in other threads here.

Pubrick, I think its wrong to deny the ending and movie of its biblical allusions merely because of the order in which the ideas were concieved. as a viewer, that really should be of no concern to us. thats another problem with directors talking to much, i think we should be able to view a movie free of any glimpses into the creative process or too much knowledge of the creator's backstory (i.e. because "so and so" was raped as a boy, the scene is clearly a metaphor for "so and so"). i want to be able to view a final product free of any biases, so then the movie takes on a life of its own. there should be a point where the creator surrender control and the final product authors itself. like a baby.

but P is right, because its wrong to think that the crux of the whole "frog" ending comes from any biblical references. its deeper than that i think. numbers are like a trendy and easy way of creating a metaphor and i would like to think that the film runs a little deeper than that...

Myxo

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2006, 01:37:35 AM »
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Yeah..

How much allegory in film has been discovered or discussed by viewers only to have the director go :doh:, I never noticed that? The point I was trying to make earlier is that actual intention vs. coincidence is pretty irrelevant. It is what is is. What we choose to glean from a film can be as blatant as it can be simply based on a personal experience. The frustrating part about someone saying "I didn't get the frogs", is a general indifference to actually discover allegory at all. For whatever reason, sometimes it's easier to give in to indifference. It takes less effort.

Pubrick

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Re: What's the first thing most people ask you after seeing Magnolia?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2006, 12:36:05 AM »
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To say we can't talk about the film because its seven years late is pretty stupid. ( Eyes Wide Shut came out seven years ago, and a good analysis never gets boring.)
who the hell is saying that? my problem with this thread is that it's NOT about discussing the FILM at all.

there's no theories being offered here, it's the same old bullshit about the frogs and the stupid numbers which are NOT the whole point of the movie. it's like the goddamn suitcase in pulp fiction. it could easily have been HAIL falling from the sky and hit all the right notes, as PTA has said, but it was made frogs to wake ppl (and the characters of the film) into reflecting on how incredible it is that anything happens at all.

The actual discussion I meant to start was based around people we've recommended this movie to, and what their initial reactions have been. Is it 7 years old? Yes. It could be 100 years old and I get the impression people will always go, "I didn't get the frog part."
so there, let's say i just explained the frogs away, is this thread about the film or the frogs? that's my problem with it. so to bring up JG's point against nobody, ppl don't harp on about just ONE thing on EWS, the orgy if anything, but if someone kept bringing it up like it mattered that it's the one thing everyone brings up about it, and that by extension the film hinged on finding out what it means, i'd call that person an idiot and move on with my life.

who cares what ppl's initial reactions are? and even less if apparently the only initial reaction one can have with magnolia is to wonder about the frogs. that's exactly the reason the frogs and the initial reaction is useless because once ppl get over that, real discussion about the film can begin. at this point i would hope ppl are still not bringing it up unless they just saw the movie yesterday. in which case, get over it and and then come talk to me when you want to discuss the movie and not the frogs.
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