Author Topic: Hayao Miyazaki  (Read 4622 times)

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Pwaybloe

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2009, 09:57:16 AM »
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I was pointing to the dubbing.

GT, it sounds like your biggest complaint is that most people will watch the dubbed version rather than the subtitled version.  You can't really help that.  You should be praising Disney/Pixar for actually keeping the original Japanese subtitled version.  Also, the distribution power and name recognition of Disney/Pixar will always bring Miyazaki to those who would never discover him if the Weinstein Co took charge. 

The instances you pointed out are, in my opinion, inconsequential to the overall story arc.  They are minor changes, but I understand that's subjective.  The only real annoyance I had with the Disney/Pixar "westernizations" was Phil Hartman's Jiji in "Kiki".  If you watch the original Japanese version, Jiji's character is completely different.  The original Jiji is more observant and practically stoic, while Hartman's is the classic slapstick sitcom character that US kids love.  I see why Disney/Pixar made the changes, but it's still annoying. 

Stefen

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2009, 10:02:55 AM »
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Yeah, as long as the subs are on point, that's all I care about. Anyone who would watch it with dubbing deserves whatever shitty translation they get.
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Gold Trumpet

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2009, 12:04:28 PM »
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The instances you pointed out are, in my opinion, inconsequential to the overall story arc.  They are minor changes, but I understand that's subjective.

I jumped out of my chair when I read that. I'm sorry to say, but that is absolutely ridiculous. The plot doesn't change, but what does change is the existence of the major themes. In the dubbed version they are barely there and in the subtitled version, they are vibrant and alive. The film bases a lot of its intangibles on the metaphysical relationship that Chihiro has with the spirit world. Getting rid of that is a minor change?

Miyazaki actually made an attempt with Spirited Away to make an art film. He purposely avoided certain cliches and yet Pixar/Disney did a good job to bring them all back in. It's like if 2001: A Space Odyssey was still shot by Kubrick, but all the moments that were purposely silent were now explained in detail with dialogue. The actual story arc wouldn't change, but 2001 would lose a significant amount of quality because the film works because of the filmmaking's marriage to the story details (or lack of them). I could understand if a few changes were made in the dubbed version, but Disney/Pixar made a ton of changes. I just pointed out the ones I could remember. I could only imagine how many more there were if I actually went back and looked at the film hard.

And I do care if the dubbed version sucks because it means I won't be able to experience Miyazaki in theaters ever. I will always have to wait until DVD (which means 6 more months) and Miyazaki should be experienced in theaters. I also care because it means my friends watch his films dubbed so whenever I mention showing Spirited Away for a movie night, they always beg for the dubbed version because they liked it and would see it again. Of course I then rescind the choice. That's minor, but Miyazaki does beg to be enjoyed in theaters.

Pwaybloe

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2009, 01:24:30 PM »
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GT, I'm not arguing that the dubbed version is superior to the subtitled version, because it's not.  I'm arguing that the changes Disney/Pixar made to "westernize" the story is unimportant and is actually beneficial (at least to Disney/Pixar's intention) to their target audience: young children. 

I have a 3-year old son who loves Miyazaki movies.  Unconditionally.  We chose these movies for him because I felt they were the most likely to treat children with intelligence.  The changes Disney/Pixar made arguably chip away at my original intentions, but overall I am still confident in their ability to effectively entertain young children and impress their parents (obviously I was a huge fan beforehand).  While I could make him view the superior subtitled version, it might be difficult due to his lack of reading ability and understanding of the Japanese language. 

Remember, no editing changes were ever made with any of Miyazaki's movies.  Dialog was simply added to appeal to a broader audience.  It's an old argument I seem to have on Xixax time after time in that people have a hard time understanding that profitability will always trump art in the entertainment industry.  It may be frustrating to you, but believe me it is better for the long term.  The more people who discover Miyazaki, the better.  Again, the subtitled version is included in every one of Disney/Pixar's versions!

Even with your aforementioned gripes about the changes made, I still feel the dubbed version of "Spirited Away" is still an absolute work of art and should be viewed by children and adults alike.  The subtitled version is better, yes, but this is a great start for a beginner.

Gold Trumpet

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2009, 01:42:49 PM »
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Even with your aforementioned gripes about the changes made, I still feel the dubbed version of "Spirited Away" is still an absolute work of art and should be viewed by children and adults alike.  The subtitled version is better, yes, but this is a great start for a beginner.


