Author Topic: Filmmakers who lost their sheep  (Read 9494 times)

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Pro T-Bono

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Filmmakers who lost their sheep
« on: January 13, 2004, 11:32:56 PM »
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I was in class today when the topic of creative capacity came up and my prof noted that the part of the brain that manifests creativity becomes weaker as pressure builds in the brain, which happens to all of us with age...sorry for the bill nye explanation but it kinda struck me today.  Anyways, that pretty much solved the riddle, at least for me, as to why so many great filmmakers (not all of course because i know some smartass is gonna post the cover for eyes wide shut or some shit) end up losing their shit when they get old...coppola for example and even scrocese to some degree, have lost the edge..............comments on the topic?

For conversations sake, what filmmakers have really lost their shit with age, in your opinion?
that's amazing!              Where are we?

Rudie Obias

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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2004, 01:15:24 AM »
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TIM BURTON!!!
\"a pair of eyes staring at you, projected on a large screen is what cinema is truly about.\" -volker schlöndorff

Pubrick

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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2004, 01:42:21 AM »
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not even. more like Godard, Lumet, Allen.. these are great ppl who lost their shit.

there's lots who havn't tho, like Altman. this is gonna be like..

from Homer's Barbershop Quartet (season 5)
[homer is explaining how the Be Sharps lost their popularity..]

Homer: We were about to learn an iron law
of show business.. what goes up must come down.
Lisa: What about Bob Hope?  He's been
consistently popular for over fifty years.
Bart: So's Sinatra.
Homer: Well, anyway, we were all getting tired of --
Lisa: Dean Martin still packs 'em in.
Bart: Ditto Tom Jones.
Homer: Shut up!
under the paving stones.

soixante

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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2004, 01:43:50 AM »
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Robert Altman and Clint Eastwood are both in their 70's, and they are as great as ever.  If Gosford Park and Mystic River represent the work of old, washed-up directors, we need more old, washed-up directors.
Music is your best entertainment value.

eward

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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2004, 08:07:10 AM »
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william friedkin
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."

SoNowThen

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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2004, 09:13:06 AM »
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Quote from: P
not even. more like Godard... these are great ppl who lost their shit.


seen In Praise Of Love??? It's among his best work...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

NEON MERCURY

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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2004, 10:17:35 AM »
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tony kaye....

.john huges...

lawrence kadsen...

i agree w/ freidkin...

craven.....

Pubrick

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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2004, 10:28:09 AM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
seen In Praise Of Love???

yeah, it was forgettable. godard has not aged well.

Quote from: NEON MERCURY
tony kaye....

u just killed me.
under the paving stones.

cowboykurtis

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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2004, 10:47:25 AM »
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i think its more about circumstance than science -- i really think theres a psychological effect that takes over after you've "secured" yourself as a acclaimed director. theres no way scorsese can re-create the desperation and risk that the process of taxi driver brought to his life -- when he made that film he was marting scorsese -- now hes MARTIN SCORSESE AKA MARTY AKA THE GREATEST LIVING DIRECTOR -- the sense of urgency is inherently out the window. i dont think the players change with age, the game does -- once you get into the realm of 100 million dollar features the creative choke collar becomes more and more restrictive. this is obviously one example, but i think it can be applied to many -- i think coppola has floundered in his own quest to become this self-proclaimed mogul. i think it became less and less about the excitement of creating and more and more about obtaining "fat cat" status -- assumptions, yes, but i dont think its too far from truth.
...your excuses are your own...

SoNowThen

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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2004, 10:55:56 AM »
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Yeah, that's kinda how I feel. Everybody's gotta peak at some point. That doesn't mean they "lose it" after that. I agree that Marty probably peaked with Taxi Driver, though some could argue Raging Bull. But I still think every film he does (minus Cape ididthisjusttomakemoneysoicouldmakebetterfilms Fear) is brilliant.




***

And Godard has not lost it. The moviegoers have lost their appreciation of him -- that's the only damn thing that's been lost.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

©brad

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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2004, 11:55:23 AM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Yeah, that's kinda how I feel. Everybody's gotta peak at some point. That doesn't mean they "lose it" after that. I agree that Marty probably peaked with Taxi Driver, though some could argue Raging Bull. But I still think every film he does (minus Cape ididthisjusttomakemoneysoicouldmakebetterfilms Fear) is brilliant.




