Author Topic: not the most popular thread anymore, donnie darko and homos.  (Read 57241 times)

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cowboykurtis

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not the most popular thread anymore, donnie darko and homos.
« Reply #255 on: April 10, 2003, 11:23:55 AM »
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Quote from: Jake_82
Quote from: cowboykurtis
Quote from: cecil b. demented
coyboy, do you have sympathy for people who are still alive and going through a rough time because of such insensitive language?


sure, i don't wish pain upon other people. but i do not sympathize with people who let the words and actions of other control their lives to the point where they take their own. i pity them at that point.


alright, we've established that fact, but what I've been trying to say is that even if you don't sympathise with people who get hurt over words, there's no reason you can't stop contributing to people's potential pain, wether it's pain that you understand or not... I mean what do you have to lose?


why are you acusing me of "contributributing to people's pain". you dont know me buddy. ive never used the word "gay" in a deragatory fashion. i have friends that are gay -- i have no problem with it.  making hollow accusations is just as irresponible as these "gay basher" that you are reprimanding.
...your excuses are your own...

RegularKarate

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not the most popular thread anymore, donnie darko and homos.
« Reply #256 on: April 10, 2003, 12:10:20 PM »
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Quote from: cowboykurtis

why are you acusing me of "contributributing to people's pain". you dont know me buddy. ive never used the word "gay" in a deragatory fashion. i have friends that are gay -- i have no problem with it.  making hollow accusations is just as irresponible as these "gay basher" that you are reprimanding.


Once again, Cowboy, I think he was refering to people in general... I don't think anyone's accusing YOU specifically of anything (at least I'm not)

budgie

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« Reply #257 on: April 10, 2003, 12:32:47 PM »
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Quote from: cowboykurtis
sure, i don't wish pain upon other people. but i do not sympathize with people who let the words and actions of other control their lives to the point where they take their own. i pity them at that point.


Quote from: cowboycurtis
why are you acusing me of "contributributing to people's pain". you dont know me buddy. ive never used the word "gay" in a deragatory fashion. i have friends that are gay -- i have no problem with it.  making hollow accusations is just as irresponible as these "gay basher" that you are reprimanding.


But isn't standing by and forcing everyone to simply be responsible for themselves, no matter what kind of beating they are getting, just as blameworthy as actually getting involved in the attack? It's your lack of sympathy that is the real problem, because you are ignoring the fact that there is prejudice that causes people real problems, in favour of pretending to treat everyone equally. Feeling sorry for them when they are beaten isn't gonna do them much good, is it?

You are lucky to be in a position, obviously, where you can afford to be so independent as not to need people supporting you and standing up for you. The reality is that not everyone is psychologically strong (and try enduring years of gay-bashing and see how all together you'd feel then) and not everyone is equal. It's not easy to decide where someone would do better standing up for themselves and where they really need help, but just ignoring the problem only feeds it.

cowboykurtis

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« Reply #258 on: April 10, 2003, 12:49:55 PM »
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Quote from: budgie
Quote from: cowboykurtis
sure, i don't wish pain upon other people. but i do not sympathize with people who let the words and actions of other control their lives to the point where they take their own. i pity them at that point.


Quote from: cowboycurtis
why are you acusing me of "contributributing to people's pain". you dont know me buddy. ive never used the word "gay" in a deragatory fashion. i have friends that are gay -- i have no problem with it.  making hollow accusations is just as irresponible as these "gay basher" that you are reprimanding.


But isn't standing by and forcing everyone to simply be responsible for themselves, no matter what kind of beating they are getting, just as blameworthy as actually getting involved in the attack? It's your lack of sympathy that is the real problem, because you are ignoring the fact that there is prejudice that causes people real problems, in favour of pretending to treat everyone equally. Feeling sorry for them when they are beaten isn't gonna do them much good, is it?

You are lucky to be in a position, obviously, where you can afford to be so independent as not to need people supporting you and standing up for you. The reality is that not everyone is psychologically strong (and try enduring years of gay-bashing and see how all together you'd feel then) and not everyone is equal. It's not easy to decide where someone would do better standing up for themselves and where they really need help, but just ignoring the problem only feeds it.


