Author Topic: City of God  (Read 39650 times)

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Thecowgoooesmooo

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« Reply #120 on: December 10, 2003, 02:38:45 PM »
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all movies are political.



Elaborate please cBRAD. Explain to us, how "all movies are political."

?????????



chris

©brad

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« Reply #121 on: December 10, 2003, 09:43:53 PM »
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well, all art in general is political. even the absence of politics in a film is a political move, for essenstially u r saying "let's not rock the boat." we're gonna sell this to as many ppl as possible w/o offending anyone, and we can do that by leaving out any political inclinations whatsoever.

Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #122 on: December 10, 2003, 10:49:52 PM »
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Quote from: ©brad
well, all art in general is political. even the absence of politics in a film is a political move, for essenstially u r saying "let's not rock the boat." we're gonna sell this to as many ppl as possible w/o offending anyone, and we can do that by leaving out any political inclinations whatsoever.


I like that as general basis for films, but I don't think it specificies to what City of God is really about. One could say the film is historical, but so much of it concentrates on exploiting the chaos of the slums to really be about the history of the slums. Withstanding some little political comments toward the end with media and violence, the movie mainly is a survival story for the protaganist.

Jeremy Blackman

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« Reply #123 on: December 11, 2003, 09:14:53 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I don't think it specificies to what City of God is really about.


It's about poverty and violence. For me, at least.
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Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #124 on: December 11, 2003, 11:29:51 AM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I don't think it specificies to what City of God is really about.


It's about poverty and violence. For me, at least.


Understood, but I see them more as elements in the movie and not really followed through. The story to the movie isn't even that good. Its more exploitive of violence than anything else. The filmmaking though and the effect it has is magnificent.

©brad

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« Reply #125 on: December 11, 2003, 11:44:27 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I don't think it specificies to what City of God is really about.


It's about poverty and violence. For me, at least.


Understood, but I see them more as elements in the movie and not really followed through. The story to the movie isn't even that good. Its more exploitive of violence than anything else. The filmmaking though and the effect it has is magnificent.


well, i have yet to see the movie, but wouldn't u say it was political on a civilian level?

Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #126 on: December 11, 2003, 11:52:31 AM »
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Quote from: ©brad
well, i have yet to see the movie, but wouldn't u say it was political on a civilian level?


No. Simply because I don't believe the narrative follows through on taking the ideas JB said really serious. The movie is like Tarantino covered 30 years of poverty and violence in the slums and was forced to be semi realistic about it. He wouldn't go into fantasy, but he also wouldn't investigate the problems.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #127 on: December 11, 2003, 12:01:56 PM »
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Yeah, it woulda been trite to me if he would've tried to explain the whys and hows. I prefer the what and where.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

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« Reply #128 on: December 11, 2003, 12:08:29 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Yeah, it woulda been trite to me if he would've tried to explain the whys and hows. I prefer the what and where.


I agree... but I think JB and CBrad will agree with me when I say that the what and the where can be just as political, if not more so, than the whys and the hows (look at Safe, a brilliant film that can easily be considerd political- it has a bounty of the former and almost none of the latter). We have to distinguish between a "preachy" film and a "political" one- the truly effective political film will never come across as solely a celluloid election pamphlet.

I mean, if City of God focuses on violence and poverty and doesn't give you its answers, leaving you to ponder the whys and the hows, and is apparently a breathtaking film, I'd say that's very effective on a political level, much more so than if you were given the chance to dismiss the film for being too preachy or offering too-fallible solutions to the problems it depicts.
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Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

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« Reply #129 on: December 11, 2003, 12:09:58 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
Quote from: SoNowThen
Yeah, it woulda been trite to me if he would've tried to explain the whys and hows. I prefer the what and where.


I agree... but I think JB and CBrad will agree with me when I say that the what and the where can be just as political, if not more so, than the whys and the hows (look at Safe, a brilliant film that can easily be considerd political- it has a bounty of the former and almost none of the latter). We have to distinguish between a "preachy" film and a "political" one- the truly effective political film will never come across as solely a celluloid election pamphlet.


exactly.

the "why" is in the subtext. it doesn't necessarily have to be spelled out for you.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #130 on: December 11, 2003, 12:16:26 PM »
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I agree. Except for cbrad's last statement. The "why" isn't in the subtext. You can think about it and look into it yourself, but if it was subtextual, it would have been purposely woven into the film, which it wasn't (or if it was, I didn't catch it, anyway).

I see things more along the GT line of transcendence through style.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #131 on: December 11, 2003, 02:04:58 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
I mean, if City of God focuses on violence and poverty and doesn't give you its answers, leaving you to ponder the whys and the hows, and is apparently a breathtaking film, I'd say that's very effective on a political level, much more so than if you were given the chance to dismiss the film for being too preachy or offering too-fallible solutions to the problems it depicts.


Now you're just assuming what I meant when you really need to see the film first. The film really investigates nothing to even give you any "whys" or "hows" to think about. It simply isn't about that. The violence and poverty is just platform to convey the chaos that runs through this world and Rocket's life. The story is slim and the filmmaking quite large so the effect of what the violence and disorder is felt on a superficial level. I never said the film had to be in the context of a political pamphlet to be political, but the film makes no attempt to really dig into this world at all.

MacGuffin

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« Reply #132 on: January 02, 2004, 06:35:29 PM »
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"City Of God" will be available to own on the 17th of February and should retail at around $29.99. The film itself will be presented in 1.85:1 anamorphic widescreen along with a Dolby Digital 5.1 track.
“Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art.” - Andy Warhol


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cron

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« Reply #133 on: January 02, 2004, 06:48:47 PM »
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beat this ...


context, context, context.

Thecowgoooesmooo

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« Reply #134 on: January 02, 2004, 08:17:06 PM »
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The story is slim and the filmmaking quite large so the effect of what the violence and disorder is felt on a superficial level. I never said the film had to be in the context of a political pamphlet to be political, but the film makes no attempt to really dig into this world at all.



I don't understand how the violence and disorder is felt on a superficial or shallow level?????

This film is nothing new as far as structure, KIDS could be a similiar comparison because it dosen't rely on a real engaging story but more of a window into that world like City of God.


Quote
I never said the film had to be in the context of a political pamphlet to be political, but the film makes no attempt to really dig into this world at all.



What do you mean by "the film makes no attempt to really dig into this world at all"....?



chris

 

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