Author Topic: michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions  (Read 22902 times)

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Sleuth

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #90 on: September 29, 2003, 04:32:58 PM »
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Franken 8)
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Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #91 on: September 29, 2003, 04:40:00 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Edmonton is way safer than Toronto


Wait a second. This article (first one I found.. I'm sure there are others) shows that there's more violent crime in Edmonton (bottom of the page). Just for some perspective, Edmonton's population is 650,000 and Toronto's is 3,840,000.

Quote from: godardian
I nominate Al Franken way before Michael Moore to be Spokesperson for the Rational Majority


Except for his opinions on racial profiling. He might have changed that by now, though... I hope he has. I like Franken outside of that, but he's a little too moderate, and I'm not sure that he's taken as seriously as Michael Moore is.
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godardian

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #92 on: September 29, 2003, 04:45:02 PM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: SoNowThen
Edmonton is way safer than Toronto


Wait a second. This article (first one I found.. I'm sure there are others) shows that there's more violent crime in Edmonton (bottom of the page). Just for some perspective, Edmonton's population is 650,000 and Toronto's is 3,840,000.

Quote from: godardian
I nominate Al Franken way before Michael Moore to be Spokesperson for the Rational Majority


Except for his opinions on racial profiling. He might have changed that by now, though... I hope he has. I like Franken outside of that, but he's a little too moderate, and I'm not sure that he's taken as seriously as Michael Moore is.


Franken is a bit too moderate for me, also, but I like his articulateness. It's too bad if he was pro-racial-profiling... I hadn't heard that. I've just read his books and seen him speak.

He hasn't made a movie (please, everyone, forget Stuart Saves His Family!), but he HAS sold scads of books! I agree he's obviously more a comedian than Moore is, but I think of Moore as something of a comedian, too... certainly, neither of them are what you'd consider really original political thinkers. They're activists, not intellectuals, but that's what they do best, and that's what's needed right now. Theory and idealism are luxuries best indulged in less urgent times than these...
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #93 on: September 29, 2003, 04:50:40 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
It's too bad if he was pro-racial-profiling... I hadn't heard that. I've just read his books and seen him speak.


I heard that in an interview a few months after Sept 11. He said that profiling Arabs was probably the best thing, and that he knew some Arab-Americans who also agreed with it (he sincerely wasn't joking, I swear). I'd like to know if his opinion has changed.
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Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #94 on: October 07, 2003, 06:56:52 PM »
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I've read the first chapter.

I'll just say one thing... People are not going to take this lightly. And they shouldn't.

It's currently #1 at Amazon.
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godardian

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2003, 06:59:23 PM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman


I've read the first chapter.

I'll just say one thing... People are not going to take this lightly. And they shouldn't.

It's currently #1 at Amazon.


You see him last night on "The Daily Show"? If only he could say "inhumane" instead of "inhuman." That sort of just-this-short-of-articulation is why he fails to completely win me over.

I'm still interested in reading his books, though. I haven't read one yet.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

NEON MERCURY

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #96 on: October 07, 2003, 07:04:20 PM »
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"Dude where's my country"?

-michael moore



"dude  if you don't like your country you can always LEAVE..
  :roll: "

-the rest of this rational country.

his ACT is getting tired.....
HE IS A FAD NOW NOTHOING MORE..AND ALL FADS GO OUT OF STYLE

Gloria

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2003, 07:09:42 PM »
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I don't know why his opinion matters so much (and can fill up books). Then again, I don't know why people concern themselves with any opinion but their own. I think that if people think and educate themselves on issues and politics, they will figure out their own answers without having to listen or read about someone elses.

godardian

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #98 on: October 07, 2003, 07:12:49 PM »
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Quote from: NEON MERCURY
"Dude where's my country"?

-michael moore



"dude  if you don't like your country you can always LEAVE..
  :roll: "

-the rest of this rational country.

his ACT is getting tired.....
HE IS A FAD NOW NOTHOING MORE..AND ALL FADS GO OUT OF STYLE


Implying that dissenters should leave is a few steps too close to fascism, isn't it? PARTICULARLY in this great country, I would think.

He's saying, however crudely, that Bush has usurped good things like patriotic feeling, open debate, and public trust and perverted them. There's Bush's tiny-minded country, and then there's the country as it could be: Prosperous, peaceful, open, honest, and reasonable.

People who question Bush aren't going to leave this country to the wolves- we're going to question our flawed, wrongheaded leaders and try to change things. There is no way to argue that that is not PRECISELY "The American Way."
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

godardian

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2003, 07:19:18 PM »
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Quote from: Gloria
I don't know why his opinion matters so much (and can fill up books). Then again, I don't know why people concern themselves with any opinion but their own. I think that if people think and educate themselves on issues and politics, they will figure out their own answers without having to listen or read about someone elses.


That seems rational, but forming our opinions usually involves listening to a broad spectrum of other people's opinions and choosing which seems most correct and reasonable to us.

In other words, it's naive to think that opinions can be formed in a perfectly objective vacuum. "Educating yourself" is nothing but processing other people's ideas and opinions- versions of and spins on the facts- and public opinion, particularly, is notoriously mutable and easily affected by multifarious factors.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

NEON MERCURY

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #100 on: October 07, 2003, 07:25:43 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
"Dude where's my country"?

