Author Topic: PTA vs Fincher  (Read 21911 times)

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SoNowThen

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PTA vs Fincher
« Reply #105 on: January 20, 2004, 01:30:49 PM »
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Well, here's my take:

I don't think the movie was making fun of the fact that people are dying of cancer. It does however, make huge fun of support groups, saying we're this cry baby society, and that even Norton, who didn't have a disease, still needed this bullshit support group, because of course he has been emasculated, and can't find an outlet for all the things bubbling inside.

Also, people gotta chill out about this whole Dying From A Disease thing. Get over it. It happens. Chances are it will probably happen to either your mom, dad, you, or your spouse. It's kinda a fact of life. So why not approach it with a bit of a sense of humor? We'll all be better off that way...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ębrad

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« Reply #106 on: January 20, 2004, 01:47:31 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Also, people gotta chill out about this whole Dying From A Disease thing. Get over it. It happens. Chances are it will probably happen to either your mom, dad, you, or your spouse. It's kinda a fact of life. So why not approach it with a bit of a sense of humor? We'll all be better off that way...


i don't know about that man. first off, unless you've personally experienced a disease or someone really close to you has, your opinion on how to approach the situation is invalid. to simply say "laugh it off" when you're mother is dying of breast cancer or sumthing is an oversimplification, nevermind the fact that it's not funny. i do understand what ur trying to say, i think. well, maybe not...

molly

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« Reply #107 on: January 20, 2004, 01:53:28 PM »
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Fight Club doesn't make fun of people with cancer, if i remember correctly, it was voice-over(is this OK?) and Norton is telling his story - he is the cynic, not the director or writer.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #108 on: January 20, 2004, 02:06:10 PM »
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Quote from: ębrad
Quote from: SoNowThen
Also, people gotta chill out about this whole Dying From A Disease thing. Get over it. It happens. Chances are it will probably happen to either your mom, dad, you, or your spouse. It's kinda a fact of life. So why not approach it with a bit of a sense of humor? We'll all be better off that way...


i don't know about that man. first off, unless you've personally experienced a disease or someone really close to you has, your opinion on how to approach the situation is invalid. to simply say "laugh it off" when you're mother is dying of breast cancer or sumthing is an oversimplification, nevermind the fact that it's not funny. i do understand what ur trying to say, i think. well, maybe not...


My birth mother and grandma both died from cancer, and my grandpa had it, beat it, then died from hep c. From the two types of people who I've seen deal with it, the level headed sense-of-humor folks always fare better. That's all I meant.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ębrad

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« Reply #109 on: January 20, 2004, 02:10:15 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: ębrad
Quote from: SoNowThen
Also, people gotta chill out about this whole Dying From A Disease thing. Get over it. It happens. Chances are it will probably happen to either your mom, dad, you, or your spouse. It's kinda a fact of life. So why not approach it with a bit of a sense of humor? We'll all be better off that way...


i don't know about that man. first off, unless you've personally experienced a disease or someone really close to you has, your opinion on how to approach the situation is invalid. to simply say "laugh it off" when you're mother is dying of breast cancer or sumthing is an oversimplification, nevermind the fact that it's not funny. i do understand what ur trying to say, i think. well, maybe not...


My birth mother and grandma both died from cancer, and my grandpa had it, beat it, then died from hep c. From the two types of people who I've seen deal with it, the level headed sense-of-humor folks always fare better. That's all I meant.


okay, i get it now. i thought you meant more of a, um, well basically ur right.

analogzombie

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« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2004, 11:35:41 PM »
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Quote from: Quoyle
I think that PTA has become like QT in the sense that they can both be snobs. They're fame and success has gone to their heads and sometimes they can be snobbish and self-absorbed. As if they're saying, "Whatever I say is right and everyone else is wrong".


but the thing is: what THEY say is right, everyone else IS wrong.  8)
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ono

