Author Topic: michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions  (Read 22894 times)

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AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2003, 04:25:46 AM »
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Quote from: Xixax


MICHAEL MOORE IS THE MOST NOBLE AND SAINTLY PUBLIC FIGURE EVER TO LAY HIS FEET UPON THIS HUMBLED EARTH

Thank you.


i belive Xixax was quoteing betty white , she said this the day after the acadmy awards, when she was on b.e.t

MacGuffin

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2003, 01:46:04 PM »
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Both stories from the Los Angeles Times:

I'd Like to Thank the Vatican...
Michael Moore fesses up to his Oscar day 'mistake' -- going to Mass first.

By Michael Moore, Michael Moore won an Academy Award for "Bowling for Columbine."

A word of advice to future Oscar winners: Don't begin Oscar day by going to church.

That is where I found myself this past Sunday morning, at the Church of the Good Shepherd on Santa Monica Boulevard, at Mass with my sister and my dad. My problem with the Catholic Mass is that sometimes I find my mind wandering after I hear something the priest says, and I start thinking all these crazy thoughts like how it is wrong to kill people and that you are not allowed to use violence upon another human being unless it is in true self-defense.

The pope even came right out and said it: This war in Iraq is not a just war and, thus, it is a sin.

Those thoughts were with me the rest of the day, from the moment I left the church and passed by the homeless begging for change (one in six American children living in poverty is another form of violence), to the streets around the Kodak Theater where antiwar protesters were being arrested as I drove by in my studio-sponsored limo.

I had not planned on winning an Academy Award for "Bowling for Columbine" (no documentary that was a big box-office success had won since "Woodstock"), and so I had no speech prepared. I'm not much of a speech-preparer anyway, and besides, I had already received awards in the days leading up to the Oscars and used the same acceptance remarks. I spoke of the need for nonfiction films when we live in such fictitious times. We have a fictitious president who was elected with fictitious election results. (If you still believe that 3,000 elderly Jewish Americans -- many of them Holocaust survivors -- voted for Pat Buchanan in West Palm Beach in 2000, then you are a true devotee to the beauty of fiction!) He is now conducting a war for a fictitious reason (the claim that Saddam Hussein has stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction when in fact we are there to get the world's second-largest supply of oil).

Whether it is a tax cut that is passed off as a gift to the middle class or a desire to drill holes in the wilds of Alaska, we are continually bombarded with one fictitious story after another from the Bush White House. And that is why it is important that filmmakers make nonfiction, so that all the little lies can be exposed and the public informed. An uninformed public in a democracy is a sure-fire way to end up with little or no democracy at all.

That is what I have been saying for some time. Millions of Americans seem to agree. My book "Stupid White Men" still sits at No. 1 on the bestseller list (it's been on that list now for 53 weeks and is the largest-selling nonfiction book of the year). "Bowling for Columbine" has broken all box-office records for a documentary. My Web site is now getting up to 20 million hits a day (more than the White House's site). My opinions about the state of the nation are neither unknown nor on the fringe, but rather they exist with mainstream majority opinion. The majority of Americans, according to polls, want stronger environmental laws, support Roe vs. Wade and did not want to go into this war without the backing of the United Nations and all of our allies.

That is where the country is at. It's liberal, it's for peace and it is only tacitly in support of its leader because that is what you are supposed to do when you are at war and you want your kids to come back from Iraq alive.

In the commercial break before the best documentary Oscar was to be announced, I suddenly thought that maybe this community of film people was also part of that American majority and just might have voted for my film, which, in part, takes on the Bush administration for manipulating the public with fear so it can conduct its acts of aggression against the Third World. I leaned over to my fellow nominees and told them that, should I win, I was going to say something about President Bush and the war and would they like to join me up on the stage? I told them that I felt like I'd already had my moment with the success of the film and that I would love for them to share the stage with me so they could have their moment too. (They had all made exceptional films and I wanted the public to see these filmmakers and hopefully go see their films.)

They all agreed.

Moments later, Diane Lane opened the envelope and announced the winner: "Bowling for Columbine." The entire main floor rose to its feet for a standing ovation. I was immeasurably moved and humbled as I motioned for the other nominees to join my wife (the film's producer) and me up on the stage.