-michael moore



"dude  if you don't like your country you can always LEAVE..
  :roll: "

-the rest of this rational country.

his ACT is getting tired.....
HE IS A FAD NOW NOTHOING MORE..AND ALL FADS GO OUT OF STYLE


Implying that dissenters should leave is a few steps too close to fascism, isn't it? PARTICULARLY in this great country, I would think.

He's saying, however crudely, that Bush has usurped good things like patriotic feeling, open debate, and public trust and perverted them. There's Bush's tiny-minded country, and then there's the country as it could be: Prosperous, peaceful, open, honest, and reasonable.

People who question Bush aren't going to leave this country to the wolves- we're going to question our flawed, wrongheaded leaders and try to change things. There is no way to argue that that is not PRECISELY "The American Way."



I ..mean that I am gewtting tired of him bashing our country and the country that gives him the free sppeeech to ramble on the eway he does..  IF IT IS OUR COUNTRY/SOCIETY/NATION/ETC.  is SO BAD off or(insert all of Michael moore's negatives about the US and Governemnt here___________________________-, ________blah, blah, _____--)..then he is not forced to "deal" w/ all the "hardships" going on in the US..

as for unsurped Patriotic feelings et al..I HAVE NEVER FELT MORE PATRIOTIC THAN AFTER 9-11,  WE AS A COUNTRY BANDED TOGETHER AND FOUGHT TRHOUGH THIS AND PUNISHED PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS (i know not everyone was caught but give us some time)..as for open debate  ..Michael more is living proof that you can say whatever rediculuos thing and the amendment for free speech is still intact and ..i think public trust is IMO fine..........

Gloria

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« Reply #101 on: October 07, 2003, 07:29:56 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
Quote from: Gloria
I don't know why his opinion matters so much (and can fill up books). Then again, I don't know why people concern themselves with any opinion but their own. I think that if people think and educate themselves on issues and politics, they will figure out their own answers without having to listen or read about someone elses.


That seems rational, but forming our opinions usually involves listening to a broad spectrum of other people's opinions and choosing which seems most correct and reasonable to us.

In other words, it's naive to think that opinions can be formed in a perfectly objective vacuum. "Educating yourself" is nothing but processing other people's ideas and opinions- versions of and spins on the facts- and public opinion, particularly, is notoriously mutable and easily affected by multifarious factors.


I do think that debates of qualified and educated people are a great way to see all sides of an opinion, but I don't understand the facination with one person's point of view.  We should see all sides of an arguement in order to educate ourselves, but we should not depend on someone to varify our views.

godardian

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #102 on: October 07, 2003, 07:30:25 PM »
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Quote from: NEON MERCURY
Quote from: godardian
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
"Dude where's my country"?

-michael moore



"dude  if you don't like your country you can always LEAVE..
  :roll: "

-the rest of this rational country.

his ACT is getting tired.....
HE IS A FAD NOW NOTHOING MORE..AND ALL FADS GO OUT OF STYLE


Implying that dissenters should leave is a few steps too close to fascism, isn't it? PARTICULARLY in this great country, I would think.

He's saying, however crudely, that Bush has usurped good things like patriotic feeling, open debate, and public trust and perverted them. There's Bush's tiny-minded country, and then there's the country as it could be: Prosperous, peaceful, open, honest, and reasonable.

People who question Bush aren't going to leave this country to the wolves- we're going to question our flawed, wrongheaded leaders and try to change things. There is no way to argue that that is not PRECISELY "The American Way."



I ..mean that I am gewtting tired of him bashing our country and the country that gives him the free sppeeech to ramble on the eway he does..  IF IT IS OUR COUNTRY/SOCIETY/NATION/ETC.  is SO BAD off or(insert all of Michael moore's negatives about the US and Governemnt here___________________________-, ________blah, blah, _____--)..then he is not forced to "deal" w/ all the "hardships" going on in the US..

as for unsurped Patriotic feelings et al..I HAVE NEVER FELT MORE PATRIOTIC THAN AFTER 9-11,  WE AS A COUNTRY BANDED TOGETHER AND FOUGHT TRHOUGH THIS AND PUNISHED PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS (i know not everyone was caught but give us some time)..as for open debate  ..Michael more is living proof that you can say whatever rediculuos thing and the amendment for free speech is still intact and ..i think public trust is IMO fine..........


I have never heard Michael Moore bash this country; I think it would only seem that he was if you're incapable of separating this country and what it stands for from its leaders and their interests. I would laugh in the face of anyone who claimed the current administration is acting in the best interests of the average American.  

George Bush has, in Al Franken's words, "squandered" public trust by ruthlessly EXPLOITING post 9-11 patriotism for his own short-sighted and destructive political goals, which have consisted of bait-and-switch LYING on a fairly relentless basis.

"It's one thing to lie about your sex life while you're in office... it's another to lie about something that's going to put the lives of American troops on the line." - Al Franken
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

NEON MERCURY

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #103 on: October 07, 2003, 07:35:34 PM »
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You got . a point there I admit...

but i just see things a little differently..

but whoever runs the country it works.. out for the most part
democrat/republican/liberal/whatever..its almost the same

godardian

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #104 on: October 07, 2003, 07:38:29 PM »
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Quote from: NEON MERCURY
You got . a point there I admit...

but i just see things a little differently..

but whoever runs the country it works.. out for the most part
democrat/republican/liberal/whatever..its almost the same


Well... for WHOM it works out is really the question, but I agree that it's set up so that things can get pretty bad without destroying the nation.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

 

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