Author Topic: Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?  (Read 5738 times)

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cine

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« on: October 19, 2003, 03:19:43 AM »
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In Idle Chatter's Masturbation thread:
Quote from: freakerdude
Quote from: bonanzataz
Me and my friend think the most brilliant masturbation scene is in Mulholland Drive. Everything getting blurry, then clear. Naomi Watts is great. First she's crying and she's so upset and trying to dull the pain of of Camilla, then she just gets angry and focused, and those last few thrusts of the hand are quite violent! It's a great great great scene.

I can't believe there was only one reference to MD. That was an important part of the movie, as I see it.

Taz, here's my take on that scene. She lost Camilla and was so hurt that she was unable to fanasize about her while masturbating. I think the ceiling fades were her trying to imagine Camilla being there, and she obviously couldn't do it. Then she gets violent with herself......

I think she was fantasizing about Camilla being in her house during the couch sex scene.......or is it obvious?


Thoughts? Comments? Discussion in his thread?

molly

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2003, 02:04:46 PM »
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MD looks to me like Crime and Punishment, just in a more fulminant way. Not that I think that's bad, or that Lynch ripped off Dostoevski.

cine

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2003, 04:12:32 PM »
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Yeah, Dostoevsky was obsessed with masturbating....

molly

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2003, 12:13:54 PM »
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Quote from: Cinephile
Yeah, Dostoevsky was obsessed with masturbating....


well, not with the masturbating, but guilt is what destroys Naomi Watts' character. She can't enjoy, and she thought she would. The masturbating scene isn't there because Lynch thought that's sexy, but to show that inability to enjoy the "victory".

pookiethecat

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Re: Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2003, 03:40:46 PM »
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Quote from: Cinephile
In Idle Chatter's Masturbation thread:
Quote from: freakerdude
Quote from: bonanzataz
Me and my friend think the most brilliant masturbation scene is in Mulholland Drive. Everything getting blurry, then clear. Naomi Watts is great. First she's crying and she's so upset and trying to dull the pain of of Camilla, then she just gets angry and focused, and those last few thrusts of the hand are quite violent! It's a great great great scene.

I can't believe there was only one reference to MD. That was an important part of the movie, as I see it.

Taz, here's my take on that scene. She lost Camilla and was so hurt that she was unable to fanasize about her while masturbating. I think the ceiling fades were her trying to imagine Camilla being there, and she obviously couldn't do it. Then she gets violent with herself......

I think she was fantasizing about Camilla being in her house during the couch sex scene.......or is it obvious?


Thoughts? Comments? Discussion in his thread?


i always felt the couch sex scene was real.  how else is it established that they were lovers then?  or was the entire romance between them in diane's head?  

i agree about the scene in which she's actually mastubrating being powerful.  it's incredibly tragic.  and i just liked the fact that david lynch had a point and he could use sex to convey that point in such a nongratuitous way.

as for molly's dostoyevsky analogy, i see more despair in diane's violent masturbating than guilt.
i wanna lick 'em.

pookiethecat

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2003, 08:23:06 PM »
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fuck you people who never respond to my brilliant posts.
i wanna lick 'em.

molly

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2003, 09:06:10 PM »
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Quote from: pookiethecat
fuck you people who never respond to my brilliant posts.


Diane's despair and suicide came out of guilt, dissapointment, ...At first, when she ordered the murder she acted out of revenge, not being able to see further than getting even, even (maybe) symbolically making her lover forever stay with her. When the thing was over, she realized that 1)she has killed a human being 2)she has killed a person that she loved and cared about 3)she has lost that person forever, she's never going to even meet her on the street.