I then said what I had been saying all week at those other awards ceremonies. I guess a few other people had heard me say those things too because before I had finished my first sentence about the fictitious president, a couple of men (some reported it was "stagehands" just to the left of me) near a microphone started some loud yelling. Then a group in the upper balcony joined in. What was so confusing to me, as I continued my remarks, was that I could hear this noise but looking out on the main floor, I didn't see a single person booing. But then the majority in the balcony -- who were in support of my remarks -- started booing the booers.

It all turned into one humungous cacophony of yells and cheers and jeers. And all I'm thinking is, "Hey, I put on a tux for this?"

I tried to get out my last line ("Any time you've got both the pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, you're not long for the White House") and the orchestra struck up its tune to end the melee. (A few orchestra members came up to me later and apologized, saying they had wanted to hear what I had to say.) I had gone 55 seconds, 10 more than allowed.

Was it appropriate? To me, the inappropriate thing would have been to say nothing at all or to thank my agent, my lawyer and the designer who dressed me -- Sears Roebuck. I made a movie about the American desire to use violence both at home and around the world. My remarks were in keeping with exactly what my film was about. If I had a movie about birds or insects, I would have talked about birds or insects. I made a movie about guns and Americans' tradition of using them against the world and each other.

And, as I walked up to the stage, I was still thinking about the lessons that morning at Mass. About how silence, when you observe wrongs being committed, is the same as committing those wrongs yourself. And so I followed my conscience and my heart.

On the way back home to Flint, Mich., the day after the Oscars, two flight attendants told me how they had gotten stuck overnight in Flint with no flight -- and wound up earning only $30 for the day because they are paid by the hour.

They said they were telling me this in the hope that I would tell others. Because they, and the millions like them, have no voice. They don't get to be commentators on cable news like the bevy of retired generals we've been watching all week. (Can we please demand that the U.S. military remove its troops from ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN/MSNBC/Fox?) They don't get to make movies or talk to a billion people on Oscar night. They are the American majority who are being asked to send their sons and daughters over to Iraq to possibly die so Bush's buddies can have the oil.

Who will speak for them if I don't? That's what I do, or try to do, every day of my life, and March 23, 2003 -- though it was one of the greatest days of my life and an honor I will long cherish -- was no different.

Except I made the mistake of beginning it in a church.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Michael Moore, the new diplomat
In Europe, the director has come to symbolize the American underdog.

Paris -- When Michael Moore won best documentary for "Bowling for Columbine" at last week's Academy Awards, his antiwar comments -- "Shame on you, Mr. Bush!" -- were met with cheers and jeers. The orchestra cut him off. Steve Martin made a joke.

The mood was quite different at the Césars, the French Oscars, a few weeks beforehand, as Moore lumbered up to accept the best foreign film award. He made the routine apology for his high-school French. Then he delivered a well-rehearsed, improvisational-style speech in English, pausing expertly for the translator. At a leisurely pace, he thanked our French allies for the cinema, for French fries and French kisses. For helping us in the War of Independence and saying no to the war we had not yet officially begun.

"One of the best definitions of an ally, of a friend," he said, "is that your friend is the one who can tell you when you're wrong. So thank you for showing us the way, for standing up for something very important."

Moore insisted that he represented "tens of millions" of Americans who praised the firm French antiwar stance, not a lone voice in a self-styled wilderness. In crooked bow tie and schlumpy tux, the filmmaker and bestselling author was the ultimate antihero, earnestly dragging his wife and producer Kathleen Glynn up on stage, laughing his "yuk, yuk, yuk" laugh -- and getting the night's most rousing and spontaneous standing ovation.

Europeans have always had an appetite for subversive American voices, and Moore's provocative, outspoken, sarcastic, muckraking style, which some also label glib and narcissistic -- is closely watched here. It would be overstating the case to say that he is more appreciated here than at home, but Europeans have come to rely on him as a singular voice for the American underdog since he made an international name for himself with his 1989 breakthrough documentary "Roger and Me." In this era of troubled U.S. diplomacy, you might even say that Moore has become perhaps America's chief cultural ambassador in this part of the world.