***

And Godard has not lost it. The moviegoers have lost their appreciation of him -- that's the only damn thing that's been lost.


um, did you see last temptation of christ, age of innocence, goodfellas, casino, kundun? how could you put the peak, if such a thing exists (i don't think we should judge quite yet) at raging bull?

mogwai

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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2004, 12:24:05 PM »
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coppola
kubrick

SoNowThen

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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2004, 12:27:19 PM »
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Quote from: ©brad
Quote from: SoNowThen
Yeah, that's kinda how I feel. Everybody's gotta peak at some point. That doesn't mean they "lose it" after that. I agree that Marty probably peaked with Taxi Driver, though some could argue Raging Bull. But I still think every film he does (minus Cape ididthisjusttomakemoneysoicouldmakebetterfilms Fear) is brilliant.




***

And Godard has not lost it. The moviegoers have lost their appreciation of him -- that's the only damn thing that's been lost.


um, did you see last temptation of christ, age of innocence, goodfellas, casino, kundun? how could you put the peak, if such a thing exists (i don't think we should judge quite yet) at raging bull?


I agree, all amazing films. I love each one you mentioned. And that seems to prove my point.

I just think that, for each great artist, they have this unconscious moment of work, when the alchemy just happens, and they get a product that they will never be able to equal. But then when they can't people start going on about "losing it", which I think is bunk.

Now, Coppola is a good example of losing it. Does his masterpiece, Apocalypse Now, then does what.... junk, in some forms or another, up until now. Some decent films, yes, but no great films. Marty, however, is cited for TD and RB, then goes on to make all the films you mentioned. Even if you wanna peak him at Goodfellas, look at all the brilliance he's done since then. And mark my words, there will be a critical re-evaluation of Kundun, Bringing Out The Dead, and hopefully, Gangs Of New York.

EDIT: I'll tell you who lost it -- Bob Rafelson. Five Easy Pieces and King Of Marvin Gardens are just amazing, and then he follows up with 25 straight years of shit-sandwich...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

molly

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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2004, 01:01:31 PM »
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Quote
Marriage tames geniuses and criminals

 
 


   

Creative genius and crime express themselves early in men but both are turned off almost like a tap if a man gets married and has children, a New Zealand study finds.
Satoshi Kanazawa, a psychologist at the University of Canterbury, compiled a database of the biographies of 280 great scientists, noting their age at the time when they made their greatest work.
The data remarkably concur with the brutal observation made by Albert Einstein, who wrote in 1942: "A person who has not made his great contribution to science before the age of 30 will never do so."
"Scientific productivity indeed fades with age," Kanazawa says.
"Two-thirds (of all scientists) will have made their most significant contributions before their mid-thirties."
But, regardless of age, the great minds who married virtually kissed goodbye to making any further glorious additions to their CV.
Within five years of making their nuptial vows, nearly a quarter of married scientists had made their last significant contribution to history's Hall of Fame.
"Scientists rather quickly desist (from their careers) after their marriage, while unmarried scientists continue to make great scientific contributions later in their lives," says Kanazawa.
The energy of youth and the dampening effect of marriage, he adds, are also remarkably similar among geniuses in music, painting and writing, as well as in criminal activity.
Previous studies have documented that delinquents are overwhelmingly male, and usually start out on the road to crime in their teens.
But those who marry well subsequently stop committing crime, whereas criminals at the same age who remain unmarried tend to continue their unlawful careers.
Kanazawa suggests "a single psychological mechanism" is responsible for this: the competitive edge among young men to fight for glory and gain the attention of women. That craving drives the all-important male hormone, testosterone.
After a man settles down, the testosterone level falls, as does his creative output, Kanazawa theorises.
The study appears in in the August issue of the Journal of Research in Personality , and has also been reported in the British weekly New Scientist .   


what do you say about this?
What do you think some lost it and others didn't?
I know some croatian writer who is 68 years old, lives dull life with his wife, has his everyday routine like other man of his age, but writes even better?

soixante

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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2004, 01:04:26 PM »
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I think Scorsese will never top Mean Streets and Taxi Driver.  Some of his subsequent films, like Raging Bull and GoodFellas and Casino, are better than 99% of all the American films out there, but they still aren't as sublime as his 70's films.  I think Scorsese has made commercial films like Color of Money and Cape Fear just so he can continue to make more personal films, but I think doing films for the wrong reasons can compromise your integrity.

I think Altman has had a long, productive career because he has never compromised his integrity.  When the 80's hit, directors who were great in the 70's like Bob Rafelson, Brian De Palma and Michael Ritchie started making bad studio films, simply to keep working.  Altman went underground, eschewing the studio system entirely, making low-budget films that he had complete artistic control over.  When the 90's rolled around, Altman was part of the growing independent movement, whereas a lot of his contemporaries from the 70's were either not working or had completely sold out.

I think there is such a thing as artistic karma, and guys like Altman and Godard and even John Sayles have continued to have fertile careers because they stay pure to their respective visions, irregardless of marketplace concerns.
Music is your best entertainment value.

 

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