Author Topic: City of God  (Read 39651 times)

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pete

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« Reply #135 on: January 02, 2004, 09:27:06 PM »
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it's a political movie simply because people are wondering the hows and the whys, and that there's even a debate about if there is a how and the why or not.  people don't talk about the hows and the whys in the world of t3 or pirates of carribean.
I don't think city of god needs to bear any responsibility to "investigate" just because its subject matter (kids running the slum) is a bit intriguing.  It's told from an authoritative, insider's point of view, mostly without much reference to the outside world, and his investigation can only go as far as all that the character's experienced.  And in that sense, he's done as much investigation as he could (giving the backstories and histories to all the major changes in the City of God), but he's just a kid in the slum trying to get out, the hows and the whys aren't his problem.  They're the problem of foreign eyes after they've listened to his side of the story.
To accuse this film of being "apolitical" or "exploitative" is like accusing Lord of the Flies for being apolitical and exploitative.  That book is missing all the things Gold Trumpet is accusing City of God of missing.
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Jeremy Blackman

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« Reply #136 on: January 02, 2004, 09:29:15 PM »
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Quote from: chuckhimselfo
beat this ...



That's great... and a better representation of what the movie really is.
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Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #137 on: January 03, 2004, 12:44:38 PM »
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Quote from: pete
it's a political movie simply because people are wondering the hows and the whys, and that there's even a debate about if there is a how and the why or not.  people don't talk about the hows and the whys in the world of t3 or pirates of carribean.


I never liked that argument. Its rests judgement of art not on art but on the people reacting to it, which couldn't be more untrustworthy. Trash films, like Matrix: Reloaded, have been given validity because of this. People wouldn't talk about the whys and hows of T3 or Pirates, but even those films didn't take themselves serious. Just think of the number of bad films that do take themselves serious and could allow people to take the same jump into discussion with something like Matrix: Reloaded. Umberto Eco labeled this argument as one of the most basic in over interpretation because it has nothing to do with the work itself.

Quote from: pete
I don't think city of god needs to bear any responsibility to "investigate" just because its subject matter (kids running the slum) is a bit intriguing.  It's told from an authoritative, insider's point of view, mostly without much reference to the outside world, and his investigation can only go as far as all that the character's experienced.  And in that sense, he's done as much investigation as he could (giving the backstories and histories to all the major changes in the City of God), but he's just a kid in the slum trying to get out, the hows and the whys aren't his problem.  They're the problem of foreign eyes after they've listened to his side of the story.


I think you're being much too nice to this film. I don't believe this film is simply documenting what is taking place, but using the story and history as canvas for an explosive film that doesn't get outside what is already general structure to Hollywood. The film in its story is quite comparable to Goodfellas and even that film was a Hollywood-esque film for its director. With this, stories and truths to what really happened are made quite flexible so it can fit the stylistic mold this director wants the film to take. I think this film is quite brutal and honest, but within a mold that is packaged too nicely for just documenting what it knows. It would have been a documentary instead to get all the history in or a simple story film to get integrity to really conveying the feeling of this place.

cron

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« Reply #138 on: January 03, 2004, 03:13:20 PM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Quote from: pete
it's a political movie simply because people are wondering the hows and the whys, and that there's even a debate about if there is a how and the why or not.  people don't talk about the hows and the whys in the world of t3 or pirates of carribean.


I never liked that argument. Its rests judgement of art not on art but on the people reacting to it, which couldn't be more untrustworthy. Trash films, like Matrix: Reloaded, have been given validity because of this. People wouldn't talk about the whys and hows of T3 or Pirates, but even those films didn't take themselves serious. Just think of the number of bad films that do take themselves serious and could allow people to take the same jump into discussion with something like Matrix: Reloaded. Umberto Eco labeled this argument as one of the most basic in over interpretation because it has nothing to do with the work itself.

Quote from: pete
I don't think city of god needs to bear any responsibility to "investigate" just because its subject matter (kids running the slum) is a bit intriguing.  It's told from an authoritative, insider's point of view, mostly without much reference to the outside world, and his investigation can only go as far as all that the character's experienced.  And in that sense, he's done as much investigation as he could (giving the backstories and histories to all the major changes in the City of God), but he's just a kid in the slum trying to get out, the hows and the whys aren't his problem.  They're the problem of foreign eyes after they've listened to his side of the story.


I think you're being much too nice to this film. I don't believe this film is simply documenting what is taking place, but using the story and history as canvas for an explosive film that doesn't get outside what is already general structure to Hollywood. The film in its story is quite comparable to Goodfellas and even that film was a Hollywood-esque film for its director. With this, stories and truths to what really happened are made quite flexible so it can fit the stylistic mold this director wants the film to take. I think this film is quite brutal and honest, but within a mold that is packaged too nicely for just documenting what it knows. It would have been a documentary instead to get all the history in or a simple story film to get integrity to really conveying the feeling of this place.



the movie  like, kicks ass.  word, dawgs.
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pete

