Author Topic: Atom Egoyan  (Read 13308 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SoNowThen

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
  • Respect: +9
    • 24/30 Cinema
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2003, 04:44:04 PM »
0
Quote from: godardian
Here in the US, you'd think a politically conservative Canadian is an extinct species, from the images we get. Socialized medicine, pacifism, lenient drug laws, French... that's what we see on the news about Canada.
Quote



EXACTLY. Aaarrgh, how I hate that image. Man, my goal is to make films that are fun again. I'd stay here to make them, but they're not gonna be cultural political shit. Just tell good stories, and do it in an exciting way. Geez.

Yeah, I'm conservative to the point of facism.... but in a cute sort of way.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 3733
  • Respect: +6
    • Trappings
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2003, 04:53:22 PM »
0
Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: godardian
Here in the US, you'd think a politically conservative Canadian is an extinct species, from the images we get. Socialized medicine, pacifism, lenient drug laws, French... that's what we see on the news about Canada.
Quote



EXACTLY. Aaarrgh, how I hate that image. Man, my goal is to make films that are fun again. I'd stay here to make them, but they're not gonna be cultural political shit. Just tell good stories, and do it in an exciting way. Geez.

Yeah, I'm conservative to the point of facism.... but in a cute sort of way.


I happen to think that there's no way of not revealing your own cultural and political leanings when you're creating something, though obviously, it's death to try to make them obvious or preach. It's more revelation by omission/inclusion; what you show and what you leave out tells the viewer something about the way you see the world. The way you depict the world- the "world" you create- in your film/book/song can't help having a viewpoint, right?

This is one of the reasons I think seventies films were so great. I totally see Taxi Driver and Nashville and Network and Klute and so on and on as being loaded with cultural and political observation, but they work because they make it juicy and entertaining. I suppose you could say the same for products of the ultraconservative eighties like Top Gun and Flashdance and Beverly Hills Cop and Rambo, which all reveal something horrible about the politically horrible eighties, though if we're to judge by that, the conservatives get pretty short shrift aesthetically.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
  • Respect: +9
    • 24/30 Cinema
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2003, 05:38:17 PM »
0
But when I say "cultural political" I mean it in the Canadian sense, which is: it has to take place somewhere SPECIFICALLY Canadian, like a Maritime fishery, or an igloo in Yukon, or a Prairie schoolhouse -- these are our cliches. Then, it has to reflect the politics of the Canadian Liberal party, not liberal -- mind you -- but Liberal (and we all know there's a difference). It's such a posturing, and it comes off as propaganda. The other type of Canadian cinema is the "cutting edge, boundaries pushing" low budget fare, which is usually nothing more than soft porn. You really can't imagine the frustration unless you've lived here, there's this prevailing attitude that we're the "cool intellectuals" to the US's "hayseed cowboys", which I guess means we have to make shitty films, music, and books. Hollywood may be cheesy, but at least it's produced some quality product that will stand the test of time. That's more than I can say for my country.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

SoNowThen

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
  • Respect: +9
    • 24/30 Cinema
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2003, 05:41:41 PM »
0
Oh... I just realized my "hayseed cowboy" comment may be misconstrued as anti-Bush, or something. This is not the case. This has been the popular asshole Canadian view of our Southern neighbors for a long time before. So you can't blame him for that (although I know there's people who will try).
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 3733
  • Respect: +6
    • Trappings
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2003, 05:43:18 PM »
0
Ah... I see. I can relate, having lived in Seattle for close to a year now. The cliches about Seattleites are gross, too. I'm not a coffee-addicted dirty hippie butt-rocker, but if I were to live up to the stereotype...

It is different from the outside, though. Some Canadian stuff really does seem cool and intellectual to me, though I try very hard not to stereotype an entire country the size of Canada. I always think of Atwood, Egoyan, and Kids in the Hall when I think of Canadian culture, though. And try not to think of Alanis Morrissette, Celine Dion, or Bryan Adams.

