Author Topic: underrated pop music  (Read 13301 times)

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phil marlowe

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underrated pop music
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2003, 09:20:19 AM »
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Quote from: Newtron
His album is the perfect example for this thread.

+ "Beautiful" by Christina Aguilera. Can't think of others right now but there's lots of good chart songs that are dismissed.

true, both points. destenys child as well as other christina songs an even j-lo did good songs once.

Jeremy Blackman

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underrated pop music
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2003, 09:35:58 AM »
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Quote from: godardian
The only definition of pop music that really works is expansive and universal: Anything, on any scale, intended to be mass-replicated/produced/broadcast for public consumption, is pop music.


But... doesn't does that definition render the term "pop music" useless, at least for our purposes? What is not pop music?
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godardian

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underrated pop music
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2003, 10:33:02 AM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: godardian
The only definition of pop music that really works is expansive and universal: Anything, on any scale, intended to be mass-replicated/produced/broadcast for public consumption, is pop music.


But... doesn't does that definition render the term "pop music" useless, at least for our purposes? What is not pop music?


Not pop music would maybe be anything "classical," particularly when performed rather then recorded. Still, that line is also very blurry. Even composers had (and have) personalities and recognizable sounds and followings, all marks of the cult of personality that really drives pop music.

I thought we were talking about underrated artists/sounds from across the broad spectrum of pop, not pop as a supposedly underrated artificial/false genre.

Here's an example of my huge problem with the music press and public's mindless obsession with genre-fying and sub-genre-fying music, apparently as a result of either lack of perspective or willful amnesia: If we narrow our definition of "pop" music down to "top 40" or "literally popular" or "more well-known," then the leaden, horrendous sounds of Nickelback are actually more "pop" than Bjork, which I find insupportable.

The division of things into little genres is, I think, either a cynically demographic-based, corporate-conceived way of keeping things predictable and in their proper places, or an obnoxious hipster party game for those who think their knowledge of some of pop-music history's extensive and labyrynthine history puts them above those whose access is more limited. Either way, the distinctions fall apart so easily as to render them useless. Putting as much as possible under the umbrella term "pop" music is the least exclusive, most accurate terminology, in my opinion.

I mean, these silly terms- "alt-rock," "alt-country," "electroclash" (for FUCK's sake!)- are pointless. They tell me nothing. They're lazy, lazy shorthand, simplistic branding for people who don't have time to think. I know it's all pop music, constantly shifting shapes and overlapping its different influences and audiences; other distinctions require more than lazy "alternative vs. pop" pigeonholing to be descriptive in a way that's worth anything to me.

I guess there are a million different styles in pop music, but it all goes through the same channels. I just get very tired of the simplemindedness of our rotten music biz, the dessicated music press, and that grotesque behemoth, MTV. They're the ones who benefit most from having us say, "Bjork's not pop- she's 'alternative'." I refuse to use the word "alternative." That's a business-world word, and I'm not part of the business world; I listen to and love pop music for purely personal reasons.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

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freakerdude

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underrated pop music
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2003, 10:38:42 AM »
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Pop is obviously directed to a specific market of young customers, and therefore, radio play on pop stations. Anyone can make claims of what pop really is or isn't but the same goes for films today......so many break out of the genre scheme that they cannot be labeled. Pink Floyd is one band that cannot seem to be labeled, IMO.

Corporate, mass produced, sugar coated music (sang by a sexy lip sync'er) made to SELL to a target audience of 16 and under is what I call pop. Sure, the target audienece is much wider but they specifically target teenagers. Most of your pop idols are corporate products rather than creative artists. If they can't do it live and w/o lip sync'ing, they are pretty much products of the studio's magic and are talentless on their own.
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godardian

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underrated pop music
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2003, 10:53:17 AM »
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Quote from: freakerdude


Corporate, mass produced, sugar coated music (sang by a sexy lip sync'er) made to SELL to a target audience of 16 and under is what I call pop.


Isn't that distinction completely arbitrary, though? How long has pop music existed? Since New Kids on the Block?

Weren't blues 78s their era's version of pop? Noel Coward? Kurt Weill? Were they "sugar-coated" or sung by sexy lip-syncers?

See what I mean about this kind of distinction coming from lack of perspective?
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Newtron

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underrated pop music
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2003, 10:58:24 AM »
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Note to self: Never try.

