Author Topic: michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions  (Read 22891 times)

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RegularKarate

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2003, 10:44:10 PM »
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Quote from: NEON MERCURY
.i canot stand it that people criticize Bush for liberating a country and making the world safer for ALL THE WORLD!!!!!!  what can you say negative about this ....???..NOTHING really!  //michael moore abusues the right of freedom of speech , a right that was won for us b/c  of war....


to President Bush and his administration: :yabbse-thumbup:

to michael moore: :yabbse-thumbdown:


Quote from: NEON MERCURY

i am not that big into politics ...

i am just a proud American who supports his country and values the freedoms that comes w/ living in America..


you probably vote, too

NEON MERCURY

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2003, 10:47:20 PM »
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Quote from: RegularKarate


you probably vote, too


.... :oops: i havn't in  a while..It's been a few elections since.....

Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #77 on: August 30, 2003, 10:55:33 PM »
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Quote from: NEON MERCURY
michael moore abusues the right of freedom of speech , a right that was won for us b/c  of war....


(and is now being taken from us b/c of war....)

This is one of the saddest things I've heard in a while. I don't really mean that condescendingly, I mean that it really makes me sad. It's sad that people don't understand freedom of speech. They don't understand that every movement that has made this country better was done through dissent. Presidents rarely lead this country into progress.

Quote from: NEON MERCURY
total idiot for attacking our president like that in front of our nation and all of the soldiers watching the telecast abroad who give their life for our country


I wouldn't have had it any other way. He didn't attack the soldiers, did he? Isn't it possible to attack Bush without attacking his soldiers? Isn't it possible to attack a corrupt corporation without attacking its employees? You would have a better case if you called him reckless rather than idiotic (although I would say "brave"). Is a dissenter an idiot just because they dissent?


Quote from: NEON MERCURY
who give their life for our country andf fight oppressive regimes to keep our  country safe.. THINK ABOUT IT !!!!!


That's regurgitation. Can you justify Bush's wars in your own words?


Quote from: NEON MERCURY
.i canot stand it that people criticize Bush for liberating a country and making the world safer for ALL THE WORLD!!!!!!  what can you say negative about this ....???..NOTHING really!


Except that it has cost 7,000 civillian deaths and 71 billion dollars. Except that violence rages on day after day in a guerilla war. Except that most Iraqis don't have water or electricty, and haven't since the "end" of the war. Except that the world is not safer, with reports of large upsurges in the size of terrorist groups. Except that, with the festering humanitarian disaster in Iraq, local terrorist groups will inevitably grow (with the help of ethnic tension), fighting against American forces and whatever administration they eventually install. Except that the reason for going to war (WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION) has all but been completely disproven.

Quote from: NEON MERCURY
i am not that big into politics so i don't follow that perspective of it all...

i am just a proud American who supports his country and values the freedoms that comes w/ living in America..


Please, for the sake of this country, pay more attention to what's going on.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

NEON MERCURY

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #78 on: August 30, 2003, 11:18:23 PM »
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The first response you made about MM/freedom of speech i feeel that  you make some valid points...


The second respone about MM and his jibberish and the soldiers ..was about this mindset::..let's say you are a soldier and happened to watch the telecast and then you hear  Michae Moore criticize the president which is something DURING THE TIME OR WAR  a soldier does not need to hear...i myself if i was asoldier wouldn't want to hear that garbage i'm over here fighting for the US and this is the praise/animosity/thanks/"words of encouragement" i get ...from who!??......someone like michael moore..WTF....??..it was not right IMO..if you are gonna say stuff like this keep it out of something thats seen all over the world like the Acad. awrds.(the soldiers need to hear words of encouragement not negativity)....I mean come, on EVEN LIBERAL HOLLYWOOD BOOED HIM...what MM said was not what the soldiers needed to hear..and whatever backlash he gets from that jabber was/is well deserved...and that is how i thought he attacked the soldiers...

The third response: in my own words..I BELIEVE THIS WAR WAS STARTRED TO RID THE WORLD OR TERROR/IST/ISM...TO MAKE THE 'WORLD A BETTER PLACE FOR ALL''..(cliched, but it's what i believe in my own words)..

The forth response ...you have opened my eyes to some of the things that  i was not aware of ..but i can only say that this wasn't gona be easy and hope for a swift recovery..(for something like this their are going to be negatives)

For the fifth response ...your right i should i am just responding to "what i know"....

