Back on the Mean Streets
See how Nicholson and DiCaprio, ''Gimme Shelter,'' and Hong Kong movies factored into ''The Departed,'' Martin Scorsese's highly anticipated return to gritty gangster tales by Chris Nashawaty
After big-canvas forays into the troubled mind of Howard Hughes and the ethnic clashes of 19th-century New York, Martin Scorsese's latest film, The Departed, is a visit back to the dark margins of contemporary gangsters, violence, and betrayal. Except this time around, he has a new partner in crime — Jack Nicholson. Combined, the two men have made more than 80 films, and have earned 19 Oscar nominations. And yet, as strange as it seems, they've never worked together. In their new cat-and-mouse thriller, Nicholson plays a sadistic Boston Irish Mob boss, with Matt Damon and Leonardo DiCaprio as a pair of rookie cops whose loyalties aren't what they seem, and relative newcomer Vera Farmiga as the woman caught between them. In other words, The Departed is signature Scorsese — a return to, and a riff on, the films that built his legend. We sat down with the 63-year-old director to talk about Nicholson, superhero movies, the Rolling Stones, and why even he has a hard time getting movies made these days.
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Why has it taken so long for you and Jack Nicholson to work together?
MARTIN SCORSESE: I know, 40 years! I first met Jack when I was shooting The Last Waltz, and he came on the set. I remember him complimenting me on Taxi Driver: ''You guys really took it to the limit on that.'' I'd meet him now and then in Europe and Hollywood, but we never actually sat down and looked each other in the eye and said let's work together.
Didn't he initially turn you down for The Departed?
Yes, but Jack works a certain way. Even when he was declining the role, he was talking about certain things he would do with the character. You have to decipher him. So we decided to jack up his character and then he said, ''Okay, I'm interested.'' His character is a man with power who has all the drugs in the world, all the money in the world, all the women in the world, he can do anything, mutilate people. He's like God. And he's still not fulfilled.
Did he add dialogue of his own?
Yes, so did Matt. But that's what I've always done. There's a big scene at the beginning of Mean Streets with Keitel and De Niro in the back room of the bar. De Niro makes up this whole speech — it's really a bravura performance — and it's all improvised. That scene made the picture. Taxi Driver was a very tight script and one scene was improvised: De Niro in the mirror.
The opening of this film is very GoodFellas — Nicholson's sinister voice-over and the Rolling Stones' ''Gimme Shelter.'' Right away, you know you're in Martyland...
That's the way the script was written by William Monahan. The narration at the opening by Jack, it takes us right into it. I thought, Yeah, I've kind of done it before, but the interesting thing here is the voice-over doesn't come back after the beginning. It puts you into the world and it leaves you there.
What about ''Gimme Shelter''? You've used it before in GoodFellas and Casino. What is it with you and that song?
I guess I'm repeating myself. [Laughs] The riff at the beginning of ''Gimme Shelter'' is dangerous. You know something's going to happen. Also, there is no shelter in this film. Nobody has shelter. When I was thinking of the music for this film, I was sitting in a traffic jam on 57th Street. And I saw a beat-up car with a guy behind the wheel with long hair screaming along to ''Gimme Shelter,'' slamming his fists on the steering wheel, and I went, ''That's it!''
You've made three films in a row with Leo. Is he your new De Niro?
Bob and I are the same age. We had the same points of reference. We're from the same worlds. That's something that I can never really share with Leo. But there's something in Leo — I can direct him in a way that he accepts. We agree on a lot of things. His sensitivity is so strong. Matt and Leo didn't know which character they wanted to play in this film. But I knew. Matt has this cocky attitude, a bravado. And Leo, his face is a battlefield of moral conflicts. The pain that comes across through his eyes...he's like Montgomery Clift or Paul Newman.
You've directed 10 actresses to Oscar nominations, but most people still think of you as a man's director...
A lot of the films I make deal with worlds that are male dominated. But that doesn't mean that the women's roles aren't important — Cathy Moriarty in Raging Bull, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio in The Color of Money, Ellen Burstyn in Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Cate Blanchett in The Aviator. I've tried to create female characters in that world as layered and complex as possible. For this film, I saw Vera Farmiga in a film called Down to the Bone, and she was fearless and interesting and intelligent.
Was there any resistance from the studio because she wasn't a big name?
Well, I pointed out to them that they had a lot of big names in the film already. [Laughs]
This is a remake of the 2002 Hong Kong film Infernal Affairs. Are you a big follower of Asian cinema?
I saw a movie in the mid-'70s from Hong Kong called A Touch of Zen, directed by King Hu. That was a whole new genre and style. Then as the years went on I heard about John Woo and saw The Killer. And when I saw that, I thought I might as well pack it up! Don't even think of making an action film after that!
Is it hard for you to get films made in Hollywood?
Very hard. The question is how close to a personal film can I make in the Hollywood system today — and this is as close as I can get. I don't know if there's room for me and the kind of picture I'd like to make anymore. I may have to do them independently because I like to take risks, and how can you do that when a picture costs $200 million? There's a lot of money involved and you have a responsibility to the studio.
Do you think you'd ever be interested in making a superhero movie or a franchise movie?
[Kind of winces] I don't know. I don't know how to do it. I don't know what they would be hiring me for.
What are you doing next?
I've got a project based on a book by a great Japanese author named Endo called Silence. It takes place in 17th-century Japan and it's about Jesuit missionaries and what they go through. It's about faith. I'm hoping we can find a way to shoot it inexpensively, but not too quickly. I like a lot of days to shoot.
Eighteen years ago, your film The Last Temptation of Christ was boycotted by Christian groups. Could you relate to Mel Gibson and the Passion of the Christ controversy?
Well, I think he generated controversy and criticism for just the opposite reasons I did. I think a lot of people who went to see his film are not people who would be interested in seeing mine. In a way his film is like medieval fresco painting that goes through the Passion of Jesus, and going to the film becomes almost part of a religious act. Like walking the stations of the cross. Whereas, in Last Temptation, we were trying to open up discussion about faith and about Jesus and the concept of who's considered good and bad. Is Judas the worst one or the best one? We're not saying that's the gospel, all we were saying was let's talk about it.
When Peter O'Toole received an honorary Oscar in 2003, he said at the time that he'd still like to win one competitively. How do you feel about being nominated for Best Director five times and never winning?
I think too much has been written about it. It's a matter of timing, and a lot of the pictures I've made are nasty and tough. It's natural that some people would react against that. There have been a lot of people who received Oscars when their other films were better and the Academy was catching up. But that's something I have no control over. The important thing for me was getting pictures like Taxi Driver and Raging Bull made. To be honest, I've gotten away with a lot within the Hollywood system.
