Author Topic: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours  (Read 5507 times)

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The Silver Bullet

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Re: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2004, 07:07:08 PM »
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That was probably the most unique take on Kubrick I've ever read. I really, really enjoyed it.

Out of interest though, Pubrick, do you think that all this was intentional or coincidental? Was the arc a conscious construction on Kubrick's part or something that just happened? And what's more, where do you think he would he have gone in his work post-Eyes Wide Shut? Had he not died, I mean. Surely he wouldn't have remained "in a dream," and the idea of a new "day" beginning is slightly unsatisfactory also.

And, finally, where do [or would have] his projected projects fit into this theory? Artificial Intelligence could easily have easily become the "dream" film, perhaps, and his Napoleon picture could have been the descent into night that Lyndon ultimately was, but still, I'm interested in your take on them personally.

Once again though, an excellent [and really unique] theory.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2004, 07:40:26 PM »
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Quote from: The Silver Bullet
Out of interest though, Pubrick, do you think that all this was intentional or coincidental? Was the arc a conscious construction on Kubrick's part or something that just happened?

It's kind of irrelevant. Kubrick discouraged biographical interpretation. Once the movie is out there, it's out there as something else. That said, the arc could be intentional or unconscious or somewhere in between, but I doubt it should be described as a "coincidence."
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The Silver Bullet

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Re: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2004, 08:15:11 PM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
It's kind of irrelevant. Kubrick discouraged biographical interpretation.

Irrelevance aside, I'd still like to know what P thinks. Kubrick strikes me as the sort of guy to whom the concept of a pre-meditated filmography might have seemed very attractive.

I was just asking "out of interest".
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2004, 09:28:01 PM »
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Just because it's irrelevant doesn't mean it's not interesting. I'd also like to know what P thinks.

He had a lot of time to think between productions, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was deliberate, but, like I said, I also wouldn't be surprised if it was a shade of unconscious behavior. But anything we say is speculation and doesn't really prove anything. With Kubrick, intention doesn't seem to enhance or weaken his movies (e.g. Paths of Glory & FMJ), because they're greater than him.
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The Silver Bullet

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Re: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2004, 03:12:48 AM »
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And the recent plethora of articles regarding the Kubrick estate [which, no doubt, have already been linked to] also suggest that Stan was the sort of guy to...well, you know...spend a lot of time thinking about such things.

Scorsese [or so I've read] is also very careful about the construction of his "ouvre". The exact details, like those that Pubrick has outlined for Kubrick, may [as you suggest] be more the handiwork of the subconscious than the conscious, but at the same time, the legacy that is their body of work is just as calculated as their tracking shots.

It's very interesting, I think, to look at things this way. Kubrick's filmography becomes a cohesive whole that is, in its own way, far greater than the sum of its parts. Kubrick's filmography itself becomes the masterpiece, almost more than any one of his films on its own.
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bigperm

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Re: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2004, 08:24:44 AM »
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Well put Pubrick. One of my favortie directors.
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Re: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2004, 12:44:00 AM »
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Quote from: The Silver Bullet
Out of interest though, Pubrick, do you think that all this was intentional or coincidental? Was the arc a conscious construction on Kubrick's part or something that just happened?

I don’t mean to devalue any ideas I have proposed, but as I said this is just one of many ways in which his films can be grouped. Once this is accepted, the question is “why does it all make sense”. I disagree with ur comment about the whole being more than the sum of its parts. I would say the truth is exactly the opposite: One must pay closer attention to the elemental parts now that he has safely set parameters. In this case, we see a mosaic, one would be mistaken to believe that the individual parts serve only to paint the larger,. This isn't so.

There is inherent truth throughout every single element of ANY picture u find meaning in. to illustrate this point conclusively, A single film has more meaning than the overall relationship, and furthermore, once scene has more meaning than the whole film. the most insightful things in a kubrick films are Single Moments (this is what matters in life too, isn't it). I’ve mentioned this privately to JB, the essence of Kubrick is not linear/one-dimensional, it is fractal. That explains how a person can follow a single thread beginning anywhere and find meaning throughout not only ONE of his films (say, Technology in 2001) but running through his whole repertoire. The fractal metaphor itself is yet another mesmerizing property of what kubrick presented on screens.

the nature of what the fuck Kubrick was doing is the question ur asking, and it's pointless to only ask it in terms of "the whole pattern". Abstractly, consider Memory and its similar fractal nature, I believe dreams have a fractal essence too.

Quote from: The Silver Bullet
And what's more, where do you think he would he have gone in his work post-Eyes Wide Shut? Had he not died, I mean. Surely he wouldn't have remained "in a dream," and the idea of a new "day" beginning is slightly unsatisfactory also.

as I mentioned in the small blurb line before my EWS description, he had already left space/time by then. this follows on to the next question..

Quote from: The Silver Bullet
And, finally, where do [or would have] his projected projects fit into this theory? Artificial Intelligence could easily have easily become the "dream" film, perhaps, and his Napoleon picture could have been the descent into night that Lyndon ultimately was.

Napoleon and AI were perfect for what had to follow, i'd call it a New Day. but before u think he's backtracking let me explain the nature of this new day. he was always concerned with "Things that are Forever" (all the subjects of his films, therefore are about sumthing which is forever applicable, things that are true about human nature.. masculinity, spiritual growth, choice, history, the afterlife, the total annihilation of virtue, femininity). now, after Clockwork Orange is when he really took off.

it can be said that after this point he was looking back, but only cos he was looking toward where the sun disappeared to. and after this he went looking deeper and deeper into the darkness until he found a new source of light, a catalyst for growth. this is where the New Day would be born and he found that in EWS. That is why every movie after Clork seems to overlap, the shining encapsulates Lyndon, FMJ covers the shining (and consequently lyndon). consider this image: The Shining is what it must look like to an outsider who does not know the madness (of darkness), all we see are faces on the wall.. thing seeping through. FMJ then treks further into the madness, it transcends fear by externalizing its source. EWS revels in fearlessness, in a dream u know nothing can hurt u but u are AWOKEN when the reality of danger is realised.

that's the turning point, EWS was the inner light he had been looking for. this is all an extension of what i was saying before if u remember, i said that the future is not born in light or darkness.. i think he found that it was born in Dreams - not coincidentally, EWS reflected every one of his works prior.

so now what we hav is AI and Napoleon, these two films that he was very enthusiastic about and close to developing, they were both epic and concluded with a child's toy (hav u read the Napoleon script?). in this New Day everything is forever, and his sense of it was so strong that i believe the final scene in EWS took place inside it.. or at least the prototype of it. that's the idea i've tried to flesh out in this post, without feeding u baby food. any move he made after EWS would encompass everything he's done, and be one step closer to tackling the question that plagued his genius mind until the final moment: "what happens next, when what happens next lasts forever"
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picolas

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Re: a timeline - kubrick's ouvre as 24 hours
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2004, 02:25:26 AM »
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:yabbse-cry:

EWS was the one i understood on first viewing as mega-genius, and it made me revisit everything again to find what i'd been missing. which was obviously a HHHhhhheckload. it singularly unlocked a good degree of Kubrick for me. so what i'm getting at is that you're absolutely right about it being a reflection of it all. it truly makes me yab es ee-cry at the level he was tip-toeing on that you mentioned. and i don't know the third of it yet. so thanks.

 

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