Great start for a beginner, right, but if young kids hold the dubbed version on a pedestal than they become reluctant to accept the differences of the subtitled version later on in life. I know people who are in their late teens and have seen the dubbed version of Spirited Away and white wash their feelings with it because to them it is a love story set in a fantastic world, but that's all they want it to be. I show them the subtitled version and it impresses them because it's still the same film essentially, but it's still not the version they fell in love with. This is the same culture that gave us Twilight. That film is not going to get fans to read Bram Stroker's famous novel in droves or see Let the Right One In, but it will get them to accept generic works as perfectly acceptable. The world of art has become one in which people just find their cultural niche and get happy with it. Standards and practices may not be right for them, but it is for me.

I understand the dilemma of having a 3 year old. I would have done the same thing if in your shoes. I'm talking about older youths and how they attach themselves to the things they love. Holding onto the taste buds of what a 13 year old has is what is convincing so many people to keep with liking a lot of bad things like Twilight. Again, they aren't me, so I can't really criticize (even though I essentially just did) but I don't put that much trust in our youth. That puts me in the unfortunate situation to not be thankful to Pixar or Disney for making things more kosher for American audiences. Miyazaki set box office records in Japan with people of all ages with his films being left as is. That includes Spirited Away and his latest effort so I rather (in fear of not attracting a lot of audiences initially) that American audiences rise to the same challenge and just accept Miyazaki for who he is. Of course I also think if Spirited Away was dubbed faithfully to Miyazaki's vision it would still be very popular in America. The changes Pixar/Disney made forced a lot of people to rationalize their decisions, but Miyazaki can still be awe inspiring to kids even if they aren't fully comprehending every level of the story.

Pwaybloe

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2009, 02:24:16 PM »
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I understand the frustration, I really do.  Cinephiles in the US will always be in the minority, and I've learned to accept that.  Even though that kind of statement is considered blasphemy now we're in the Obama-age, but at least I can sleep at night. 

brockly

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2009, 11:47:31 AM »
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Pixar is quality for original features, but their English translation for Spirited Away was a wrecking ball to many things that made the film great.

Do you mean the English dubbing was bad or the subtitles?  And what was so bad about them?

I was pointing to the dubbing. The subtitles were fine because they aherred to the original script and it's likely that Disney did it because some component of the film had to reflect Miyazaki's original intention, so they figured why not the subtitled version, since no one would watch it.

To explain, in the subtitled version, Chihiro (Sen) slowly discovers her connection to the spirit world over the course of the film. In the dubbed version, she knows the dragon is Haku at first sight. She explains it to herself, but in the subtitled version his identity becomes revealed slowly. When the dragon is fleeing from Zeniba's spies and Sen tries to help, she catches herself by surprise when yelling at the dragon as if he was Haku. The scream on her part was instinctual. By the time the dragon morphs back into Haku, Sen is surprised it's really him, but her instincts told her who he was. The slow discovery of Haku as the dragon is important to the themes in the story, but is totally absent in the dubbed version.

Also, in the dubbed version, they rationalize why Sen refers Zeniba (Yubaba's sister) as grandma. Zeniba asks Sen to refer to her as grandma, but in the subtitled version Sen just starts calling her that, like it was something she did before. Also, the dubbed version continually says that only true love can break the spell that Haku was under, but in the subtitled version love is only referred to when the keeper of the furnaces (I forget his name) just says "love" when trying to understand why Haku is still alive (after his brutal attack) and why Sen went to Zeniba to save Haku.

At the end when Sen is flying with the dragon and she remembers the story about falling into a river as a child, it permanently transforms the dragon back into Haku. In the dubbed version she tells the story then Haku goes on about how he was the spirit of the river. In the subtitled version it is only said that Haku was the river. It never says whether he was a spirit or a living body of water. It's left open to interpretation.

Finally, in the dubbed version, at the very end, Dad says to say Chihiro about how a new school can be scary and Chiro replies that she can handle it, but that is never said in the subtitled version. It just cuts to end credits so the film doesn't try to over emphasize a point about Chiro's maturity over the course of the film. The subtitled version at least thinks you understand that she turned over a new leaf, but the dubbed version continues to spell things out.

All in all, the subtitled version gives you a metaphysical story. The connections with Chihiro and the spirit world are implied, but never really explained. Keeping a good amount of mystery to her connection with the spirit world is what makes the story metaphysical. You wonder about how the characters are all connected. The dubbed version not only tries to explain every mystery, but it also tries to outright ditch a lot of them too. It's almost offensive.

