Author Topic: Kill Bill: Volume Two  (Read 86600 times)

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ElPandaRoyal

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« Reply #630 on: May 11, 2004, 01:06:31 PM »
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Yeah, we should start a thread about this, but 'till someone does so, I have to ask something I don't understand at all... why do you say that Fargo's good if you hate it? Just because most of us say it's great?
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SHAFTR

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« Reply #631 on: May 11, 2004, 01:10:07 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Yeah, a new thread should be started for this.

But yeah, what Sleuth said...



For instance: I hate Fargo, but I know it's a good movie. I love Island Of Dr Moreau, but know it's a bad movie.

How's that for a jumping point?

And I know everyone will want to ask "so what makes a movie good or bad?" And to that, I say...

P will take it from here.

 :-D

Seriously though, is that sorta where you were coming from too, P?


I think maybe P's statement might be that you can see why a movie may great but not like it.  I can understand why people think Blue Velvet is a great film, but I hate it.
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SoNowThen

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« Reply #632 on: May 11, 2004, 01:11:43 PM »
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Quote from: ElPandaRoyal
Yeah, we should start a thread about this, but 'till someone does so, I have to ask something I don't understand at all... why do you say that Fargo's good if you hate it? Just because most of us say it's great?


Technically admirable, great acting, interesting characters, some hilarious scenes, generally interesting set-up and environment.

After watching it, felt my time was wasted, and really got no enjoyment out of it. But I can't put it down on any grounds other than it didn't please me.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ElPandaRoyal

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« Reply #633 on: May 11, 2004, 01:50:23 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: ElPandaRoyal
Yeah, we should start a thread about this, but 'till someone does so, I have to ask something I don't understand at all... why do you say that Fargo's good if you hate it? Just because most of us say it's great?


Technically admirable, great acting, interesting characters, some hilarious scenes, generally interesting set-up and environment.

After watching it, felt my time was wasted, and really got no enjoyment out of it. But I can't put it down on any grounds other than it didn't please me.


Hhhhmmmm..... it's just a matter of opinion, I think. I can't look at a movie like that. If I feel like my time is wasted, I don't like the movie at all. Just like what happened to me with Cold Mountain  :?
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NEON MERCURY

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« Reply #634 on: May 11, 2004, 10:03:17 PM »
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Quote from: SHAFTR
 I can understand why people think Blue Velvet is a great film, but I hate it.


....... :(




how could you hate a film w/ a poster this wickedddddddddddd?

but i do agree that  you can hate any film but it does show smarts to realize  what a great film is despite your dislike for it......

Pubrick

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« Reply #635 on: May 12, 2004, 01:36:11 AM »
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my statement about good movies was specifically directed to ppl who defend Kill Bill as "the greatest film of all time". i said modernage had the right approach to the movie, and he concluded that it was OK. it's not the best QT movie ever.

so if i am to argue about how Sleuth can like this movie, what i really need to address (what what i was saying from the beginning) is ppl who think this movie is BRILLIANT are kidding themselves.

if u refer to my review, i noted the parts i liked, they were enuff to make it OK. but in terms of forgettable shit, this film had plenty of it. all the extended scenes, the lack of momentum, these terms aren't relative they are what really happened.

bill's death is the only redeeming factor, it is like the embodiment of the whole film. it takes five steps which are only for show, u know how the final step will end and each prior step is just a big pointless gesture. how can anyone defend it as entertainment, when it fails in that department too. the first film volume had plenty of fighting but nothing worth watching again, experts in the genre Kibble was ripping off (we hav a few here) will tell u, the second one is even less exciting in that department.

to recap.. where is the overpraise coming from? that was my question which still no one has answered in this whole thread. this is being overpraised worse than Lost in Translation, it fails as entertainment and that itself is the best defense ppl can come up with ("remember it's not sposed to be as good as his other movies" wtf??) who was the freak who said that The Bride and Bill were the best characters ever made? that is the most ridiculous statement, i would like to see a defense for that, but i won't ask for one to save our time, it is ridiculous.

why are ppl afraid to acknowledge this as just an OK movie? (by default because it isn't BAD). and some of u who love it, u say u didn't like Pulp Fiction? jesus christ, that movie is almost perfect, ur critical value system is completely without basis.
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LostEraser

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« Reply #636 on: May 12, 2004, 04:00:34 AM »
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Quote from: Pubrick
to recap.. where is the overpraise coming from? that was my question which still no one has answered in this whole thread..


I wouldn't even know how to begin to answer that question since I don't think I'm over praising the film. I'm simply being honest with how it affected me.  

Quote from: Pubrick also
who was the freak who said that The Bride and Bill were the best characters ever made?


That was me, your old pal.  :wink: But I didn't say they were the most brilliant characters ever. I said I felt they were Tarantino's most well written characters ever. But, really, all I meant was that I felt more connected to them as real people than I have with any other Tarantino characters. This film just really moved me and I was merely telling you all about it. I'm not a critic (i'm not even very articulate sometimes). I'm just some one who really loves watching movies and loves to tell people about the ones that really affected him. I don't go into a movie with a checklist to mark off to see how perfect the film is going to be. I just go to enjoy myself. And if one of them stirs up some really deep and moving emotions in me. Emotions that I felt the film was trying to stir up in me to begin with, and therefore, succeded at. Then that is enough of a defense for me to say that it was a great movie. I really love both Beatrix and Bill. I've never loved any other Tarantino characters before. They are wonferfully written characters in a wonderful film, in my opinion.
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ElPandaRoyal

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« Reply #637 on: May 12, 2004, 06:08:11 AM »
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Quote from: Pubrick
so if i am to argue about how Sleuth can like this movie, what i really need to address (what what i was saying from the beginning) is ppl who think this movie is BRILLIANT are kidding themselves.
....

if u refer to my review, i noted the parts i liked, they were enuff to make it OK. but in terms of forgettable shit, this film had plenty of it. all the extended scenes, the lack of momentum, these terms aren't relative they are what really happened.
....

why are ppl afraid to acknowledge this as just an OK movie? (by default because it isn't BAD). and some of u who love it, u say u didn't like Pulp Fiction? jesus christ, that movie is almost perfect, ur critical value system is completely without basis.