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« Reply #139 on: January 03, 2004, 06:00:55 PM »
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gold trumpet- I like your point about matrix series viewed as political simply because fanboys read too deeply into it.  But that is a different case entirely, City of God is political because YOU, Gold Trumpet, whose opinion I respect, wonder about the hows and the whys.  so I'm not resting the judgment of art on the people's reaction, but rather the artist's intention, as evident in another person who "gets it"'s reaction.
And it sounds like you disliked the City of God the same reason I disliked Fight Club and American Beauty, about the "Hollywood edge" that is predicatably unpredictable, if that makes any sense.  But I see City of God more as using the eye-candy techniques to get the stories out there, so that people first of all, will want to see it and secondly, it provides the story relevancy to the rest of the world that wouldn't normally give a shit about what happens in a Brazillian slum during the 60s 70s and the 80s.  Children killing children in a newsport or even a documentary like Bowling for Columbine will invariably seem distant to most of the viewers, that's why the original City of God embraced a novel format, and the film embraces a narrative format, otherwise it'll always seem like a news piece.  I think the story is much more brutal than anything Hollywood or any "anti-Hollywood-Hollywood" films like a Danny Boyle picture of an Arnofski picture.  This movie goes out of its way to embrace a hip sensibility, because it wants people to see something they'd never otherwise see in a movie.
It is much easier to identify with a fictional insecure adolescent character than an actual inhabitant of a distant ghetto (or even ghettos next to your neighborhood).
But I do understand where you're coming from and understand that arguments probalby can't charm you into liking this movie, even though I hope you'd give it another chance.
“Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot.”
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Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #140 on: January 04, 2004, 11:27:33 AM »
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Quote from: pete
gold trumpet- I like your point about matrix series viewed as political simply because fanboys read too deeply into it.  But that is a different case entirely, City of God is political because YOU, Gold Trumpet, whose opinion I respect, wonder about the hows and the whys.  so I'm not resting the judgment of art on the people's reaction, but rather the artist's intention, as evident in another person who "gets it"'s reaction.


I don't know if I ever said I wondered about the whys and hows in this movie, but always said the film really gave none. Its achievement (for me) is really superficial. And even if I did wonder about the whys and hows, I am no authoritive figure to end any discussion. Explanation of the film and how it is political is still needed.


Quote from: pete
And it sounds like you disliked the City of God the same reason I disliked Fight Club and American Beauty, about the "Hollywood edge" that is predicatably unpredictable, if that makes any sense.  But I see City of God more as using the eye-candy techniques to get the stories out there, so that people first of all, will want to see it and secondly, it provides the story relevancy to the rest of the world that wouldn't normally give a shit about what happens in a Brazillian slum during the 60s 70s and the 80s.


I think saying the film uses the eye-candy techniques to make the film relevant and accessable to modern movie goers is translating the subject in the most superficial way. To really make it relevant and accessable would be to make the humanistic concerns of the slums understandable for modern movie goers.

Quote from: pete
But I do understand where you're coming from and understand that arguments probalby can't charm you into liking this movie, even though I hope you'd give it another chance.


But, I do like this film! I've been the biggest supporter of this film through out this entire thread and it is by far the best film of 2003. Thing is, I am also fighting what I believe is over interpretation by a lot of other people. My stance on the film it is by far the best explosian of filmmaking in many years and provides one of the most harrowing experiences I've ever had just watching a film. I believe the greatness of the film is in the effect it gives just from viewing it and not looking at it in depth like other art films.

modage

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« Reply #141 on: January 07, 2004, 11:32:00 PM »
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Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Pubrick

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« Reply #142 on: January 07, 2004, 11:50:27 PM »
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dvd's been around for like a year now.

oh right, i'm the one ahead this time. strange feeling.
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pete

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« Reply #143 on: January 08, 2004, 09:06:22 AM »
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oops.  that's great that you liked it.  I don't really examine it too deeply either, I still think it's a bit more compassionate and less exploitative than Lord of the Flies, but hey, as long as you like it, man.

Quote from: The Gold Trumpet

But, I do like this film! I've been the biggest supporter of this film through out this entire thread and it is by far the best film of 2003. Thing is, I am also fighting what I believe is over interpretation by a lot of other people. My stance on the film it is by far the best explosian of filmmaking in many years and provides one of the most harrowing experiences I've ever had just watching a film. I believe the greatness of the film is in the effect it gives just from viewing it and not looking at it in depth like other art films.
“Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot.”
- Buster Keaton

modage

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« Reply #144 on: January 23, 2004, 01:30:20 PM »
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did i read somewhere this was delayed too now, or am i imagining things?
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

cron

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« Reply #145 on: January 23, 2004, 01:35:00 PM »
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http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=4114&start=0

EDIT: hey! you even gave an opinion on that....
context, context, context.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #146 on: January 23, 2004, 01:35:50 PM »
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bizarrely enough, I was in the local indie rental store, and they ALREADY have a copy of this. The counter guy said they have some super-cool supplier man who hooks them up. Though this looked like a suspect version, as the jacket listed the director as only Kátia Lund...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

modage

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« Reply #147 on: January 23, 2004, 01:37:04 PM »
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ahh yes, i thought i remembered freaking out.  well, WHAT THE FUCK!?!? february has DICK now.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

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« Reply #148 on: January 23, 2004, 01:37:41 PM »
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Quote from: themodernage02
did i read somewhere this was delayed too now, or am i imagining things?


That was a joke. It's still slated for Feb. 17th.
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cron

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« Reply #149 on: January 23, 2004, 01:39:15 PM »
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Quote from: themodernage02
ahh yes, i thought i remembered freaking out.  well, WHAT THE FUCK!?!? february has DICK now.



it still has my birthday.. :yabbse-undecided:
context, context, context.

 

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