Miramax only made one major change when adapting Princess Mononoke. The Spirit of the Forest was originally referred to as a Deer God in the original, but I thought the original name that was too vague anyways. The story implies a lot of weight in his character so a more suited title to show his importance was needed. Other than that Miramax left things alone. They improved sound quality by giving a lot of action scenes more sound effects to heighten tension. None of the effects were over embellished. It just made the story flow a lot better for me.

this is a great post  :yabbse-thumbup: :yabbse-thumbup:

MacGuffin

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2009, 12:27:49 PM »
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These A-list U.S. stars will voice Miyazaki's Ponyo for its American release
Source: SciFi Wire

An A-list cast—including Liam Neeson, Matt Damon and Tina Fey—will voice the masterful, otherwordly animation of Japanese virtuoso Hayao Miyazaki's Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea for its North American release, with a bit of help from E.T. writer Melissa Matheson, producer Frank Marshall told reporters this week.

Marshall and his producing partner Kathleen Kennedy are deeply involved in bringing the movie to mainstream western audiences this summer. "Kathy and I came on to produce the North American, English-speaking version of Ponyo," Marshall said on Tuesday. "It's been a fantastic experience."

Inspired by Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tale "The Little Mermaid," Ponyo tells the story of a goldfish and her quest to become human.

Marshall and Kennedy said that they've been longtime fans of Miyazaki ever since Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away. "What we are trying to do is introduce his world to a lot more people, because I think his films get put in the art-house section or the specialized section," Marshall said. "But every time we introduce our friends and their kids to the movies, they want all the movies. It's a world that I think everyone should see and understand and experience. It's hopefully what we will be able to do with this new release."

Marshall and Kennedy are working with Toho and Walt Disney Pictures to release a "tweaked," A-list-voiced version of Ponyo in the United States on Aug. 14.

"We have a fantastic cast, ... from Tina Fey to Liam Neeson to Cloris Leachman to Matt Damon," Marshall said. "There will be a subtitled version on the DVD, but we are trying to say this is a new animated movie. It's not Japanese. It's just a fantastic story, so go see it so that we can try and expand it out of the specialized film world."

Marshall also revealed that the changes are in conjunction with the master animator to ensure his blessing. "We worked closely with Studio Ghibli and Miyazaki-san and [Toshio] Suzuki-san, who is the producer. We speak daily, and they have been very involved in everything. It's not a direct translation. We have tweaked the story so it is an understandable story for our audience. Melissa Matheson, who wrote E.T., came in and helped us shape the story. We are bringing all our resources and friends into this who have responded, as we have, to how wonderful these movies are."

Marshall added, "Hopefully this will trigger people to go and look at Miyazaki-san's other movies, because they are fantastic, too."
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MacGuffin

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2010, 10:16:11 PM »
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Miyazaki Developing Porco Rosso: The Last Sortie
Source: ComingSoon

Acclaimed animation director Hayao Miyazaki is developing a sequel to his 1992 film Porco Rosso entitled Porco Rosso: The Last Sortie, says a report from Cut Magazine (via Nausicaa.net and AICN).

The original film told the story of an Italian World War I fighter pilot who was transformed into a pig by a magical curse. The English language release featured Michael Keaton in the titular role.

Miyazaki is quoted as saying that The Last Sortie will be set during the Spanish Civil War and that it will represent a sort of artistic escape for him at the moment, focusing on a male character after so many films with female protagonists.

A sequel to Porco Rosso would represent the first direct sequel on the part of Miyazaki's Studio Ghibli. Previously, characters have crossed over between films (as was the case with Whisper of the Heart and The Cat Returns as well as the Susuwatari creatures in both My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away.
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MacGuffin

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2013, 01:27:41 PM »
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Hayao Miyazaki to Retire from Filmmaking
Source: Collider

Japanese filmmaker Hayao Miyazaki is retiring.  Studio Ghibli president Hoshino Koji announced earlier today at the Venice Film Festival that the 72-year-old filmmaker and master of animation is retiring, but further questions about the decision were not answered.  Miyazaki first started working as an animator in 1961, going on to co-found the wonderful Japanese animation studio Studio Ghibli, where he directed a number of highly regarded animation features including 1988’s My Neighbor Totoro, 1989’s Kiki’s Delivery Service, 1995’s Princess Mononoke, and 2007’s Ponyo.

This is not the first time that Miyazaki has announced retirement, as he previously took a sabbatical after Princess Mononoke, only to come return to direct 2004’s Howl’s Moving Castle.  Miyazaki’s latest—and probably final—film, The Wind Rises, is currently making the festival rounds and is poised to play Telluride this weekend and the Toronto International Film Festival next week.
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jenkins

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Re: Hayao Miyazaki
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2014, 08:42:00 PM »
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first lasseter mentions disney is #1, then at 4:47 he heavy metal remembers how much he appreciates miyazaki. also, earlier he mentions how his wife liking Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro is how his wife became his wife

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