Author Topic: PTA vs Fincher  (Read 22336 times)

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ono

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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2003, 05:23:31 PM »
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Quote from: mutinyco
But he was really snobbish about Magnolia -- remember the look on his face at the Oscars when he lost the screenplay award to Alan Ball? Everybody knew Ball was going to win. But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.

That just makes me respect him more.  I know the feeling, wanting to win something badly, and not getting it.  Everyone does.  It's more genuine than to smile and applaud, though everyone expects you to be graceful.  I can imagine how much PTA must really hate American Beauty now, as Magnolia really was his magnum opus, and AB, though great in my opinion, simply dwarfs in comparison.

mutinyco

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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2003, 05:49:35 PM »
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Not really a question of which you thought was better. EVERYBODY knew Ball was going to win -- everbody it seemed except PTA.
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ElPandaRoyal

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« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2003, 05:44:04 AM »
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Since I rarely watch the awards, I really don't know what the reaction was, but I'd love to see a video of that. Personally, I'm divided, because I think Magnolia is a tremendous film, but the American Beauty screenplay was really good, BUT, if I had to choose who'd get that award, I'd choose Being John Malkovich.

As for what Paul said of Fight Club, I can only understand it because he had gone through very hard times with hisfather dying of cancer and everything. Fight Club was a very good and socially very important film and it doesn't make fun of cancer. In those scenes it makes fun of support groups, but in the end, it doesn't even matter, because Fight Club ends up talking about bigger issues than that. To me, saying it makes fun of cancer is the same as saying the movie is fascist. It isn't. It exposes us to the problems and makes us think about them. Anybody who walks out of Fight Club thinking that people dying of cancer are people to make fun of, or thinking they should start a fight you their palls are just plain stupid and in the end, that's what Fight Club makes fun of: the stupidity going on in the world.
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2003, 07:39:26 AM »
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Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Quote from: mutinyco
But he was really snobbish about Magnolia -- remember the look on his face at the Oscars when he lost the screenplay award to Alan Ball? Everybody knew Ball was going to win. But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.

That just makes me respect him more.  I know the feeling, wanting to win something badly, and not getting it.  Everyone does.  It's more genuine than to smile and applaud, though everyone expects you to be graceful.  I can imagine how much PTA must really hate American Beauty now, as Magnolia really was his magnum opus, and AB, though great in my opinion, simply dwarfs in comparison.


I saw the awards and PTA really looked dissapointed. But "Magnolia" was better than "American Beauty" in many ways and should've won for it's directing and the screenplay. I understood PTA in that moment. Who wouldn't have been dissapointed in that moment?
But did you see what he did right after Ball won? He looked into the camera which was filming him and opened his mouth totally. Why did he do this?
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cine

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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2003, 08:43:18 AM »
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Does anybody have any screenshots of this stuff?

mutinyco

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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2003, 09:53:09 AM »
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I think he was probably really insulated by people calling him a genius. I mean, Tom Cruise actively sought to be in the film. But the truth is, it DID get really mixed reviews. I wasn't then, and I'm still not a fan. I still think Magnolia is a mess. At that time the trophy for creativity was the original screenplay award -- the Academy gave that one to the film that broke new ground, but wasn't mainstream enough to win the big one. Think: The Piano, Pulp Fiction, The Crying Game, etc. (All Miramax...) But I don't think Magnolia was a feat of writing, but of performances. It wasn't CONCISE storytelling -- and that's what professional writers look for, and that's what American Beauty was. He had to have been insulated because NOBODY in the media had picked Magnolia to win the award. I was actually suprised it got nominated.
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SoNowThen

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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2003, 09:59:14 AM »
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Quote from: mutinyco
Oh, totally. Magnolia was PTA's way of dealing with cancer, in a rather personal way. So when he saw the first part of Fight Club portraying sick people without a great deal of pity, he started spouting off. He was really out there -- saying stuff like: "Fuck David Fincher!" Stuff like that. It was rather humorous I thought. But he was really snobbish about Magnolia -- remember the look on his face at the Oscars when he lost the screenplay award to Alan Ball? Everybody knew Ball was going to win. But the look on PTA's face was one of outrage.


If I wrote a brilliant masterwork like Magnolia, and I lost to a piece of monkey shit script like Ball wrote, I too would be outraged. In fact, I was fucking outraged. But PTA should not go to the Oscars anyway, it's a farce. When he lost to Goodwill Hunting for Boogie Nights, well, that could be an even bigger outrage. It disgusts me.

And he flipped about the Fincher thing, then later apologized. He was just blowing off steam, which I'm sure we've all done before.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

mutinyco

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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2003, 10:08:39 AM »
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I think the point is: when you're a public figure and a respected artist, you should be a little more careful. I'll chalk it up to youth.
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SoNowThen

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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2003, 10:17:30 AM »
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I'll agree being more careful re: the Fincher comments, but fuck it about the Oscar thing. Why shouldn't he have looked pissed off? It's an honest reaction, and a deserved one. I like the fact that he's super-proud about his movies, it shows that he cares.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

mutinyco

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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2003, 12:55:26 PM »
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It would've been fine if he was widely predicted to have won that award. He wasn't. Nobody expected PTA to win. Ball's Oscar was as sure as sure. That's why his reaction came off poorly and we're still talking about it several years later. :)
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SoNowThen

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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2003, 12:57:22 PM »
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I guess what I'm saying is: wouldn't you rather someone you consider an influence or "hero" if you wanna use that word, is a person you can count on for an honest reaction (positive or not), rather than just another plastic phony asshole?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

mutinyco

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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2003, 01:02:50 PM »
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I don't think there should have been a reaction. He should've already known he wasn't going to win. There wasn't any drama. For him to have had that violent a reaction it would've meant that he spent more time around people who told him what he wanted to hear, as opposed to listening to the industry or the press. How's this for a hero -- Kubrick never attended the Oscars for any of his nominations!
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SoNowThen

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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2003, 01:09:42 PM »
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yeah, I definitely think that's the higher route to go. Agreed.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

cine

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« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2003, 01:28:39 PM »
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Quote from: mutinyco
I don't think there should have been a reaction. He should've already known he wasn't going to win. There wasn't any drama. For him to have had that violent a reaction it would've meant that he spent more time around people who told him what he wanted to hear, as opposed to listening to the industry or the press.

Perhaps this discussion has already concluded but I want to comment on this anyhow. Why must there be so much expectation for a guy like PTA? Like Tarantino, he's one of the ones who made it. And this WAS his magnum opus. So if he gets the nod for writing, can you tell me why it was such a crime for him to, say, NOT listen to the press? To simply seclude himself from what everyone else was saying for the winners? Because honestly, how much of a waste is that? A big awards ceremony and PTA is asking people who the favourites are, who "is" going to win what, who won't be winning, etc. Takes all the fun out of it for a young filmmaker like PTA. If it was me, I wouldn't want to know if my chances were 2 to 1 or 5 to 1 or 10 to 1, etc. Because that would depress me when I'm at the awards. "Well, here I am, and I'm going to lose tonight. Let's put on a happy face." Fuck it. So one guy doesn't do it because he should've listened to the industry. I don't think that's right to assume he should go into an awards ceremony knowing what the media is thinking and what the people at home are thinking. It's a completely different ballgame for PTA this time around.

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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2003, 03:21:14 PM »
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Woody should tell PT how the awards are all farces... two geniuses that may never be properly acknowledged by their peers until long after their career is over...

 

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