Vile5

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2003, 01:56:14 PM »
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Quote from: NEON MERCURY
Quote from: RegularKarate


you probably vote, too


.... :oops: i havn't in  a while..It's been a few elections since.....


now i get it, i'm sure you're so proud of your country and that's great! but just being careful when you listen to politicians, ok? because they almost never and i mean never say the true...just don't trust them, ok?
"Wars have never hurt anybody except the people who die." - Salvador Dalí

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2003, 02:39:31 PM »
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Quote from: Vile5
just don't trust them, ok?


exactly. trust no one

Jeremy Blackman

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« Reply #81 on: September 01, 2003, 03:02:35 PM »
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Quote from: Vile5
now i get it, i'm sure you're so proud of your country and that's great! but just being careful when you listen to politicians, ok?


That's an important point, because when those two things are combined the whole thing gets perverted. Politicians and patriotism is not a good combination.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

jokerspath

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2003, 10:33:54 AM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: Vile5
now i get it, i'm sure you're so proud of your country and that's great! but just being careful when you listen to politicians, ok?


That's an important point, because when those two things are combined the whole thing gets perverted. Politicians and patriotism is not a good combination.


JB: As well as making some really great points in your last two posts, you also have a terrific avatar.  Good times...

aw
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Jeremy Blackman

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« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2003, 01:56:35 PM »
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Michael Moore responds to claims that Bowling for Columbine (or parts of it) is fake.
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SoNowThen

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #84 on: September 29, 2003, 02:05:19 PM »
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"just be careful when you listen to politicians" is a good policy, and can also be applied to "just be careful when you listen to documentary filmmakers".

Let's be fair in our mistrust, please.

Now, I've only seen about 10 minutes of this movie (which so disgusted me I had to go away), but did I hear right that Moore claims we don't lock our doors in Canada? Correct me if I'm wrong here, 'cause I don't wanna go off on a rant over this unless it was actually claimed...

Also, the good majority of murders in Edmonton this year and last were caused by young adult gang members who didn't register their guns. Just though I'd point that out about our "safe, sane" country.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

©brad

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2003, 02:13:08 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
"just be careful when you listen to politicians" is a good policy, and can also be applied to "just be careful when you listen to documentary filmmakers".

Let's be fair in our mistrust, please.

Now, I've only seen about 10 minutes of this movie (which so disgusted me I had to go away), but did I hear right that Moore claims we don't lock our doors in Canada? Correct me if I'm wrong here, 'cause I don't wanna go off on a rant over this unless it was actually claimed...

Also, the good majority of murders in Edmonton this year and last were caused by young adult gang members who didn't register their guns. Just though I'd point that out about our "safe, sane" country.


look, u need to see the movie. what 10 mins did u see, and why were u so disgusted?

SoNowThen

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #86 on: September 29, 2003, 02:27:39 PM »
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The cartoon.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2003, 04:17:40 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
"just be careful when you listen to politicians" is a good policy, and can also be applied to "just be careful when you listen to documentary filmmakers".


Of course we should be careful when we listen to documentary filmmakers. Which is why I read all the claims that Moore faked parts of BFC. Now, we can take this skepticism further when a documentary filmmaker becomes president.

Quote from: SoNowThen
Now, I've only seen about 10 minutes of this movie


Be careful of judging this movie based on one scene. Especially that scene, which is one of the most sensationalized scenes in this movie. You may not be as horrified with the rest of it.

Quote from: SoNowThen
but did I hear right that Moore claims we don't lock our doors in Canada?


In that part of the movie, he's in Toronto, which (as far as I know) is a little different from Edmonton.
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SoNowThen

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2003, 04:24:49 PM »
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True enough. I'll probably see it one day, when all this dies down. I was a huge fan of Roger And Me.

But yeah, Edmonton is way safer than Toronto, that was my point. I guess that's what I object to. It's the painting of us here as this safe, wonderful haven. But we're just as fucked up as you folks south of the border. We also have lots of good too. Lots of good and lots of bad, but certainly not better.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #89 on: September 29, 2003, 04:31:41 PM »
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I can't say I was "disgusted" with Moore's film, but I do have to say that SoNowThen's reaction to it is exemplary of why I'm so ambivalent about Moore. I'm torn between wanting the left to have a richly deserved comeback for the spittle-drenched likes of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, those exploitative, lying hypocrites, and feeling like it's not so much WHAT Limbaugh and Coulter supposedly believe in (though I'm convinced that this sort of right-winger actually "believes in" nothing but their own celebrity and the easiness of their audience), but HOW they get it across, in that lowest-common-denominator, rabble-rousing way, and Moore's tactics do come too close to that too often for my comfort.

I know Blackman and I have strongly disagreed on this before, and my anti-Moore feeling isn't quite so strong now, as we descend deeper and deeper into Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft's nightmare Depression, but... I nominate Al Franken way before Michael Moore to be Spokesperson for the Rational Majority. I guess Moore means well, and I definitely think he's right in his beliefs and what he's trying to say, but I just found parts of that movie too manipulative.
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