if you want to blame me for people killing themselves, because i dont actively "fix" people's broken feelings, thats a bunch of bullshit. im not ignoring the problem. if i was ingoring it, we wouldnt be having this dusicussion. im very aware of the problem, i think its horrible, and i in know way support it. however i have my own priorities, and other problems that relate stronger to my life and others i know --  its not my job to be a shoulder to cry on. if i actualyy witnessed someone mistreating someone, id try to stop it with the best of my ability. otherwise, i dont take part in gay bashing, and i do not actively try to prevent it.  i just feel with any issue, there is a stigma that people find it easier to blame others. like i said before, your excuses are your own. if you're being mistreated there are many other solutions before suicide. just out of curiousity, since you've labeled my act of "ignoring" hatred towards homosexuals the same as actually doing the abusing -- what saintly acts do you take part in every day to save all those lonely, broken souls of homoesexuals?
...your excuses are your own...

cowboykurtis

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« Reply #259 on: April 10, 2003, 12:52:08 PM »
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Quote from: RegularKarate
Quote from: cowboykurtis

why are you acusing me of "contributributing to people's pain". you dont know me buddy. ive never used the word "gay" in a deragatory fashion. i have friends that are gay -- i have no problem with it.  making hollow accusations is just as irresponible as these "gay basher" that you are reprimanding.


Once again, Cowboy, I think he was refering to people in general... I don't think anyone's accusing YOU specifically of anything (at least I'm not)


karate -- i realize you're not. however when im quoted in a post, and thats followed with a statement, i think its referring to me and my words -- indirectly or not.
...your excuses are your own...

budgie

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« Reply #260 on: April 10, 2003, 01:27:48 PM »
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Quote from: cowboykurtis

im very aware of the problem, i think its horrible, and i in know way support it... if i actualyy witnessed someone mistreating someone, id try to stop it with the best of my ability. otherwise, i dont take part in gay bashing, and i do not actively try to prevent it.


That implies to me that you do feel some sympathy for people before it gets to suicide (when the problem is at an end), and I am glad to know you would do something if it was within your capabilities as you see them. I don't pretend to being any more active than that, since you ask, and I don't exclude myself from my own criticism. I do, however, disapprove of any behaviour, however trivial it appears, that could be offensive, and I do often make my feelings known in some attempt to prevent real harm. And to make sure whoever is being attacked knows I support them and that they are not alone. If we are aware that what we are doing is even potentially harmful, then we can be held partly to blame for the consequences. If we all stay silent and wait for the person who is being persecuted to speak up, then things can just get out of control because they do not feel able to speak up for themselves... so we may as well have joined in. How does anyone know, if you are silent, whether you are with them or against them?

But, yeah, you are right, I have my own battles to fight too (I've also had to stand up for myself and others in this very situation) and maybe we should all do more and make more noise? So I just had to question your attitude, as it seemed completely passive before.

bonanzataz

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« Reply #261 on: April 10, 2003, 01:43:04 PM »
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who woke up this stupid fucking thread?
The corpses all hang headless and limp bodies with no surprises and the blood drains down like devil’s rain we’ll bathe tonight I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls Demon I am and face I peel to see your skin turned inside out, ’cause gotta have you on my wall gotta have you on my wall, ’cause I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls collect the heads of little girls and put ’em on my wall hack the heads off little girls and put ’em on my wall I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls

jmj

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not the most popular thread anymore, donnie darko and homos.
« Reply #262 on: April 10, 2003, 02:00:05 PM »
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Never underestimate the power of leading by example.  If you care about human rights in general and show sympathy towards someone being beaten down by society then that simple small action has the power to effect someone.  The only reason I ever brought up the "Gay" thing in the first place is because I have very direct experience with the negative feelings attitudes like this can generate.  I knew there would be tons of people who think it's stupid to call someone out for using the word Gay like that.  But I also thought that maybe someone would think about it and change there ways.  Who knows?  Most people have no personal stake in whether the attitude towards homosexuals changes but I do so I'm glad people are still posting on this thread.  "A single step begins the journey of a thousand miles."
Gorobei Katayama: You're Good.
Heihachi Hayashida: Yeah, yeah. But I'm better at killing enemies.
Gorobei Katayama: Killed many?
Heihachi Hayashida: Well - It's impossible to kill 'em all, so I ususally run away.
Gorobei Katayama: A splendid principle!
Heihachi Hayashida: Thank you.

cowboykurtis

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« Reply #263 on: April 10, 2003, 02:09:13 PM »
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Quote from: budgie
Quote from: cowboykurtis

im very aware of the problem, i think its horrible, and i in know way support it... if i actualy witnessed someone mistreating someone, id try to stop it with the best of my ability. otherwise, i dont take part in gay bashing, and i do not actively try to prevent it.


budgie wrote: That implies to me that you do feel some sympathy for people before it gets to suicide...

i never said that i didn't have sympathy for people in pain. this whole debate was always about suicide from my standpoint. i dont care if you're gay or black or kurt cobain, if you kill yourself -- i have no sympathy. end of story. im putting this horse to rest.
...your excuses are your own...

