Author Topic: Lost (spoilers)  (Read 287578 times)

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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1935 on: January 15, 2017, 01:03:29 AM »
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I hate to be a contrarian, but I think the Desmond/Penny content can get a bit overwrought.

I still like it, and "The Constant" is great (I gave it a 10), but I don't agree with the semi-popular belief that Desmond and Penny are the soul of Lost. I'm not sure they quite pulled off what they were ostensibly going for — an epic romance that conquers space and time.

Desmond and Penny sometimes read to me as playing structural roles in the show. (At worst, Penny herself can resemble a macguffin.)

But Jack and Kate read as flesh and blood characters with explosive chemistry and an existential connection that seems to transcend earthly concepts of friendship or romance. In fact, when they are together and engaged off-island, rather than an end-point it feels like just one hat they're trying on in their eternal journey. In some moments they even achieve this intense look of recognition as if they remember each other from a past life. (For example, 14:40 in "I Do.")

Perhaps it has something to do with Matthew Fox and Evangeline Lilly being the best actors on the show. I don't know if that's controversial, but I truly believe it.

Watch "Something Nice Back Home" and "I Do" and "316" and see if you agree.
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polkablues

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1936 on: January 15, 2017, 02:05:31 AM »
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Yeah, I never once got the sense throughout the series that Jack and Kate had any sort of realistic connection beyond being two pretty people who got stranded on an island together. I'm a much bigger proponent of Kate/Sawyer and Jack/Juliet.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1937 on: January 15, 2017, 10:27:43 AM »
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Wow. I could not disagree more.

Many fans feel exactly the way you do, though. It's an interesting divide.
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Kal

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1938 on: January 15, 2017, 12:10:38 PM »
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Kate & Sawyer and Jack & Juliet are the logical options because of their personalities and backgrounds. First there is the fact that Jack & Kate meet first and have a lot of forced-chemistry moments because they spend so many times 'leading' together (and she keeps following Jack every time he says not to follow him). Sawyer at first is played as this total asshole that won't care about anyone else.

But as characters develop, you can see Kate & Sawyer are very much alike. And you can see Jack & Juliet are very much alike, not just because they are doctors, but because they are obsessed with "trying to fix things" or "be in control" even though neither one has control.

I have always rooted for Jack & Kate though because it was clear that it would never really happen. That is why "Something Nice Back Home" is great and heartbreaking, because you get to see a glimpse of what that connection could be and get Jack loses his shit again.

The Sawyer & Juliet dynamic also seems forced at first, but by the end of "LaFleur" you believe it. And it's another situation similar to "Something Nice Back Home" because it seems like they are finally happy and have a great life and purpose, and it all goes to hell from there. Sawyer never forgot about Kate, and she is now back in the picture, but that doesn't make him love Juliet any less (and the episodes after that prove it).

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1939 on: January 15, 2017, 12:47:37 PM »
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I agree. And I'll take that a bit further. Kate and Sawyer are actually too much alike to ever be long-term partners. You can see this even in the episode where they have sex in the cage ("I Do") and then in the following episodes when it's crystal clear that she was never going to meet Sawyer's level of commitment. It's a bit heartbreaking to see how crushed and frustrated he is, but it also feels inevitable. Equally inevitable as Kate & Jack's romance being doomed.

The thing that almost transpires between Jack and Juliet in Season 3, I think, is probably the least convincing romance in the entire show. That's when the love triangle (quadrangle at that point) actually starts to feel forced and kind of ridiculous. The scenes with them laughing together are stagey and a little embarrassing, honestly. (Then of course we find out it's a bit of a misunderstanding — they were being secretive because of their secret plan to go to war with the Others.)
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1940 on: March 03, 2017, 06:13:16 AM »
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There's a Masterclass with Lindelof in Paris, I'll go. Do you have questions I could ask in a Q&A? It's in April. They'll also show the first two episodes of the last season of The Leftovers before they air.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1941 on: March 03, 2017, 11:15:16 AM »
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Oh my. I will have to think of something.
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1942 on: April 08, 2017, 11:34:09 AM »
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The masterclass is saturday. And I see the episodes thursday! It's exciting because, except the fact that they'll go to Australia, I have no idea what to expect—and it's one of the many joys of The Leftovers...

