Author Topic: IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)  (Read 7635 times)

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Jeremy Blackman

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« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 12:58:44 PM by Jeremy Blackman »
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modage

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2005, 09:33:56 AM »
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great article.  i think it accomplishes the purpose of the IN DEFENSE OF thing by actually making me want to take another look at the movie.  good job.  :yabbse-thumbup:
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Jeremy Blackman

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2005, 11:18:19 AM »
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This article made me have second thoughts about the depth of the film.

But still, the level of subversiveness that Alexandro suggests seems like a stretch to me. Is there any evidence that Scorsese really indented to criticize capitalism, etc?
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Pubrick

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2005, 12:13:38 PM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Is there any evidence that Scorsese really indented to criticize capitalism, etc?

i'm sure there is a famous quote to support what i'm about to say..

i don't think anyone can answer that, but i'll try anyway. as is well known among artists, a lot of them say "i didn't think about it that much". this isn't to mean they didn't intend for their work to hav meaning, rather their meaning is inherent in the conscious process of going with their instincts.

so what we see here is scorsese at the top of his game. in his earlier days the apparent obviousness of his meaning was a symptom of his youth, he hadn't integrated his philosophies well enuff so that they would go easily undetected. in other words, he would think about his meaning more, and consequently this would be reflected in what critics now perceive as a "purer" movie.

to put this into context with the aviator in particular, as with all great artists who get better with age, i would wager that scorsese continues to think less about the meaning of his films and trust his own instinct --- ultimately, and this is my point, the essence of his own vision must meet the essence of the story.

this after all is a story about a person, who lived in pursuit of his dreams, however implausible, and encountered inevitable pitfalls. scorsese's touch is to find redemption in this character, and he finds it in hughes' essence: the embodiment of the capitalist ideal, as a reflection of the human spirit.
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Jeremy Blackman

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2005, 12:31:21 PM »
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So the author of a film is not the author of its meaning?

When I saw The Aviator I definitely didn't say to myself "this is Scorsese at the top of his game" (not that I'm a big Scorsese fan anyway).

This movie really didn't excite me in the way that it seems it should have. Maybe the Oscarness overwhelmed me. It didn't seem like a movie that I should try to find any subversive meaning in. Maybe I'm comparing this with Dogville too much, where you know something is being said.
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Pubrick

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2005, 12:43:16 PM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
It didn't seem like a movie that I should try to find any subversive meaning in.

this is sumone who found subversive meaning in HULK.
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atticus jones

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2005, 01:16:08 PM »
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Quote from: Pubrick
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Is there any evidence that Scorsese really indented to criticize capitalism, etc?

i'm sure there is a famous quote to support what i'm about to say..



maybe...

"just when you think you know how it's going, some other possibility shows up and it gets even better" nils ekstrom -business owner

or

"I dont want to live-I want to love first and live incidentally"
zelda fitgerald -writer

or

"choose well...your choice is brief and yet endless" ella winter -journalist

or

"nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world" francis church -editor

or

"that which is loved is always beautiful" norwegian proverb

then again...maybe not
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SHAFTR

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2005, 01:26:22 PM »
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Quote from: atticus jones
Quote from: Pubrick
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Is there any evidence that Scorsese really indented to criticize capitalism, etc?

i'm sure there is a famous quote to support what i'm about to say..



maybe...

"just when you think you know how it's going, some other possibility shows up and it gets even better" nils ekstrom -business owner

or

"I dont want to live-I want to love first and live incidentally"
zelda fitgerald -writer

or

"choose well...your choice is brief and yet endless" ella winter -journalist

or

"nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world" francis church -editor

or

"that which is loved is always beautiful" norwegian proverb

then again...maybe not


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Get into my car"
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It's about communism.
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Alexandro

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2005, 11:30:21 PM »
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thanks for the comments. about the capitalism thing, it is something I infered first but then after that particular scorsese quote about the ending ("the future of our country, of our world even") i kinda took it for real. even if it's indirect, if Hughes represents anything ideologically, is capitalism.

On the other hand. Scorsese has some background on this things, apart from Taxi Driver. Th ending in Good Fellas is Henry Hill basicly saying that the american way of life (the suburbs, the picket fences, getting the paper every morning) is "living the rest of my days like a schmuck". And in Gangs of New York, there's that great scene with Daniel Day Lewis wraped in the american flag saying that he's stayed alive to 43 years old because of "fear", the symbolism there is pretty obvious, i think.

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2005, 10:04:54 PM »
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My favorite part was your discussion of the ending. Honestly, the "the way of the future line" seemed to serve as a bridge between where Scorsese was ending the movie and the rest of Hughes' life for the audience. Not seeing the depths of his dementia later on, but being told that what we're seeing is the way of the future, it seemed like a very interesting way to end a film, and pretty fucking cool too.

I like your analysis of his childhood dreams and the ending too.
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SHAFTR

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2005, 02:37:27 AM »
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Scorsese is at his best when he is at his most subjective.  The fact that Scorsese uses subjectivity to enter the psychology of Hughes seperates The Aviator from other big hollywood pictures.

Enjoyable read, it makes me want to get started on my In Defense (although I just posted 10 mins ago that I wouldn't be able to do it).

EDIT: Also, I wonder what the film would have been like had it been Mann as director.
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JG

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IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2005, 03:37:54 PM »
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This article is a prime example of why the Green Screen can be a great thing.  This article was really well written, and I'm probably going to be picking up the Aviator soon to watch it again.

It's wierd, after I first saw Gangs of New York I loved it, and then I slowly and slowly started like it less.  I didn't like the Aviator at first, but I'm starting to appreciate it more and more.  This was a convincing article.

Lets do this Green Screen article.

mutinyco

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Re: IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2005, 12:46:54 PM »
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I'm not sure Hughes represented American capitalism. I think Juan Trippe of Pan Am more personified that, with his use of monopolistic muscle backed by hand-picked lawmakers. Hughes, if anything, represented America's independent, innovative soul -- something which we've lost.
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Alexandro

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Re: IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2005, 06:54:23 PM »
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Maybe Hughes represents american capitalism back when it had an innovative soul. On the dvd commetary (well, in some interview that the dvd people wants to pass as commetary) Scorsese claims that he sees the story of The Aviator as the story of the Icharus (is this well spelled?), the connection being this character who is given wings to fly and escape from the minotaur, but when he gets them he flies with these wings made of wax and they melt cause he flew too close to the sun, and in the end the monster he was running away from is himself.

The Aviator gets better each time, I think it has one of the best endings in years.

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Re: IN DEFENSE OF THE AVIATOR (Alexandro)
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2005, 01:42:11 PM »
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I think it has one of the best endings in years.

totally. i get goosebumps everytime i remember it.
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