Thanks Phil for trying with me.

phil marlowe

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underrated pop music
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2003, 11:00:02 AM »
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you can't call something pop only cos it was made to sell, i don't believe that's the definition. pop was something that started out in the early sixties were the teen idol hype thing was beginning to happen and it was made to sell but it's more the structure of the melody and form that's is pop music.

it's a style that was made to be catchy but not all catchy things is pop music.

godardian

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underrated pop music
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2003, 11:01:50 AM »
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Quote from: phil marlowe
you can't call something pop only cos it was made to sell, i don't believe that's the definition. pop was something that started out in the early sixties were the teen idol hype thing was beginning to happen and it was made to sell but it's more the structure of the melody and form that's is pop music.

it's a style that was made to be catchy but not all catchy things is pop music.


This is, I think, a much better, looser, less rigid approach to what pop music is/isn't than our culture (the dominant parts, anyway) gives us.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

TheVoiceOfNick

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underrated pop music
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2003, 11:02:45 AM »
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You want a quick and dirty definition of "pop music"?  Just turn on your radio and tune to a channel owned by Viacom or Clear Channel... the music on there is pop...

Music has really gone downhill as of late... everything mainstream sucks... i've almost completely rejected anything mainstream that has come out in the last 3 years or so... I hate it... I hate it all!

godardian

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underrated pop music
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2003, 11:08:17 AM »
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Quote from: TheVoiceOfNick
You want a quick and dirty definition of "pop music"?  Just turn on your radio and tune to a channel owned by Viacom or Clear Channel... the music on there is pop...

Music has really gone downhill as of late... everything mainstream sucks... i've almost completely rejected anything mainstream that has come out in the last 3 years or so... I hate it... I hate it all!


I share your disgust at media monopolization, but I balk at surrending the very valuable term "pop music" to them.

Let's not forget that MTV- which provides most newcomers to pop music with their exposure to whatever it wishes- is also part of Viacom (I think). I hate MTV more than I hate the radio, and that's saying something. I sometimes like what they play on M2, but I'd gladly part with M2 if they'd shut MTV down.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Jeremy Blackman

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underrated pop music
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2003, 11:11:22 AM »
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Quote from: godardian
I share your disgust at media monopolization, but I balk at surrending the very valuable term "pop music" to them.


You may be holding onto an obsolete definition. "Pop music" pretty much means "top 40 and everything that sounds like it"... Maybe that's not what it should mean, but it's what it does mean (the consensus). It may be a tragedy, but many definition changes are tragic.
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godardian

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underrated pop music
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2003, 11:15:00 AM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Quote from: godardian
I share your disgust at media monopolization, but I balk at surrending the very valuable term "pop music" to them.


You may be holding onto an obsolete definition. "Pop music" pretty much means "top 40 and everything that sounds like it"... Maybe that's not what it should mean, but it's what it does mean (the consensus). It may be a tragedy, but many definition changes are tragic.


I still find, though, that the term applies to what I like. I mean, how can I not call The Smiths, Suede, girl-group pop from the 60s, The Kinks, etc, "pop music." That's just what it's called! What should I call it? Do I really have to break it down into different things, when all those disparate-sounding groups do the same thing for me, just in different ways?

I guess I don't mind being obsolete, if that's what it comes to. As you know very well, JB, the consensus isn't nearly always right!  :twisted:
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Jeremy Blackman

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underrated pop music
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2003, 02:27:46 PM »
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Quote from: godardian
I guess I don't mind being obsolete, if that's what it comes to. As you know very well, JB, the consensus isn't nearly always right!  :twisted:


From what I know of language, if people are wrong on a large enough scale, they become right. That's really the only way spellings, pronounciations, and definitions change. It's kind of bleak, really.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

Sigur Rós

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underrated pop music
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2003, 02:33:06 PM »
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Quote from: Pedro the Wombat
i agree....timberlake is fucking awesome


The artist 'timberlake' is awesome

....the person 'timberlake' is kind of queer

RegularKarate

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underrated pop music
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2003, 03:08:46 PM »
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I don't see why someone would want to have POP music mean just "music"


Christ... when I want to eat spaghetti, I say "let's have itallian food tonight"... it gives the people I'm talking to an idea of what I want.

I don't say "Let's have Chinese food", then when someone says "No, I want a cheeseburger" I go "Yeah... well that's really Chinese food"

 

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