Author Topic: Kill Bill: Volume Two  (Read 84645 times)

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SoNowThen

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Kill Bill: Volume Two
« Reply #540 on: April 23, 2004, 12:25:37 PM »
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Well, I didn't like 2, but definitely not for the same reasons as you guys. I was willing to embrace this film as style-as-substance (which I think is a perfectly valid way of filmmaking -- if plot/story can be narrative, why can't form alone be narrative?). My major problem was that it felt like QT got cold feet near the end and felt the need to have some sort of rational motivator with the whole mother-daughter thing. I don't mind getting expectations subverted, but ripping me off with no final big fight scene is going too far, imo.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ono

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« Reply #541 on: April 23, 2004, 12:26:38 PM »
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The most depressing thing is, I agree with what The Disco Kid said, because it's true (well, only half-true for me so far).  One of the most original voices in cinema, one with the most potential, seems to have fizzled out and sold out, with only Pulp Fiction (and some elements of Jackie Brown) to show for it.  I still haven't seen Vol. 2 yet, but if 1 is any indication, this may continue.  I hope other original voices (like the Andersons) don't follow the same path, and I'm still hoping for the best of Vol. 2 when I finally do see it next weekend.

analogzombie

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Kill Bill: Volume Two
« Reply #542 on: April 23, 2004, 12:33:04 PM »
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I just don't see many of your points at all. Sure it wasn't the same type of movie as Vol 1, and I'll agree that the dialogue was the weakest Tarantino has ever been. But to say he has fizzled out with only Pulp Fiction to show for it.... I mean a bad Tarantino film is still a glorious movie compared to what else is out there. Even at his worst, so far, he is a great filmmaker. SOme of his choices may not always play out as well as possible, like any filmmaker, but most times they do. If Vol 2 suffered from anything it would be a hit or miss effect when involving the audience. Some of the dialogue and scenes were pushed so far for emotion that, to me, that went over the edge and drew me out of the film. And as far as the ending goes, problems there might have something to do with what Quentin said on Charlie Rose last night. He said that he didn't edit the final Bill and Bride confrontation sequence until he had already cut the rest fo the movie. his idea was that emotionally, he would know how to complete the scene based on the journey the rest of the film had led you on.
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ProgWRX

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Kill Bill: Volume Two
« Reply #543 on: April 23, 2004, 12:36:28 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
My major problem was that it felt like QT got cold feet near the end and felt the need to have some sort of rational motivator with the whole mother-daughter thing. I don't mind getting expectations subverted, but ripping me off with no final big fight scene is going too far, imo.


to me, QT getting cold feet would've been doing a completely predictable huge epic fight between bill and beatrix... i found it REAL ballsy that the last showdown between this two was more of a mental/emotional "duel" rather than just another fight scene...
 :?
-Carlos

SoNowThen

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« Reply #544 on: April 23, 2004, 12:41:22 PM »
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It would have been "ballsy" to cut to black and have the last ten minutes play out only as text on screen, but that wouldn't have made it good or satisfying in any way. QT's touch has always been to subvert genres and expectations, cook 'em up in one big pot, yet ALWAYS satisfy in the most surprising way. Which is why I said before that I was jealous of those for which it worked. For me it didn't.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ProgWRX

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« Reply #545 on: April 23, 2004, 12:51:37 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
QT's touch has always been to subvert genres and expectations, cook 'em up in one big pot, yet ALWAYS satisfy in the most surprising way. Which is why I said before that I was jealous of those for which it worked. For me it didn't.


well i guess i understand your jelousy, because what i put in bold from your post is exactly the reason why i think he totally nailed it with the anti climactic ending rather than a huge epic battle... and i did leave more than satisfied specially in the sense that i felt i understood their relationship much better and even felt for bill in the end...  :?
-Carlos

SoNowThen

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« Reply #546 on: April 23, 2004, 01:05:36 PM »
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An extremely interesting take on Kill Bill, copied from another message board:

"You're probably sick of hearing about KILL BILL by now, but I have a take on it that seems stunningly obvious to me, but that I haven't seen echoed in any of the reviews. Mainly that it's all a metaphor for what divorce does to a family.

"I understand Quentin was raised by his single parent mother, and though I don't know the details of his childhood, a lot of what it seemed he was saying in KB resonated with me, being a child of divorce myself.

"You have a family, in this case the DiVAS. Bill is the dad, of course, and in this case the Bride is the mom. Vernita Green, O'Ren Ishii, Budd, and Elle Driver each represent a different way that kids deal with divorce.

"The act of Bill killing the Bride is, in his own words, 'masochistic.' This wasn't an idle dialogue choice, rather it underscores the fact that Bill is doing this because he loves her, and because he's unable to handle it in some way.

"The Bride clearly loves Bill, even when she's sitting opposite him at that table just before their final confrontation, and one can sense genuine affection between them. They may have to kill each other, they may feel the need to destroy each other, but that not only doesn't mean they don't love each other; it stems from the fact that they love each other, and that the love is unhealthy.