"Bowling for Columbine" was the first documentary in half a century to be admitted to the main competition at last May's Cannes Film Festival, where it won the special jury prize. Moore's bestselling book "Stupid White Men ... and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation" is No. 1 and No. 2 on Amazon.de (in German and English, respectively) and is a bestseller in France, where its title is "Mike Contre-attaque!" or "Mike Counterattack!" It won Book of the Year from the British Book Awards this winter. Last fall in London, Moore's one-man show "Michael Moore -- Live!" was full for its five-week run at the Roundhouse theater.

A bookseller at the Waterstone's in the London neighborhood of Notting Hill, where "Stupid White Men" is No. 1, said, "It's still flying off the shelves -- too bad it hasn't been able to change anything politically." Moore's name comes up in conversation at Parisian dinner parties, and in French political debates, he's used as shorthand proof that the American left is alive and well, despite the image projected by Washington.

"Moore has amassed a sizable following on both sides of the Atlantic, not only as a satirical writer, but also as a comedian and mickey-taking documentary maker," said London's Independent on Sunday, in a review of "Stupid White Men," adding that "Michael Moore, the people's champion, has just turned into a brand." The paper headlined another review: "THE BESTSELLER THAT BUSH'S AMERICA TRIED TO BAN."

The startling success of "Stupid White Men," the article said, suggests "that the 'popularity' of George Bush is not nearly as universal as the manufactured consensus would suggest." It went on to praise American book-buyers "who are reinforcing that proudest of all American traditions: the right to freedom of speech, information and opinion."

Heard in many arenas

Nobody embodies the cliché of an American more prosaically than Moore, of the XXL frame, the baseball cap and sneakers; the sloppy, loud, in-your-face delivery. But if he is quintessentially American, Moore has often found support for his ideas outside the United States.

The BBC offered to produce his first television series, "TV Nation," a TV newsmagazine spoof that focused on big business' exploitation of the little people, after it was rejected by NBC (which later picked it up), as well as his 1998 documentary "The Big One," about his cross-country book tour for 1996's "Downsize This!" The U.K.'s Channel Four produced the first season of his follow-up to "TV Nation," "The Awful Truth," and its Canadian producing partner Salter Street Films funded "Bowling for Columbine."

Moore is not without his critics on both sides of the Atlantic. But like those Americans who sympathize with his work, Europeans tend to begrudgingly forgive his shortcomings for the simple reason that he is one of the few loud, clear voices of the American left. The French daily Liberation called him "the hero of the leftist fight in the United States," and "Bowling for Columbine" "an anti-American diatribe." The Independent on Sunday wrote in a review of the film: "Moore's Achilles heel is this awful self-aggrandizing streak, his flaunting of plain-guy compassion.... 'Bowling for Columbine' is a big confused hectoring righteous mess, but it'll make you laugh a lot and chill your marrow even more."

On press night of "Michael Moore -- Live!" last November in slightly out-of-the-way Camden, the sympathetic audience -- which included actor Alan Rickman snorting it up a few rows back -- laughed, cheered and generally went along for the ride as Moore did his shtick: a whole skit about the things you can't bring on a post-Sept. 11 plane; real-time calls to fast-food joints in the Middle East to gather intelligence on Osama bin Laden. A call to the FBI switchboard, in which an operator had never heard of the Office of Homeland Security. He ate Doritos while sitting in a scruffy easy chair, with blown-up photos of a young W, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden and Tony Blair hanging behind him.

In a rather blatant exercise in what London's Observer called "national self-deprecation," he held an intelligence quiz in which he drafted two hapless audience members to the stage -- an American and a Brit -- and led them through a rigged series of faux-game show questions. At the end, he answered questions -- showing off his comic timing and gift for politically incorrect political correctness.

The Observer found his "tirades against the bombing of Afghanistan or the deaths of half a million Iraqi children from US bombs ... viscerally inspiring." But the review was critical of Moore's disparagement of the passengers of Sept. 11's hijacked planes for their white, middle-class complacency, and the parents of the Columbine students for not breaking through the police tape. His analysis "looks like a thoughtless over-simplification from the armchair of hindsight," the review said.

The Times of London went one step further: "The average American is not stupid; Michael Moore is."