It's aaaaall about opinion. You tell me an extended scene you think is shit, I'll probably tell you I liked it and why. And there is not a single film ever made about which you can have a common opinion. Some like it, some love it, some don't, some think it's OK.

Oh, and who are the dead ones who criticize Pulp Fiction?  :wink:
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El Duderino

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« Reply #638 on: May 12, 2004, 01:36:28 PM »
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i've seen the movie 4 times (too many, i know) and every time i watch it, i see something new, whether it be a flaw or something i just missed the first time. A good example of that would be [SPOLIERS] when Budd and that other guy are digging B's grave, there's a open couffin with a shrivelled body inside [/SPOLIERS].

This movie is not Tarantino's best work, but it's not his worst either. the movie wasn't breathtaking the first time i saw it or any other time. Uma Thurman and David Carradine both gave great performances, probably the best of both their carreers. and like someone said earlier, when the credits came up and it said "Written and Directed by Quentin Tarantino" i realized that i'm growing up on this guy. some people say Robert Altman or Godard, but maybe it was the fact that this movie, aswell as volume one, was my first QT-in-the-theatre experience. i give the movie a B.
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Mesh

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« Reply #639 on: May 12, 2004, 03:35:13 PM »
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Quote from: Pubrick
bill's death is the only redeeming factor, it is like the embodiment of the whole film. it takes five steps which are only for show, u know how the final step will end and each prior step is just a big pointless gesture. how can anyone defend it as entertainment, when it fails in that department too.


Boy, this is so wrong, it's shocking.

B's burial scene (that claustrophobic, interminable, harrowing darkness) was spellbinding, confusing, and scary as hell and it heightens every proceeding scene's tension (up until she crawls back out). Exactly the kind of "entertainment" I enter the theatre hoping to see and I'd have paid my $9 for that scene alone (not that about a dozen others weren't a joy to watch....there were plenty).

edit:  btw, I think Kill Bill, taken as a whole, is Tarantino's least important and entertaining film.  But, again, that's not saying much because he's held up to his own exceedingly high standards.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #640 on: May 12, 2004, 03:37:55 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
B's burial scene (that claustrophobic, interminable, harrowing darkness) was spellbinding, confusing, and scary as hell and it heightens every proceeding scene's tension (up until she crawls back out).


How?

A. You've seen it before in The Vanishing.

B. You know she's gonna get out. There's still 3/4 of movie left.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Mesh

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« Reply #641 on: May 12, 2004, 03:46:05 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: Mesh
B's burial scene (that claustrophobic, interminable, harrowing darkness) was spellbinding, confusing, and scary as hell and it heightens every proceeding scene's tension (up until she crawls back out).


How?

A. You've seen it before in The Vanishing.

B. You know she's gonna get out. There's still 3/4 of movie left.


A. I've never seen The Vanishing.  Not all humans have.  Either way, it was a great "buried alive" sequence.

B. Tarantino is famous for messing with linear filmic narrative.  It's not utterly inconceivable that the burial could have been happening at the end of the narrative (in fact, I suspected as much as I was watching).  I couldn't think of a way for her to get out, so I tried to figure out what QT was up to and that's what I came up with.  I was wrong.  It was great to be wrong in this case.

brockly

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« Reply #642 on: May 12, 2004, 05:53:39 PM »
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vanishing spoilers

Quote from: SoNowThen
You've seen it before in The Vanishing.


what really made the KB burried alive scene so intense and terrifying was when B was inside the coffin with nothing else to do but listen to Budd hammering in the nails, the sound of her coffin being dragged along the dirt, lowered into the grave and the layers of dirt pounding against the roof.

the vanishing is very different. he wakes up inside a coffin after being drugged. that was really scary and shocking (the slow rotating shot from inside the coffin was badass) but it wasn't anywhere near as nail bitting as the process of Budd burrying a helpless B alive, in my opinion.

also, the black and white shot inside the coffin in KB was ace.

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« Reply #643 on: May 12, 2004, 07:24:44 PM »
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Quote from: Pubrick
but in terms of forgettable shit, this film had plenty of it. all the extended scenes, the lack of momentum, these terms aren't relative they are what really happened.

bill's death is the only redeeming factor, it is like the embodiment of the whole film. it takes five steps which are only for show, u know how the final step will end and each prior step is just a big pointless gesture. how can anyone defend it as entertainment, when it fails in that department too.


ouch baby, very ouch

Jeremy Blackman

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« Reply #644 on: May 17, 2004, 09:00:07 PM »
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I finally saw the movie, and it was very good, but... it just felt totally and completely wrong. The two halves were never meant to be separated. As much as I want to give Syd Field the finger and say 2-act structure works, Volume 2 seems absolutely detached and feels (but isn't) unecessary. All the pacing problems would have been solved with one big movie. I would have loved a 4-hour Kill Bill.
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