Author Topic: does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?  (Read 14253 times)

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SHAFTR

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2003, 09:22:28 PM »
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Quote from: MacGuffin
Quote from: socketlevel
if i want to see a cool film i'll go see kill bill.  it doesn't try (and fail) at being anything but a masterpiece of entertainment.  which as we should all know is.


You reaffirmed exactly what I didn't like "Kill Bill". I'll take a film that at least tries (and succeeds), like "Fight Club," over one that plays it safe any day.


I felt more for The Bride than Jack (narrator, etc) in Fight Club.
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cron

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2003, 03:57:09 PM »
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i think i sum up most brats' feelings torwards Fight Club when i say that i loved it when i saw it for the first time because it activated an interest in film, like Ono said, but after repeated viewings you started noting things....  me and my cousin had this discussion, where we ended up saying that  the scene in which Brad Pitt clears up the whole thing in the hotel room  gives away the movie. not in a classical sense, but there was no need for that scene, considering that the film had already established a "weird-narrative-thingy" going on at the begining.
context, context, context.

meatball

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2004, 02:26:00 PM »
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I think we are all acting pretentious pushing our film opinions against one another to see which one outshines the other.

Listening to the Fincher, Pitt, Norton commentary -- Norton sounds really pretentious and self-involved. Very intelligent guy, but seems 'bossy.'

grand theft sparrow

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2004, 09:19:53 PM »
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Quote from: SHAFTR
I felt more for The Bride than Jack (narrator, etc) in Fight Club.


SPOILERS!!!!!

Who wouldn't though?  The Bride was left for dead, everyone who she cared for either betrayed her or was killed, she lost her baby  :wink: , and she wakes up from a coma to find that she's been had by every truck driving redneck in a 50 mile radius.  Of course you feel more for the Bride than the Narrator. You're supposed to.

But I relate to the Narrator more than the Bride. He's just a schmuck like most of us (me certainly) that can't deal with his passive-aggressive lifestyle and fashions a separate personality to do all the things he wishes he had the balls to do.  It's something that I know I've certainly felt, like my only two options are to suck it up and deal or go crazy.  I completely got Fight Club from the get-go and any small chinks in the armor that I've noticed are no different and no more off-putting than little things I've noticed in universally regarded classics.

And that's why I like Fight Club more than Kill Bill even though they both kick major ass.

How did Kill Bill get brought into this again?

socketlevel

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2004, 12:34:07 PM »
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Quote from: meatball
I think we are all acting pretentious pushing our film opinions against one another to see which one outshines the other.


ok, fine.  i guess i disagree.  i think exploring the subtext of films through analysis is very engaging.  it's complacency to not.

-sl-
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UncleJoey

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2004, 12:29:52 AM »
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The "message" of this film seems to have few fans in this thread, but I'm wondering what exactly you guys think the "message" is. This film seems to be saying a lot of things, although its take on consumerism seems to be the one that most people latch on to. What about its response to feminism and late 20th century masculinity? I've had many discussions about this film with friends and other students, but have rarely heard that brought up. Perhaps it has been brought up in other threads. If so, I apologize - I'm new.

I don't really think Fincher is trying to force us to sympathize with the Narrator beyond recognizing the culture that has driven him bat-shit crazy to begin with. The film is an analysis of a culture of increasing consumerism and decreasing masculinity (not saying those two are related, of course) and what it does to one already unstable man. The film shouldn't have us asking what we think of the narrator, but what we think of the factors that drove the narrator to become who and what he is by the film's conclusion.
Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit . . . and Jack just left town.

Sleuth

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2004, 12:39:28 AM »
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WOOOOOOOOOOD?
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NEON MERCURY

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2004, 10:08:07 PM »
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*doing the hand-jestures*  Cut..........it.......... out...

Gold Trumpet

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2004, 10:21:21 PM »
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Quote from: socketlevel
but back to the interesting topic that Gold Trumpet brought up.  first off I think the pretense comes from the very fact that it is a style-fest.  It tries, just like the matrix, to be philosophical, when actually, it's a grade nine stoners' conversation.  The movie is soooo "cool" it can't even handle itself.


I should have replied to this before. Sure, it throws out big ideas and all, but I think that is just to give the story meat. Most generic crime films have slices of "societal commentary" to the side but the films aren't trying to be societal commentary at all. They are just crime films. Matrix is an action film and Fight Club is a thriller, all because they all end on the terms of genre. My main problem is with the people who try to elevate these films to something they are not. Thats pretensious. Other than that, all films have some terms of pretension to them. I just don't think these ones are pretensious enough to where they are insulting which seems to be at the heart of subject here.