Stupid or not, he definitely entertained the sellout crowds. "Michael Moore -- Live!" was a surprise success, says David Johnson, the show's British producer and the man responsible for bringing "Puppetry of the Penis" to the U.S. He hopes to use the box-office numbers to persuade reluctant New York theater owners to stage a version of the show, updated to address current events, on Broadway sometime this year.

A self-deprecating critic

Part of Moore's popularity abroad, cynics might point out, is that he flatters the wisdom and civility of other nations while confirming their worst suspicions about America. At the Cannes press conference for "Bowling for Columbine," a Canadian journalist respectfully objected to Moore's contention that all Canadians didn't lock their doors (in one scene in the film, he'd tested his theory by barging into several strangers' homes unannounced). But Moore deflected the comment, insisting that something in the Canadian "cultural DNA" made it a less fearful and violent country than its neighbor.

During the festival, Moore made foreign friends all around with his effusive thanks, his self-deprecating humor -- the press conference also felt like stand-up, with a forcefully charismatic Moore hardly in need of the microphone to amplify his booming voice.

After "Bowling for Columbine's" world premiere at Cannes, a reviewer for London's Guardian newspaper wrote that "both performances I've been to have ended with fervent applause and a great deal of earnest Europeans streaming back out into the foyer, their determination re-doubled and re-tripled never to agree with the American practice of spraying the nearest McDonald's with bullets before turning the gun on oneself."

Moore struck the Guardian's writer as "a lone figure in the American media mainstream, challenging gun culture -- a heresy in which the rest of Hollywood's pampered progressives have no interest. For most of them, there are no votes, and no ticket sales, in saying that guns aren't sexy. It's a pleasure to a hear a dissenting voice."

Part of Moore's appeal abroad may lie in the fact that he seems, unlike America's political leaders, to listen to foreign nations, to take them seriously. On his Web site, MichaelMoore.com, he has taken the highly unpopular step of defending the French.

In "A Letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush on the Eve of War," dated March 17, 2003, he writes: "We love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups.... But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us?" Quit complaining about the French, he urges, "and thank them for getting it right for once."

Moore also satisfies a voracious and profound European curiosity about the inner workings of the world's "hyperpower," and part of Europe's fascination with Moore undoubtedly stems from his ability to exploit the tantalizing notion that what's bad for America will one day be just as bad for the rest of the world.

For example: "There is nothing sadder than seeing leaders of other countries trying to mimic the leaders of our country," he writes in the foreword to the U.K. edition of "Stupid White Men." "America decides to bomb some country -- and your head of state joins right in .... We decide to eliminate the safety net for our poor, and your legislative bodies can't wait to start cutting numerous social services that have been in place for decades.... To see you in your countries start to beat up on those who are less fortunate, to make life more difficult for them, I'm convinced that this will be the unraveling of your soul."

Don't trade cheaper running shoes for school shootings and fewer civil liberties, he warns our friends around the globe. "Maybe there is still hope for you," he continues. "It may be too late for us, I dunno."
“Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art.” - Andy Warhol


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©brad

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2003, 09:15:52 AM »
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Documentarian Michael Moore will next focus on the relationship between President George W. Bush and the family of Osama bin Laden. As Moore tells Variety, "The primary thrust of the new film is what has happened to the country since Sept. 11, and how the Bush administration used this tragic event to push its agenda." The director's previous film, Bowling for Columbine, and its Oscar win for Best Documentary, helped ignite a bidding war, won by Mel Gibson's Icon Productions, for Fahrenheit 9/11.

According to Variety, Michael Moore has put a year's worth of research into the film. He'll finish it in time to be submitted for the 2004 Cannes Film Festival, and the documentary will be released in time for the presidential election that fall. (Variety)

Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2003, 09:51:05 AM »
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Quote from: cbrad4d
Documentarian Michael Moore will next focus on the relationship between President George W. Bush and the family of Osama bin Laden. As Moore tells Variety, "The primary thrust of the new film is what has happened to the country since Sept. 11, and how the Bush administration used this tragic event to push its agenda." The director's previous film, Bowling for Columbine, and its Oscar win for Best Documentary, helped ignite a bidding war, won by Mel Gibson's Icon Productions, for Fahrenheit 9/11.

