Author Topic: modern times  (Read 2599 times)

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mutinyco

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« on: April 10, 2004, 12:37:58 AM »
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Is everybody having fun watching Full Metal Jacket on TV all the time right now? Those who didn't get it in relation to Vietnam now have the opportunity to get it with Iraq.
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Pubrick

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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2004, 12:56:11 AM »
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Strangelove has more modern parallels, i've found.
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mutinyco

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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2004, 02:36:19 PM »
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I think it did for a while when this was really about "nations". Maybe North Korea, Iran, etc. But I think we're now dealing with the concept of superpower vs. guerilla. I think that's where FMJ was. I think that's what's going on in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East now.

Not to knock the good Dr., of course...
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mutinyco

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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2004, 11:18:19 PM »
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The lack of response to this thread is a pretty good example of how little people here get Kubrick's films.
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Pubrick

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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2004, 11:36:30 PM »
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it's true that not many ppl get his movies, but the death of this thread has more to do with ur inability to offer any real theme to talk about.

the parallels with FMJ are superficial. war is always relevant and i would hardly call what is going on now anything special. the fact is if u can only get FMJ when there's a war on tv, then u don't get FMJ at all.

the parallels with strangelove are about Fear as a government tool, the paranoia of nuclear annihilation which i think ppl are trying to be scared about now but which were totally discredited in strangelove. the extreme patriotism blinding a person to rationality, is another relevant theme.

but u know, this parallels thing is sumthing i made up cos ur original post was only about "getting" sumthing u didn't bother getting into. so that's prolly why no one replied, they didn't get you.
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mutinyco

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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2004, 03:56:19 PM »
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I don't think FMJ is a "general" war film. I think Paths of Glory is more of that. Dr. Strangelove is still relevant, a fact made plain in PBS's recent documentary about 9/11.

What I think FMJ did, in relation to the other films about Vietnam, and why it's relevant now, is it depicted the great superpower vs. the determined individual. As far back as the early '70s Kubrick was aware that the future of modern warfare was going to be centered around terrorism. Strangelove was about having faith in a system -- a rigid system designed by 2 nations called MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) -- and that system no longer exists. Our greatest fears are no longer a deranged general (human error) ordering a nuclear attack, but of deranged renegades getting hold of these weapons to use against us either directly or through ransom. What we're dealing with now is the result of Reagan's decision to "defeat" the other side.

The parallels between FMJ and Iraq are perfect. The leadership of our country believes we're there for a greater good, but they're oblivious to actual field conditions. So it's left to some pretty unintelligent folks to carry out missions against poor indiginous peoples who are essentially using us. No matter what "good" we think we're doing there, they really don't want us there. And no matter how well trained we are or how much firepower we have, the determined individual is all it takes to destroy our resolve. Their belief in their cause is stronger than ours.

As well, both Vietnam and Iraq were predecated on false information. In Vietnam, there was the Gulf of Tonkin. In Iraq, there was WMD. Both were designed around idiotic philosophies -- the domino theory and Bush's scary crusade.

Bush has the ignorant belief that "freedom" is a gift from God and it's his duty to spread this through any means necessary. I think Kubrick best reflected the hollowness of America's policy at the end of FMJ, where the troops are singing The Mickey Mouse Club theme against the burning backdrop of Hue. That really said it all. It's not freedom. It's simple-minded sheep thinking on the part of America -- destroying ancient civilizations to make way for assembly line consumerism.
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Mesh

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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2004, 02:30:55 PM »
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:idea: -- Full Metal Jacket is like Psycho set in Vietnam.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2004, 02:42:41 PM »
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Full Metal Jacket is like German opera performed on a kazoo.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

The Disco Kid

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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2004, 06:56:32 PM »
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I dont think FMJ really applies very well in the specific sense to the situation we currently find ourselves in. Nor does Platoon, Deer Hunter, or any other Vietnam war movie for that matter. They are relevant only in the general war sense, but thats where the similarities end. There is a movie, however, that I think applies almost perfectly to the current conflict.

"The goddam bugs whacked us, Johnny."
Starship Troopers is a movie that fits the current War On Terror like a glove. It also one that fits various and even contradictory interpretations, very much like our present situation. Though Im sure you may laugh at first, if you actually rewatch this movie I think youll agree that the parallels are uncanny. In fact, it appears this film was far more prophetic than anyone really imagined, and perhaps it’s time that it was reevaluated. Underneath the campy, FX laden soap opera, there’s a lot more going on, and on a far greater scope,  than most people give it credit for. Rather than going into a thorough analysis, I will leave it at that. Rent Starship Troopers.

Also, on a sidenote, I defy anyone to argue that Doogie Hauser is not, indeed, Quentin Tarantino's evil doppelganger.

mutinyco

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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2004, 09:21:45 AM »
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I've seen Starship Troopers. I still don't get what the big deal is. There's a small elite academic group that worships it. I think if it had ended midway through and they're all dead, it would've been good.

But FMJ is quite similar to the present situation. Especially as we're now realizing how dehumanized the Americans have become. The thing about FMJ is that it wasn't really about Vietnam. Most people involved will tell you it was about war in general. It that sense, it's like were on a loop, and this last generation born well after Vietnam has lost its lessons.
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mutinyco

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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2004, 09:59:46 PM »
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So, as I was saying...it continues. This, in essence is what Joker did at the end of FMJ. And as I said before, he has committed a war crime. For those who don't watch the news, this is from the BBC:

US INVESTIVATES FALLUJA KILLING

The US military is looking into whether an American marine in Falluja shot dead a severely wounded Iraqi insurgent at point-blank range.

Television footage shows US soldiers entering a building as injured prisoners lie on the floor.

The soldier, from the 3rd battalion of the US marines, has been removed from the field and faces possible charges.

US-led forces said they have now gained overall control in Falluja, trapping rebels in the south of the city.

The images of the alleged point-blank shooting of an Iraqi insurgent were taken by an NBC reporter embedded with the US troops in the Sunni city under assault.

The BBC's James Robbins says the incident could prove highly damaging and that the US military will need to answer key questions about whether the rules of engagement were broken during the incident.

It must explain, he says, whether wounded combatants were abandoned, or killed, illegally.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

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