I liked The Five Senses a lot, too.   :oops:
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
  • Respect: +9
    • 24/30 Cinema
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2003, 05:48:53 PM »
0
HAhaha. Yeah, Bryan Adams sucks fucking BIG TIME.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

The Silver Bullet

  • The Ultimate Boon
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Respect: 0
    • http://esotericrabbit.blogspot.com
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2003, 07:26:37 PM »
0
Atwood is genius. The Blind Assassin is beautiful. I have nothing more to say. My input here is worthless.
RABBIT n. pl. rab·bits or rabbit[list=1]
  • Any of various long-eared, short-tailed, burrowing mammals of the family Leporidae.
  • A hare.
  • [/list:o][/size]

godardian

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 3733
  • Respect: +6
    • Trappings
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2003, 10:56:05 AM »
0
Quote from: The Silver Bullet
Atwood is genius. The Blind Assassin is beautiful. I have nothing more to say. My input here is worthless.


Not so, not so! I actually went to a Q&A with Atwood last night, where she was very, very funny (the interviewer was trying to be way too serious, which was a problem).

Choice Atwood quote: "When I was a young female Canadian writer in the early sixties, things were different. You felt the weight of all these 'genius' males- Hemingway, Faulkner- on you, and you were made to feel presumptuous. Now, there have been great women writers. Young women are surrounded by people and groups who will say nice things and encourage them. I'm thinking of starting a DIScouragement group." :lol:

I thought about asking about the Egoyan film of Blind Assassin, but decided it was too off topic.

Speaking of which, I'm sort of making this the de facto Canadian film thread with these discussions. I thought of creating a "Canadian film" thread separate, but the thought of SoNowThen's horrified reaction gave me pause.

Anyone seen Denys Arcand's Decline of the American Empire? Another Canadian film I think is marvelous. The one he did with Thomas Gibson was not so great, I thought.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
  • Respect: +9
    • 24/30 Cinema
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2003, 11:44:25 AM »
0
Horrified reaction, indeed.

Here's a couple names of the supposed "great Canadian films" I've seen:

Mon Oncle Antoine - an oldy, has quite a following in Quebec, I made it half way through and fell asleep.

Waydowntown - not too bad, fairly new, but par usual for Canada the acting is pretty bunk, and the payoff is dissapointing. But the cool thing about this one: one of the actors is from a short film of mine! He did this one first, but I saw it a couple years after mine was shot and had a good laugh at it. He plays a coffee vendor in this one. In mine he plays a crack addict beggar who pretends he is a crippled aids patient to try and scam money off people. I have such a optimistic view of humanity.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Mesh

  • The Magic Flight
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
  • Respect: +3
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2003, 04:15:43 PM »
0
Quote from: godardian

I always think of Atwood, Egoyan, and Kids in the Hall when I think of Canadian culture, though. And try not to think of Alanis Morrissette, Celine Dion, or Bryan Adams.


Lately, I've been associating Canada with the Godspeed You! Black Emperor/Constellation records politico-aesthetic (made that word up mahself!) and with the band Rush.

Also, isn't Neil Young Canadian?  That ain't so bad...

godardian

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 3733
  • Respect: +6
    • Trappings
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2003, 04:21:12 PM »
0
Quote from: Mesh


Lately, I've been associating Canada with the Godspeed You! Black Emperor/Constellation records politico-aesthetic (made that word up mahself!) and with the band Rush.

Also, isn't Neil Young Canadian?  That ain't so bad...


Yeah! Yeah!!!!
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Mesh

  • The Magic Flight
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
  • Respect: +3
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2003, 04:27:32 PM »
0
Quote from: godardian

Yeah! Yeah!!!!


The Band were pretty much Canadian, too.

SoNowThen

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
  • Respect: +9
    • 24/30 Cinema
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2003, 04:27:37 PM »
0
Yes, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell are out finest examples. I will forever bow to the brilliance that is Joni. But they moved and did their best work out of our country anyway.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

SoNowThen

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
  • Respect: +9
    • 24/30 Cinema
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2003, 04:28:21 PM »
0
Y'know how people accuse Woody Allen of being a self-hating Jew? Well, I'm a self-hating Canadian.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Mesh

  • The Magic Flight
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
  • Respect: +3
Atom Egoyan
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2003, 04:30:32 PM »
0
Quote from: SoNowThen
Yes, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell are out finest examples.


Dude....Anne Murray.  Anne fuckin' Murray.




 

DMCA & Copyright | Terms & Conditions | Privacy Policy