"Bill is trying to kill the Bride who has fractured his family, and each of the kids is dealing with it in a different way. O'Ren Ishii is the classic overachiever, blocking out the trauma by throwing herself into her work. Vernita Green tries to recreate the idyllic family she's lost by starting over with her own husband and child. Budd blames everyone, most of all himself, and retreats into guilt and self-loathing. Elle Driver is the child who tries to gain favor with one parent by attacking the other.

"Maybe I'm just projecting, but for whatever reason, the movie really seemed to be more than just a 'mix tape' or a simple revenge flick. If you do see it again, perhaps this little angle will help you see it with fresh eyes, and enjoy the experience a little more." -- Joseph McDonald Houston, Texas.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ProgWRX

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« Reply #547 on: April 23, 2004, 01:12:36 PM »
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definately an interesting take... i am fortunate enough to have both my parents still together, so i really didnt relate in that way, but this take is quite interesting...
-Carlos

ono

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« Reply #548 on: April 23, 2004, 04:02:38 PM »
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Quote from: analogzombie
I mean a bad Tarantino film is still a glorious movie compared to what else is out there. Even at his worst, so far, he is a great filmmaker.

You obviously never saw the episode of Jimmy Kimmel Live he directed.

Redlum

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« Reply #549 on: April 23, 2004, 06:59:08 PM »
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"The death of originality" - Thats about as over the top as the film's themselves. The film is an arena for coolness - enjoy it!
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The Disco Kid

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Kill Bill: Volume Two
« Reply #550 on: April 23, 2004, 07:52:44 PM »
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Quote
"The death of originality" - Thats about as over the top as the film's themselves.


Yeah, I guess I sorta lost it there for a second. Hollywood is just overflowing with great, original movies. We're Living in another cinematic Golden Age---What the hell was I thinking?

Top ten movies in America:
1. Kill Bill Vol 2
2. The Punisher
3. Johnson Family Vacation
4. Hellboy
5. Home on the Range
6. Scooby Doo 2
7. Walking Tall
8. Elle Enchanted
9. The Alamo
10. The Passion of The Christ

Behold the Coolness!...ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

Tictacbk

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« Reply #551 on: April 23, 2004, 11:42:08 PM »
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ahhh breathe in the sarcasm....





just because we aren't living in a golden age of cinema doesn't mean originality is dead.  Tarantino made a movie he wanted to make with references to other movies that he liked and it was fucking cool.  Inhale the coolness and exhale the sarcasm.

Pubrick

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Kill Bill: Volume Two
« Reply #552 on: April 24, 2004, 05:56:17 AM »
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once again like in the eternal sunshine thread, can sumone (ono cos he's good at it) tell me what pages i should read in this piece of crap.

or tell me if this is the general consensus..

1. the first one was ok, nothing spectacular
2. the second one was better with the dialogue and cos uma used her face more than her body.
3. overall it was an empty experience, most of what made up the films were what is usually cut by the director who considers the AUDIENCE's reactions and not his own.

i mean, this isn't an introspective work, it's a piece of entertainment and it doesn't really succeed as that. so much is forgettable i dont' think i'll ever watch these things again. it didn't even hurt that modernage spoiled the whole thing in his avatar, what with uma reuniting with the girl and all that.. well it did a little cos that might have been the great redeeming (sentimental) factor. so whatever.

oh, good points.
-carradine's death
-uma's face (her attempt at expressing a character, not just her hotness)
endless 'nothing is what it seems'-isms

cron

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« Reply #553 on: April 24, 2004, 05:59:49 AM »
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Quote from: Pubrick
once again like in the eternal sunshine thread, can sumone (ono cos he's good at it) tell me what pages i should read in this piece of crap.

or tell me if this is the general consensus..

1. the first one was ok, nothing spectacular
2. the second one was better with the dialogue and cos uma used her face more than her body.
3. overall it was an empty experience, most of what made up the films were what is usually cut by the director who considers the AUDIENCE's reactions and not his own.

i mean, this isn't an introspective work, it's a piece of entertainment and it doesn't really succeed as that. so much is forgettable i dont' think i'll ever watch these things again. it didn't even hurt that modernage spoiled the whole thing in his avatar, what with uma reuniting with the girl and all that.. well it did a little cos that might have been the great redeeming (sentimental) factor. so whatever.

oh, good points.
-carradine's death
-uma's face (her attempt at expressing a character, not just her hotness)



read SNT's post above, which has a transcript from another forum  and possibly the most interesting commentary i've heard on kill bill. it isn't necessarily intelligent, though.

ghostboy's review is on page 32, taz's is on 33. nix posted something cool at 29 and GT's is at 31.
context, context, context.

modage

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Kill Bill: Volume Two
« Reply #554 on: April 24, 2004, 09:11:56 AM »
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mine's on 28.  and its long.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

 

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