Diane and Camilla were in a relationship, but that version in Diane's head was like a soap opera. I think that she was in love with Camilla, while Camilla was more superficial, an oportunist. Diane had more feelings for Camilla, than Camilla had for her, and that pinky version in Diane's head were just her fantasies - she fantasiezed about being loved, seduced, being the object of love. I don't know how the lesbian relationships look like, but from some films I got the idea that one side, one person is more "male" and the other more "female". In that fantasized version Camilla had more classic male role, and in real life had more female role.

molly

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2003, 02:20:10 PM »
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http://www.psychwww.com/

That's the link where you can find great stuff, and download Freud's The Interpretation of Dreams. Have fun :)

bonanzataz

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2003, 07:38:38 PM »
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Quote from: pookiethecat
fuck you people who never respond to my brilliant posts.


haha, pookie. how's it make you feel that i had an entire thread dedicated to my brilliant post?
 :kiss:
The corpses all hang headless and limp bodies with no surprises and the blood drains down like devil’s rain we’ll bathe tonight I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls Demon I am and face I peel to see your skin turned inside out, ’cause gotta have you on my wall gotta have you on my wall, ’cause I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls collect the heads of little girls and put ’em on my wall hack the heads off little girls and put ’em on my wall I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls

Gold Trumpet

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2003, 08:09:40 PM »
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Quote from: pookiethecat
fuck you people who never respond to my brilliant posts.


I kinda feel the tension here in this post. Maybe a personal moment of grief conveyed that may lead us to speculate why she posts very little now? Or: maybe its just the whole "Respect" thread and its honesty of how women feel on this board. Either way, a pretty good member has retired posting for the time being.

Damn shame.

~rougerum

freakerdude

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2003, 11:11:50 PM »
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I am just glad to hear other's input on this and other parts of MD.

Thanks Pookie, Taz, and others
MC Pee Pants

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2004, 04:26:53 AM »
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Ok I just watched this movie for first time and these are  my thoughts. Diane and Camilla never were lovers. They were never even friends. Diane came to hollywood to become an actress.  She wanted to be a great actress but failed at that. She even said that the director didn't like her. When Camilla got the role in the film Diane was very jealous. She wanted the glamour that Camila had but couldn't get. So Diane wanted to kill Camilla so she paid the hitman. Then, she sees the name Betty of the waitress. She goes home and then we start the dream. How it could have been with her becoming a famous actress. Then, Diane wakes up when the neighbor is knocking and then has another dream sequence. Then finally the guilt catches up with her.

A few things I can't sort out though. The significance of the Cowboy, the old couple (who show up in the beginning and the end when she kills herself), and the use of colors by Lynch. I noticed during certain sequences that Betty wore pink mostly and that there were many other places where pink showed up.  First time seeing it so these are my thoughts of now. I know I'm like 3 years late for seeing it.
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freakerdude

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2004, 09:23:43 PM »
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I too feel that they never even had a relationship at all. Diane fell in love in her mind with Camilla and the jealousy of a missed part in a movie was the turning point for her. She then put the hit on Camilla. The blue box opening with the key, as discussed, is an important timeline IMO.

The opener shows Diane coming out of the airport so bright and shining. These total strangers are so nice to her and then that limo scene freaks me out. But Camilla's botched murder attempt is reality, as we know. Then Diane's dream begins again. The cowboy is also a timeline IMO when he tells Diane it's time to wake up.

Diane kills herself due to guilt but Camilla survives the botched murder/crash in the end. These are just my opinions and I plan on watching it many more times. I am HOPING for a re-relase with some extras........
MC Pee Pants

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Did Masturbation 'Drive' Mulholland?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2004, 04:48:54 PM »
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Talking about the cowboy, when we first see him he tells Adam that is he does good he'll see him [the cowboy] one more time, if he does bad, he'll see him twice.

The cowboy appears two times after this - telling Betty/Diane to wake up, then passing in the background at the party in Adam's house.

Is this because Betty/Diane did bad? Maybe she imagines herself to be Adam since he is with Rita/Camilla? So she is he and she did bad by trying to have Rita/Camilla killed...?

Maybe I should stop there before my post becomes more confusing than the film itself. Gonna have to watch it again, since I've only seen it the once, but man what a fucked-up film. Loved it.

 

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