UncleJoey

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2004, 10:34:11 PM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I should have replied to this before. Sure, it throws out big ideas and all, but I think that is just to give the story meat. Most generic crime films have slices of "societal commentary" to the side but the films aren't trying to be societal commentary at all. They are just crime films. Matrix is an action film and Fight Club is a thriller, all because they all end on the terms of genre. My main problem is with the people who try to elevate these films to something they are not. Thats pretensious. Other than that, all films have some terms of pretension to them. I just don't think these ones are pretensious enough to where they are insulting which seems to be at the heart of subject here.


Are you saying that the philosophy of Fight Club is inconsistent? I have a hard time buying that. I'm not going to use the lame "you just don't get it" argument. I would just like you to be more specific in what you find lacking in the social commentary.
Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit . . . and Jack just left town.

Gold Trumpet

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2004, 10:37:47 PM »
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Quote from: UncleJoey
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I should have replied to this before. Sure, it throws out big ideas and all, but I think that is just to give the story meat. Most generic crime films have slices of "societal commentary" to the side but the films aren't trying to be societal commentary at all. They are just crime films. Matrix is an action film and Fight Club is a thriller, all because they all end on the terms of genre. My main problem is with the people who try to elevate these films to something they are not. Thats pretensious. Other than that, all films have some terms of pretension to them. I just don't think these ones are pretensious enough to where they are insulting which seems to be at the heart of subject here.


Are you saying that the philosophy of Fight Club is inconsistent? I have a hard time buying that. I'm not going to use the lame "you just don't get it" argument. I would just like you to be more specific in what you find lacking in the social commentary.


No, that for all the hoopla it has in commenting on society, it still in ends on the terms of any other thriller so its really not that serious in intent. The story uses the ideas as tools to move its story along, but hey, if I don't get it, tell me. I'd love to talk about it.

UncleJoey

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2004, 10:52:52 PM »
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Well, I would say that the center of the film is about the rejection of commodity fetishism and the return to a more "will-based" form of life. The Narrator is just a typical consumer going crazy living in an isolated world with no love and no real "human" passions. He, with help from Tyler, turns to violence through fight club to return to a more basic human experience. The people fighting are simply imposing their will on another human being - the most basic human experience. This is also possible through love, but the film makes a point of exposing the absense and failure of that in modern society. Basically, the narrator and the members of Project Mayhem are using violence as a means to an end - that end being life without debt and without commodities. As the buildings blow up, we see the end of debt (which some people would tell you is the most powerful tool of oppression the powers-that-be have - who do you know that isn't in some kind of debt? It's an enslaving process.) and the end of commodity fetishism. So I would argue that the ending isn't just a typical "thriller" ending, but also ties up the major social arch of the film. It isn't violent merely for the sake of entertainment, but for the sake of advancing the main social goal of the film's characters.

Of course, that's a very incomplete analysis. I'm just trying to get some discussion going.
Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit . . . and Jack just left town.

Gold Trumpet

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2004, 11:03:16 PM »
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I see what you're saying, but in everything you said to give the film validity (which I don't doubt), where does the sub plot of the revelation that Ed Norton's character being Brad Pitt character play into elevating the film plot? Sure, I think some reason can be given to justify it, but the trickery of plot in making this the "big revelation' it did showed to me that the film in the end was resorting to a gimmick plot that proved to be as generic as one used in any psychological thriller. Plus, the more I think about it, the more I see the unbelievability of him being able to be both men at the same time and everyone else the fool of his disorder. At best, Helena's character mentions he has weird shifts in personality or something. It hardly explains the unbelievability of him doing everything else and no one really questioning it. The only thing I can come up is that movie land logic is at play.

UncleJoey

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2004, 01:00:02 AM »
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As cheap as the "movie land logic" defense generally is, I think it actually does have more strength with this particular film than many others. This is due to the fact that the movie itself draws attention to the fact that it is a film. Examples: When Tyler points to the cigarrette burns during the scene in the projection room and, of course, the splicing in of the penis right at the film's conclusion.

Also, I think there are several other moments where people hint at the split personality. Helena asking what he's talking about when Norton hears Tyler in the basement, several odd looks characters give him. I admit that I haven't gone through the movie looking only for holes in that plot line, although I've heard several exist. I don't doubt that, actually. However, I don't let that deter me from focusing on the other elements the film brings to the table. Perhaps, I'm just a sucker. Oh well . . .
Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit . . . and Jack just left town.

El Duderino

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does anyone think fight club is a little pretentious?
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2004, 09:42:08 AM »
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Quote from: UncleJoey
the splicing in of the penis right at the film's conclusion.



i didnt see that until like the 3rd time i saw it. i've noticed that, for me at least, you see something new everytime you see it.
Did I just get cock-blocked by Bob Saget?

 

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