According to Variety, Michael Moore has put a year's worth of research into the film. He'll finish it in time to be submitted for the 2004 Cannes Film Festival, and the documentary will be released in time for the presidential election that fall. (Variety)


 :kiss: ... :multi: ... :yabbse-grin: ... :yabbse-exclamation:
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Duck Sauce

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2003, 10:06:30 AM »
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I was kind of wondering how long it would take for him to start a war doc. I hope he doesnt go over the edge, this is sure to piss a lot of people off.

Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2003, 10:14:00 AM »
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Quote from: Duck Sauce
I hope he doesnt go over the edge


 :lol:
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budgie

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2003, 11:17:27 AM »
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Quote from: Ghostboy

Adrien Brody's speech was much more graceful, mature and powerful. But MM is a rabble-rouser, and he lived up to his reputation.

There's 'powerful' and 'powerful'. Who's the one giving people a pain in the ass? Fuck restraint!


However:
Quote from: MacGuffin
Whether it is the fictition of duct tape.

Tsk.

RegularKarate

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2003, 03:21:49 PM »
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Quote from: cbrad4d
Fahrenheit 9/11.


A+

Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2003, 08:46:54 PM »
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Michael Moore talks about his post-Oscar experiences on his website:    

It appears that the Bush administration will have succeeded in colonizing Iraq sometime in the next few days. This is a blunder of such magnitude -- and we will pay for it for years to come. It was not worth the life of one single American kid in uniform, let alone the thousands of Iraqis who have died, and my condolences and prayers go out to all of them.

So, where are all those weapons of mass destruction that were the pretense for this war? Ha! There is so much to say about all this, but I will save it for later.

What I am most concerned about right now is that all of you -- the majority of Americans who did not support this war in the first place -- not go silent or be intimidated by what will be touted as some great military victory. Now, more than ever, the voices of peace and truth must be heard. I have received a lot of mail from people who are feeling a profound sense of despair and believe that their voices have been drowned out by the drums and bombs of false patriotism. Some are afraid of retaliation at work or at school or in their neighborhoods because they have been vocal proponents of peace. They have been told over and over that it is not "appropriate" to protest once the country is at war, and that your only duty now is to "support the troops."

Can I share with you what it's been like for me since I used my time on the Oscar stage two weeks ago to speak out against Bush and this war? I hope that, in reading what I'm about to tell you, you'll feel a bit more emboldened to make your voice heard in whatever way or forum that is open to you.

When "Bowling for Columbine" was announced as the Oscar winner for Best Documentary at the Academy Awards, the audience rose to its feet. It was a great moment, one that I will always cherish. They were standing and cheering for a film that says we Americans are a uniquely violent people, using our massive stash of guns to kill each other and to use them against many countries around the world. They were applauding a film that shows George W. Bush using fictitious fears to frighten the public into giving him whatever he wants. And they were honoring a film that states the following: The first Gulf War was an attempt to reinstall the dictator of Kuwait; Saddam Hussein was armed with weapons from the United States; and the American government is responsible for the deaths of a half-million children in Iraq over the past decade through its sanctions and bombing. That was the movie they were cheering, that was the movie they voted for, and so I decided that is what I should acknowledge in my speech.

And, thus, I said the following from the Oscar stage:

"On behalf of our producers Kathleen Glynn and Michael Donovan (from Canada), I would like to thank the Academy for this award. I have invited the other Documentary nominees on stage with me. They are here in solidarity because we like non-fiction. We like non-fiction because we live in fictitious times. We live in a time where fictitious election results give us a fictitious president. We are now fighting a war for fictitious reasons. Whether it's the fiction of duct tape or the fictitious 'Orange Alerts,' we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you. And, whenever you've got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up."

Halfway through my remarks, some in the audience started to cheer. That immediately set off a group of people in the balcony who started to boo. Then those supporting my remarks started to shout down the booers. The L. A. Times reported that the director of the show started screaming at the orchestra "Music! Music!" in order to cut me off, so the band dutifully struck up a tune and my time was up. (For more on why I said what I said, you can read the op-ed I wrote for the L.A. Times, plus other reaction from around the country at my website)

The next day -- and in the two weeks since -- the right-wing pundits and radio shock jocks have been calling for my head. So, has all this ruckus hurt me? Have they succeeded in "silencing" me?

