Author Topic: Bertolucci  (Read 7536 times)

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MacGuffin

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Bertolucci
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2003, 12:31:00 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Is there not any chance at all to turn profit with NC-17? Can all these marketing whiz kids not find an answer?


The large majority of theaters (art house ones too) will not book and show an NC-17 rated film and most newspapers will not advertise it either. So, yes, you can put some blame of the MPAA, but theaters share some of that blame too. The MPAA was trying to make things right by making X and NC-17 an adults only rating, but that label has always associated it with porn, even though violence might be the reason. If Fox Searchlight was truly supportive they would release it Unrated.

Also, the porn relation has to do between the difference of public theaters (privately owned) and what you do in your own home.
“Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art.” - Andy Warhol


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SoNowThen

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Bertolucci
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2003, 12:35:42 PM »
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could they release it unrated? And what would that mean (in terms of advertising, where it can show, etc)?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

MacGuffin

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Bertolucci
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2003, 12:44:26 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
could they release it unrated? And what would that mean (in terms of advertising, where it can show, etc)?


Unrated is more widely accepted. Some theaters will not book it since it hasn't gone through the MPAA, but it's up to the theaters to decide for themselves. Newspapers will advertise it too.

Here's more:
http://www.mindspring.com/~krypto/nyp070101.html
“Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art.” - Andy Warhol


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SoNowThen

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Bertolucci
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2003, 01:13:06 PM »
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Hmm, thanks Mac. Good info.


Of course everything was great until I read: "But she hopes the movie's uninhibited sex will make it a hot ticket at the box office".

Ah. So she cares a lot less about "preserving the original intent of the film", than she does about using the sex to sell it. This is why we kinda do need a ratings system of some kind. Because for every Betolucci, we have 400 hacks who just wanna put a tit in the movie so they can sell it.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Cecil

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Bertolucci
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2003, 03:35:53 PM »
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nc-17 ratings should be worn like badges of honor

"see the movie the mpaa doesnt want you to see. good luck finding it in a thaeter near you, they dont want you to see it either"

SoNowThen

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Bertolucci
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2003, 03:39:14 PM »
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Yeah, there you go.

Wanna be ad exec for my films, Cecil?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Cecil

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Bertolucci
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2003, 03:42:15 PM »
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sure, ill do it for little or no money, depending on if you can afford to pay me or not

ono

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Bertolucci
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2003, 05:45:18 PM »
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Quote from: Cecil
nc-17 ratings should be worn like badges of honor

Exactly.

Quote from: Someone, in some article,
Last year, Lions Gate trimmed a sex scene in "American Psycho" to get an R -and to get it onto 1,300 screens, where it was moderately successful.

I find it ironic as hell that American Psycho gets an NC-17 for sex, considering the amount of violence in the film.

Quote from: Someone, in some article,
Incidentally, big studios don't have the option of sending out films without a rating. The seven majors (Paramount, Universal, etc.) and their art-house affiliates (Disney's Miramax, Sony Pictures Classics, etc.) are members of the MPAA and are contractually bound to have all of their films rated.

As a matter of policy, none of them will release NC-17 films, either.

And, I don't know if anyone already pointed this out or not.  (Someone probably did.)  But this, of course, meant that Tarantino's Kill Bill had to get an R.  And it did.  Even better though was the news was that everything was intact compared to the foreign versions.

godardian

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Bertolucci
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2003, 06:00:12 PM »
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Isn't it funny how people who don't seem to be in touch even with actual public standards, let alone the views of the most devout filmgoers, have so much sway over how films are distributed, how well they do, and even the creative processs?

Fuck the major studios for being so attached to their precious MPAA memberships. Of course, the MPAA was, at one time, a sort of liberation for them, but now... time to chart a new course, guys!
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

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Bertolucci
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2003, 12:39:23 AM »
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Just watched Besieged. Damn. Fucking beautiful. I was lovin' it, thinking how much I'm gonna enjoy watching it over and over again on dvd. So the ending's a little open-ended, and I decide to check out reviews on inet, see what the critics had to say.

They all call it a racist, colonialist piece of shit. Wtf? Did they see the same movie I saw? Why are citics so threatened by stylistic flourishes? Bert' told the whole story with visuals and music. That simple. Amazing. But all these critic bastards piss all over it.

I don't get it at all. Critics are gonna tear me a new asshole when I make my films, that's for sure. I'm all about the self-conscious camera moves.

At least Jonathan Rosenbaum saw it for what it was.

I kid you not folks, if you're sick of the way tv has distored what Godard started with Breathless, with their over the top handheld and jump cutting, you gotta see it done right in this film. This is elliptical editing at its peak. I said it before and I say again, Bertolucci is a master -- A MASTER -- of the cinema. Damn.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

chinaski40

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Bertolucci
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2003, 02:40:59 PM »
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there's too big of a jump between 'R' and 'NC-17'; they should have an 'R' rating, as they do for movies that should only be seen by older kids with their parents and then have an 'A' or something for adult films, but we need to destinguish NC-17 from porn and just good adult films.  I know I stated the obvious and might have been said before, but there's my two cent anyway...

Cecil

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Bertolucci
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2003, 03:23:05 PM »
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your idea makes too much sense and is too fair, that is why it will never happen

ono

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Bertolucci
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2003, 03:36:51 PM »
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NC-17 was supposed to be a rating to classify legitimate adult fare that wasn't porn, but unfortunately, most people wrongly saw it as a replacement for the self-applied "X," which it wasn't, and that's where the confusion comes in.  The NC-17 as it is now is basically a meaningless symbol of censorship.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2003, 06:30:40 PM »
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so I saw Last Tango In Paris last night. I'm fucking blown away. I loved it. I ran out and got it on dvd after work. I'd like to show you all this quote, that seemed improvised by Brando, and was like an open wound, just festering with truth. It's naked and ballsy, and romantic all at the same time:

"You want this man to protect you and take care of you. You want this golden, shining, powerful warrior to build a fortress where you can hide in, where you don't ever have -- you don't have to be afraid, or you don't have to feel  lonely, you never have to feel empty. That's what you want, isn't it? Well, then it won't be long until he'll want you to build a fortress for him out of your tits, and out of your cunt, and out of your hair, and your smile, and the way you smell, and... and someplace where he can feel comfortable enough and secure enough so that he can worship in front of the altar of his own prick."


Fucking hell, that cut right to it. Bertolucci just entered my top ten fav directors list. Damn! Now I'm insane to see his new one...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

eward

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Bertolucci
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2003, 10:14:56 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
so I saw Last Tango In Paris last night. I'm fucking blown away. I loved it. I ran out and got it on dvd after work. I'd like to show you all this quote, that seemed improvised by Brando, and was like an open wound, just festering with truth. It's naked and ballsy, and romantic all at the same time:

"You want this man to protect you and take care of you. You want this golden, shining, powerful warrior to build a fortress where you can hide in, where you don't ever have -- you don't have to be afraid, or you don't have to feel  lonely, you never have to feel empty. That's what you want, isn't it? Well, then it won't be long until he'll want you to build a fortress for him out of your tits, and out of your cunt, and out of your hair, and your smile, and the way you smell, and... and someplace where he can feel comfortable enough and secure enough so that he can worship in front of the altar of his own prick."


Fucking hell, that cut right to it. Bertolucci just entered my top ten fav directors list. Damn! Now I'm insane to see his new one...


i absolutely fucking loved that film.
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