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« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2004, 11:40:19 PM »
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Quote from: analogzombie
Quote from: Quoyle
I think that PTA has become like QT in the sense that they can both be snobs. They're fame and success has gone to their heads and sometimes they can be snobbish and self-absorbed. As if they're saying, "Whatever I say is right and everyone else is wrong".

but the thing is: what THEY say is right, everyone else IS wrong.  8)

I can see this being true for QT, but not really as much for PTA.  He comes across as much more humble than your average director, though to be fair, who's to know if that's how he really is.

meatball

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« Reply #112 on: February 16, 2004, 02:21:19 PM »
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I don't think that the violence was intended to be entertainment in Fight Club. Fincher wasn't thinking "Okay, this is fun nonconsequential violence" was he? I don't think that's what he had in mind when he made the film. If we're going to point fingers when it comes to violence for violence's sake, point fingers at Tarantino with Kill Bill. To me, the violence WAS disturbing, the first time I saw Fight Club and now watching it again for the first time in a few years. Maybe the shockingness is no longer there if you watch it again and again as a 'fan.'

socketlevel

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« Reply #113 on: March 04, 2004, 12:52:28 PM »
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so you're saying that fincher wasn't trying to be cool with fight club?  are you fucking kidding me.  that movie's agenda is to set what is cool for people.  using brad pit and edward norton as it's conduits.  it is important to stress how everything in that movie is trying to be cool.  including the violence; the fighting part of the fight club is not motivating the characters in any way and holds no baring on the climax of the film (which is the split personality thing).  it exists to only be cool and exciting, therefore it's entertainment.

i agree with you on kill bill.  i guess that's a controdiction with me, cause i really liked that film.  i guess my only arguement is that the characters arn't intended to be three dimential in kill bill, so i guess i never took it seriously.  fight club trys so hard to be cool while at the same time appealing to the high art crowd.  sorry, i don't buy it.  there is no profound subtext in the film.  it was written in the vain of people who smoke a whole buch of weed and think they're onto something.  much like the matrix.  fincher should keep to the game or seven and leave deep subject matter to the filmmakers who actually speak messages of discourse, not create a facade of discourse covering their own complacency.

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SoNowThen

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« Reply #114 on: March 04, 2004, 12:59:05 PM »
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Wasn't addressing their own complacency kind of what FC is all about?



I don't understand this insane hardcore hate-on some people have for Fight Club...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

eward

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« Reply #115 on: March 04, 2004, 09:05:54 PM »
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part of the reason i hate it is because of how it's percieved as brilliant and how i felt so fucking cheated after seeing it, and i watched it 2 times after to try and see if i was missing anything......even if no one liked it, i would still hate it.  because it's a bad movie.  but its not bad in a charming way.  it's bad in a "smarmy" kinda way, similar to what ebeaman was sayin a few weeks ago about usual suspects.

socketlevel

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« Reply #116 on: March 07, 2004, 03:35:02 AM »
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Wasn't addressing their own complacency kind of what FC is all about?

i think that's the smoke screen.

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meatball

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« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2004, 02:18:11 PM »
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Quote from: eward
part of the reason i hate it is because of how it's percieved as brilliant and how i felt so fucking cheated after seeing it, and i watched it 2 times after to try and see if i was missing anything......even if no one liked it, i would still hate it.  because it's a bad movie.  but its not bad in a charming way.  it's bad in a "smarmy" kinda way, similar to what ebeaman was sayin a few weeks ago about usual suspects.


Aside from the amusing uselessness of Fenster, I didn't like Usual Suspects. What did ebeaman say about it being bad?

eward

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« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2004, 09:03:35 PM »
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he basicaly said it was bad in a very non-charming way, like there are some movies that are enjoyably bad becuz they dont take themselves seriously, and usual suspects takes itself very seriously, almost to the point of audience non-enjoyment.  kinda.  and another thing about it all being a set-up for a cheap ending twist and i dunno - just pure smugness in all its ugly and wink-wink nudge-nudge glory.

meatball

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« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2004, 01:41:11 PM »
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The more I watch Fight Club, the more I don't like it.

 

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