Cecil

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not the most popular thread anymore, donnie darko and homos.
« Reply #264 on: April 10, 2003, 07:47:53 PM »
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jesus christ buddy, you dont have to sound so angry in your posts. were just having a discussion here. and sure you have your own battles to fight, we all do, and im not saying you should give pro-gay speeches in schools all over the country either

the whole point of this is to try not to use the word "gay" in a deragatory fashion. thats all. i think it would do alot of good, and you dont have to go out of your way to do it. its simply just being respectful towards your fellow man.

you seem to be missing the point because you keep talking about not having any sympathy for people killing themselves. okay fine, thats your opinion, but this isnt a debate about whether or not we are responsible as a society towards people who kill themselves, this is about showing a bit of respect by not using the word gay in a deragatory way.

btw, this thread is so straight.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #265 on: April 10, 2003, 08:37:20 PM »
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why is this topic back, get the fuck over it

Cecil

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« Reply #266 on: April 10, 2003, 08:41:19 PM »
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the topic is back because people dont care and dont change. ill never get over that

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

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« Reply #267 on: April 10, 2003, 08:56:49 PM »
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Quote from: Jake_82
I know this is an afterthought or whatever, but I really don't understand how people can think that saying "gay" in a derogatory manner doesn't effect anyone. Someone I inderictly know (mutual friends, etc) today commited suicide. He was gay and very depressed, but about a month before he killed himself he wrote a long livejournal post about suicide and other things, where he says

"Also, just the fact of being gay, hits my heart. I know what a battle it is. I know how much it hurts, and all the torments and battles inside that go on. I've been suicidal because of those torments.... I've thought to myself no more wanting to scream my lungs out at almost everyone I go to school with who uses "gay" as a derogatory term. No more pain."

I'm not saying that if no one had said gay in a derogatory manner he wouldn't have killed himself or that he had any reason to, but I think it needs to be pointed out that your actions do effect other people.


you guys go on and on about how people like speilberg are highlly manipulitve, but what else would you call this post. Its a bummer your friend felt that life sucked so much that he had to split. But this post, is kinda knee jerk here ya know.  All based on emotion.

Saying " god that film was gay" is not the same as hanging someone from a tree

this i will say, Ive noticed a lot of writters and creative types, in the past few years have been acting anti p.c in a punk rock fashion, because in the 90's the status quo was p.c and nazi-ish for that matter, so what is the only way to say fuck you to that, well make like liam and noel from oasis or the beastie boys circa 1987 before the became the sad and pathetic bunch they are now . Punk grew out of a reaction to the bloated hippy culture, the same thing with the alternative 90's , it became self important and bloated and well let the backlash roll.............

anyway sorry about your friend, but investigate the real root to what lead to him doing himself, if he killed himself over a hollow slam from a person he does not even respect in the first place, well then that is a shame. The sad thing is that he would let that bug him in the first place.

cowboykurtis

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« Reply #268 on: April 10, 2003, 09:16:33 PM »
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Quote from: cecil b. demented
jesus christ buddy, you dont have to sound so angry in your posts. were just having a discussion here. and sure you have your own battles to fight, we all do, and im not saying you should give pro-gay speeches in schools all over the country either

the whole point of this is to try not to use the word "gay" in a deragatory fashion. thats all. i think it would do alot of good, and you dont have to go out of your way to do it. its simply just being respectful towards your fellow man.

you seem to be missing the point because you keep talking about not having any sympathy for people killing themselves. okay fine, thats your opinion, but this isnt a debate about whether or not we are responsible as a society towards people who kill themselves, this is about showing a bit of respect by not using the word gay in a deragatory way.

btw, this thread is so straight.


im very far from being angry. we're debating a topic -- i have strong opinions and im just expressing them. if youd actually read the words in my post, you'd see that i in no way support gay bashing. all of my comments that seem angry or agressive are directed towards suicide -- i dont sympathize with someone who takes their life -- its of no consequence what race creed or sexual orientation the person happens to be -- end of story. so id appreciate it if you'd actually take time and READ MY WORDS so you dont put my thoughts out of context before truly comprehending my view point. are we finished beating a dead horse?
...your excuses are your own...

Cecil

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« Reply #269 on: April 10, 2003, 09:21:58 PM »
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beating a dead horse? man, were all talking about different things here. the horse hasnt even died

 

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