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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1943 on: April 08, 2017, 11:52:31 AM »
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Given the chance, this is probably what I would ask Lindelof:

"Do you know how great the Lost finale actually is? Do you realize how deeply, thoroughly, genuinely satisfying it was for many, many Lost fans? Can I give you a hug?"

But if you don't feel comfortable saying that on my behalf... I would ask what it's like grappling with the supernatural in The Leftovers. It seems like he enjoys pushing up against those boundaries of what can be rationally explained. And occasionally The Leftovers seems to cross that line. How does he approach that?
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1944 on: April 08, 2017, 12:12:08 PM »
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That's a good question about The Leftovers! I was worried that they would cross a line in season 2 but it worked. I don't know how. It just did.

And if they give me a mic I'll also say how satisfying the Lost finale is for many fans.
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RegularKarate

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1945 on: April 08, 2017, 12:30:19 PM »
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And if they give me a mic I'll also say how satisfying the Lost finale is for many fans.

and then tag it with "But for most, it was just as infuriating as The Leftovers is and how do you sleep at night knowing that people keep watching The Leftovers even though we know it stinks?"

Drenk

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1946 on: April 08, 2017, 12:33:00 PM »
+1
I do hate the Lost finale (I mean, the issue is the whole last season for me) but I love The Leftovers! I can't be the voice of all viewers!
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polkablues

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1947 on: April 08, 2017, 01:13:57 PM »
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I also hate Lost finale, love Leftovers. I'm pretty sure RK is the first person I've ever heard express dissatisfaction with The Leftovers.
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RegularKarate

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1948 on: April 08, 2017, 01:30:05 PM »
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I'm pretty sure RK is the first person I've ever heard express dissatisfaction with The Leftovers.

I know plenty of people that also dislike The Leftovers, but here's the deal, I'm still going to finish watching it.
The last episode of last season cemented that this is more Lost to come and it was infuriating and I threw my hands into the air and yelled "That's it! I'm out!", but here I am, ready for season three.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1949 on: August 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM »
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Evangeline Lilly in a recent interview:


Quote
“In season 3, I’d had a bad experience on set with being basically cornered into doing a scene partially naked, and I felt I had no choice in the matter,” she tells me. “I was mortified and I was trembling, and when it finished I was crying my eyes out and had to go on and do another very formidable and strong scene immediately after.”

She continues: “So in season 4, another scene came up where Kate was undressing and I fought very hard to have that scene be under my control, and I failed to control it again. So, I said. ‘That’s it – no more. You can write whatever you want, I won’t do it. I will never take my clothes off on this show again’ – and I didn’t.”

The first nude scene she's referring to is unfortunately in "I Do" (305), one of my very favorite episodes of Lost, which I talked about several times on the last 2 pages. Kate basically has a nude sex scene with Sawyer in a cage, which is definitely the type of thing that should require the actress's full consent.

I'm actually not sure what the season 4 scene is.

There was a joint response statement by Abrams, Lindelof, Bender, and Cuse:

Quote
Our response to Evie’s comments this morning in the media was to immediately reach out to her to profoundly apologise for the experience she detailed while working on LOST. We have not yet connected with her, but remain deeply and sincerely sorry. No person should ever feel unsafe at work. Period.

Equally illuminating are Evangeline Lilly's problems with Kate's character, which I have to say are kind of hard to disagree with:

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“I always thought she was obnoxious,” she says. “Not at the beginning – at the beginning, she was kind of cool. But as the show went on, I thought she became more and more predictable. I felt that my character went from being autonomous – really having her own story, journey and agendas – to chasing two men around the island. That irritated the shit out of me.”

Quote
“I wanted her to be better because she was an icon for strength and for women. I think I tried very hard to take what I was given and always find the way to show that strength, to have her own thoughts and to take moments I thought might be quite whiny and somehow make them... not whiny.”

Quote
“I’m not opposed to having romance in a woman’s life. I’m one of those people who has never been able to be single, so there’s nothing wrong with women’s lives being characterised by their relationships. But there was this eventual lack of dimension to what was going on with her. It was just [mock gasps] ‘Jack!” “Sawyer!’”

I've always strongly felt that Jack & Kate only really work because of those actors, and this seems to further validate that view.

It is too bad that Kate didn't get more to do in the show. She never quite became the heroic figure that might have been. Her best scenes and moments usually took place off-island, peaking in Season 4 I would say.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

 

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