Author Topic: Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick  (Read 24846 times)

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Gold Trumpet

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2003, 12:18:18 PM »
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You know what, if you want to buy that argument cbr that since they are professionals and would know more than me on a subject, then why don't we close all topics of discussion and instead search for things said on every possible subject to the movies by different various directors. I admire both directors, but they are wrong in this situation.

When I say more freedom, I mean Kubrick should have been much more up for bringing up the environment than just relying it on the shooting of the sniper. Kubrick's camera work is stiff in this sequence, which doesn't bold very well for bringing in a threatening reality when it only reminds me of the problems of the older movies that really did buy into the Eisenstein theories of how to shoot a movie. Also, the movie only tries to add smoke to the environment to make it have a feeling of an ominous or threating one. Apocalyse Now was the ultimate in creating an atmosphere that seemed ready for anything to happen. Kubrick, on the other hand, directs with such a focus on shooting every single thing in one way that the idea that anything can happen may be gone. You may be watching more for the formulas to play out than anything else. But see, I love Full Metal Jacket and its anti narrative approach to the subject, but thing is, at the end, the movies does decide to make it a realistic look to the horrors of war and it just felt like Kubrick couldn't bring up the feeling to match the idea. Relying only on a trick shot of a sniper shooting didn't work, but maybe if there were more feeling and ideas placed within the scene, it could have been good.

~rougerum

ębrad

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2003, 07:58:29 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I admire both directors, but they are wrong in this situation.


~rougerum


Look bud, you can say/think whatever you want, you just make sure you preface it with "in my opinion."

Gold Trumpet

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2003, 02:24:31 PM »
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nah. Everything I say is my opinion anyways so why state the obvious.

~rougerum

phil marlowe

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2003, 03:12:20 PM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
nah. Everything I say is my opinion anyways so why state the obvious.

~rougerum


I agree. There are little reason to all that IMO "crap"( i really don't mean "crap" but in lack of a better word i use it) in such cases. If a post isn't the product of ones opinion, then i don't know what. But i have to say, when everybody else allways state the "in my opinion" thing, then you may sound a little too confident.

Cecil

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2003, 03:36:00 PM »
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you dont even need to put "in my opinion," which i agree comes off as too confident, just:

I admire both directors, but i think they are wrong in this situation.

ębrad

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2003, 05:26:20 AM »
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I definitely get the "Golden Trumpet knows all" vibe when you make blatantly arrogant comments like "they are both wrong in this situation."

Gold Trumpet

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2003, 06:27:40 AM »
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thats fine

~rougerum

Jeremy Blackman

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2003, 08:53:55 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Relying only on a trick shot of a sniper shooting didn't work, but maybe if there were more feeling and ideas placed within the scene, it could have been good.


That scene is beautiful for its simplicity, and I think it's the best scene in the movie. Its coldness makes it perfect. The fact that the soldiers don't cry for the soldier that has just been shot, but instantly run in for revenge, is what makes the scene what it is. A deeply emotional scene at that point would have destroyed the "atmosphere" that you keep talking about. Do you really think heavy conventional emotion would have worked with that scene? It works only because these are emotionless people who have nothing but instinct left.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

Gold Trumpet

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2003, 04:12:56 PM »
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No, no no about it being about emotionless people who have nothing left but instinct. That's not the point at all, the point is to show of how hard it is for someone to kill someone and with the sniper scene, face the threat of being killed. Kubrick alluded to this point many times within interviews of how hard it was to kill someone. It is bringing the ant narrative feeling to a point of final feeling, where all the talk and bullshit of what everyone will do in war is gone, and now the reality is set upon them through trying to deal with a sniper. My feeling is that I never felt the threat of the sniper nor the feeling of them being in danger. I would have preffered a heightened atmosphere for accomplishing that, and with the evidence that they started to use smoke to set the scene of danger (classic Kurosawa trademark), it was obvious that they were going for that. My meaning is that the rest of the movie does have the coldness of anti humanity because these kids have never really been tested with the horrors of war, that is, until the very end. But a point must be said, in that Animal Mother is already gone and to an emotionless state. The hero, Joker, obviously isn't.