Well, take a look at my Oscar "backlash":

-- On the day after I criticized Bush and the war at the Academy Awards, attendance at "Bowling for Columbine" in theaters around the country went up 110% (source: Daily Variety/BoxOfficeMojo.com). The following weekend, the box office gross was up a whopping 73% (Variety). It is now the longest-running consecutive commercial release in America, 26 weeks in a row and still thriving. The number of theaters showing the film since the Oscars has INCREASED, and it has now bested the previous box office record for a documentary by nearly 300%.

-- Yesterday (April 6), "Stupid White Men" shot back to #1 on the New York Times bestseller list. This is my book's 50th week on the list, 8 of them at number one, and this marks its fourth return to the top position, something that virtually never happens.

-- In the week after the Oscars, my website was getting 10-20 million hits A DAY (one day we even got more hits than the White House!). The mail has been overwhelmingly positive and supportive (and the hate mail has been hilarious!).

-- In the two days following the Oscars, more people pre-ordered the video for "Bowling for Columbine" on Amazon.com than the video for the Oscar winner for Best Picture, "Chicago."

-- In the past week, I have obtained funding for my next documentary, and I have been offered a slot back on television to do an updated version of "TV Nation"/ "The Awful Truth."

I tell you all of this because I want to counteract a message that is told to us all the time -- that, if you take a chance to speak out politically, you will live to regret it. It will hurt you in some way, usually financially. You could lose your job. Others may not hire you. You will lose friends. And on and on and on.

Take the Dixie Chicks. I'm sure you've all heard by now that, because their lead singer mentioned how she was ashamed that Bush was from her home state of Texas, their record sales have "plummeted" and country stations are boycotting their music. The truth is that their sales are NOT down. This week, after all the attacks, their album is still at #1 on the Billboard country charts and, according to Entertainment Weekly, on the pop charts during all the brouhaha, they ROSE from #6 to #4. In the New York Times, Frank Rich reports that he tried to find a ticket to ANY of the Dixie Chicks' upcoming concerts but he couldn't because they were all sold out. (To read Rich's column from yesterday's Times, "Bowling for Kennebunkport," go here. He does a pretty good job of laying it all out and talks about my next film and the impact it could potentially have.) Their song, "Travelin' Soldier" (a beautiful anti-war ballad) was the most requested song on the internet last week. They have not been hurt at all -- but that is not what the media would have you believe. Why is that? Because there is nothing more important now than to keep the voices of dissent -- and those who would dare to ask a question -- SILENT. And what better way than to try and take a few well-known entertainers down with a pack of lies so that the average Joe or Jane gets the message loud and clear: "Wow, if they would do that to the Dixie Chicks or Michael Moore, what would they do to little ol' me?" In other words, shut the f--- up.

And that, my friends, is the real point of this film that I just got an Oscar for -- how those in charge use FEAR to manipulate the public into doing whatever they are told.

Well, the good news -- if there can be any good news this week -- is that not only have neither I nor others been silenced, we have been joined by millions of Americans who think the same way we do. Don't let the false patriots intimidate you by setting the agenda or the terms of the debate. Don't be defeated by polls that show 70% of the public in favor of the war. Remember that these Americans being polled are the same Americans whose kids (or neighbor's kids) have been sent over to Iraq. They are scared for the troops and they are being cowed into supporting a war they did not want -- and they want even less to see their friends, family, and neighbors come home dead. Everyone supports the troops returning home alive and all of us need to reach out and let their families know that.

Unfortunately, Bush and Co. are not through yet. This invasion and conquest will encourage them to do it again elsewhere. The real purpose of this war was to say to the rest of the world, "Don't Mess with Texas - If You Got What We Want, We're Coming to Get It!" This is not the time for the majority of us who believe in a peaceful America to be quiet. Make your voices heard. Despite what they have pulled off, it is still our country.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

cowboykurtis

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2003, 08:59:10 PM »
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the thing that kind of bothered me about bowling for columbine was it s inability to have an opinion. there was much emphasis put on sensationalist news broadcasting. if he doesnt think that he made a sensationalist documentary, he should look up the word in the dictionary. when it comes down to it micheal moore doesnt shit about anything -- no one knows know shit about anything. if micheal moore, or any of you can say that you know what this war is about, you're either lying or misinformed.
...your excuses are your own...