And stop attributing my demands to correcting a scene as making them "convential" following with emotion or some other detail of a movie.

~rougerum

ębrad

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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2003, 07:27:26 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
No, no no about it being about emotionless people who have nothing left but instinct.
~rougerum


I agree with JB. You see this is exactly what I think the main theme of Full Metal Jacket is. GT, you are entitled to your opinions and you can post whatever you want, but this "I'm right you're wrong" shit is childish and it makes it hard for me to take any of your posts seriously. They come off as frustrated ranting of a stubborn film know-it-all. I'm just surprised how you can't see this, if you are the somewhat intelligent person I think you are, I think you could be a bit more mature, i.e. "Ok Jeremy, you think that, but I think it's totally different." Is that so hard? I mean, how do you know exactly what FMJ is about? There's no one answer. Films are open to interpretation. Kubrick's intentions could be quite different than what I or anyone else gets from the film. I mean, this is film analysis 101 folks!

Gold Trumpet

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2003, 09:44:11 AM »
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I'll try to be nicer as i disagree with everything. Also, this could be room for you to stop insulting people. I remember Duck Sauce yelling at you for that and examples of it all over the board.

~rougerum

Jeremy Blackman

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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2003, 11:41:40 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
No, no no about it being about emotionless people who have nothing left but instinct. That's not the point at all


What about "the stare"? What about standing over the dead body? It was the final act in their dehumanization.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2003, 12:18:22 PM »
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You are right, when that point comes, it is the final process of dehumanization. But, the points leading up to that point should not be of a dehumanizing tone. It should be of a more realistic threat that is filmed like there is danger to these kids. The stare at the deady body after Joker's killing is what the realistic threat should accomplish, but thing is, I didn't buy it that it was much of a threat and would have liked a bigger built up scene because the movie feels like it just ends. Gene Siskel complained that the only problem with the movie is that he would have liked more and I agree, because I don't think the movie really accomplishes that final irony of how killing someone makes you into this or that. I think the introduction of the sniper scene is badly handled and also the threat of the sniper scene itself too. I would have wanted more of a feeling that though the movie did have these themes, that the sniper scene would have more a point of destination then just being thrown in there.

~rougerum

ębrad

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2003, 12:51:33 PM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I'll try to be nicer as i disagree with everything. Also, this could be room for you to stop insulting people. I remember Duck Sauce yelling at you for that and examples of it all over the board.

~rougerum


If Duck Sauce were to yell at me for anything it would probably just make me do it more. I don't really remember insulting anyone seriously, I'm sure it was done in a humorous manner, and if it was perceived in a different way, my bad.

Jeremy Blackman

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Full Metal Jacket and the limitations of Kubrick
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2003, 01:53:49 PM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
You are right, when that point comes, it is the final process of dehumanization. But, the points leading up to that point should not be of a dehumanizing tone. It should be of a more realistic threat that is filmed like there is danger to these kids.


But doesn't the distant tone help us know what they are (or aren't) feeling? I would think much less of the movie if Kubrick showed us an emotional battle scene, Jerry Bruckheimer-style. As for your desire to see a "realistic threat"... don't you think if the soldiers had viewed the threat more realisticly, they wouldn't have run in one by one, killing themselves? When you try to apply convention to Kubrick again and again, it just doesn't work.

Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I don't think the movie really accomplishes that final irony of how killing someone makes you into this or that.


Someone takes a Kubrick comment and (because he says so little about what his movies really "mean") applies it with too much ego, saying "this is supposed to be about this, but it does that, so I don't like it." The greatest artists in the world have surprised themselves, and I think it's a mistake to dwell on that one intention. And I think dwelling on that last scene as the meaning of the movie itself is a little too narrowly focused... it was just the last phase... obviously they had accomplished a lot in dehumanizaing themselves in boot camp, and that scene is just one part of it, the final act, and then they can sing the mickey mouse song with a clear conscience.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

 

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