Jeremy Blackman

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« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2003, 09:02:07 PM »
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Quote from: cowboykurtis
no one knows know shit about anything. if micheal moore, or any of you can say that you know what this war is about, you're either lying or misinformed.


So knowledge is impossible, information is an illusion, ignorance is inevitable*, and life is meaningless?

*then how can you say that your whole theory about this is not ignorant?
"Hunger is the purest sin"

cowboykurtis

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2003, 09:17:24 PM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: cowboykurtis
no one knows know shit about anything. if micheal moore, or any of you can say that you know what this war is about, you're either lying or misinformed.


So knowledge is impossible, information is an illusion, ignorance is inevitable*, and life is meaningless?

*then how can you say that your whole theory about this is not ignorant?


my theory is referring to specific  issues that our government do not want to be public knowledge,. this is done in order to preserve a specific public "image". my "theory" was very cleary speaking about our government's motives for war.  when did i ever say that "information" all together is unobtainable making our life useless. if thats what you got out of my words -- read them again. you took my words, which were specified towards a very narrow issue, and turned them into heady philosophical banter. the reason why my theory isnt ignorant is, our media has to report the truth "as they know it." that's not the truth. the only people who know the truth about this war, are the people up top hitting the buttons.
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Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2003, 10:41:19 AM »
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Quote from: cowboykurtis
you took my words, which were specified towards a very narrow issue, and turned them into heady philosophical banter.


fair enough...

Quote from: cowboykurtis
the reason why my theory isnt ignorant is, our media has to report the truth "as they know it." that's not the truth.


..true...

Quote from: cowboykurtis
the only people who know the truth about this war, are the people up top hitting the buttons.


They might be the only people who know the whole truth, but that doesn't mean all of the information in every media source has no truth in it. Of course most of the media is biased, but saying that journalists can't figure anything out, so we can't know anything anyway, seems like a strange way to justify apathy.

Or are you just saying that we can know some truths, but since we can't know the complete truth, then it's not the truth at all?
"Hunger is the purest sin"

blu

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2003, 12:18:03 PM »
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fuck micheal moore.  

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

i actually believed the guy.  i loved bfc until I found out it is bullshit.

Jeremy Blackman

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michael moore: oscars, truths, and fictitions
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2003, 01:34:36 PM »
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Quote from: blu
fuck micheal moore.  

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

i actually believed the guy.  i loved bfc until I found out it is bullshit.


Interesting stuff. That proves that

1) he edited stuff down (the Heston speech) to make it more concise and to the point, and used Heston footage from multiple speeched (I never thought that all the Heston footage was one speech.. I don't see how that's a deception)

2) Moore exaggerated the particular use and intention of missiles in the Columbine plant of Lockheed Martin, which makes weapons of mass destruction and technologies to assist weapons of mass destruction.

3) The KKK is not synonymous with the NRA. (This is something that is jokingly suggested in the "I loves my gun" animation, when a KKK guys become NRA guys. Moore is known for jokingly suggesting things. And I mean, look at it, it's a cartoon.)

4) The kid who did the shooting Buell Elementary School in Michigan came from a troubled family that was involved with drugs.

5) The money that the U.S. gave $245 million in aid to the Taliban government was for "humanitarian aid" (Anyone who knows anything about international politics knows that humanitarian aid is not always used for humanitarian aid)

6) Moore's homicide statistics are selected from a particular time. (This site doesn't even know when Moore's statistics are from, and goes out of its way to find conflicting counts. Of course there will always be conflicting homicide counts from different organizations, and the FBI (one of its sources) is not exactly on top of every homicide in the United States.


And I don't know if I could really trust that website anyway, it's run by some conservative descendant of an 1800s Arizona law man ("The Hardys have been providing speedy justice in Arizona since 1871")...
"Hunger is the purest sin"

 

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