Author Topic: Whoops! - Marty's Oscar campaign  (Read 18494 times)

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SoNowThen

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Whoops! - Marty's Oscar campaign
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2003, 09:49:43 AM »
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Tremosloth and Arnzilla, you are my friends. Thank you for supporting Saint Martin in my absence.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

chainsmoking insomniac

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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2003, 10:02:31 AM »
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I'll back you up any day of the week on ol' Marty dude.
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote: 'The world's a fine place, and worth fighting for.'  I agree with the second part."
     --Morgan Freeman, Se7en

"Have you ever fucking seen that...? Ever seen a mistake in nature?  Have you ever seen an animal make a mistake?"
  --Paul Schneider, All the Real Girls

SoNowThen

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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2003, 10:07:24 AM »
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Sweet.

Luv the new av, btw.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

chainsmoking insomniac

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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2003, 10:10:14 AM »
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Thank you kindly.
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote: 'The world's a fine place, and worth fighting for.'  I agree with the second part."
     --Morgan Freeman, Se7en

"Have you ever fucking seen that...? Ever seen a mistake in nature?  Have you ever seen an animal make a mistake?"
  --Paul Schneider, All the Real Girls

mutinyco

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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2003, 10:44:48 AM »
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I would consider an "unspecified number" to mean quite a few. This whole thing wouldn't have made such a racket if it were 1 or 2. I heard it was roughly 400 or more. That's serious. Pierson couldn't be more specific because it's supposed to be secret ballot. Just by saying X-number of people wanted their ballots back would've revealed how many votes Gangs had received. Also, if Marty had won, it would've thrown massive questions of legitamacy over the win. People weren't voting for Marty because they thought Gangs was great, they were voting to give him a career Oscar. Miramax knew that. That was their campaign angle. I've never seen a film with 10 nominations so reviled in Hollywood. And Arnzilla's LA Times link doesn't portray things good for Gangs in the slightest. As for Goldman, he is correct, just as he was in his dismissal of Saving Private Ryan a few years ago. What he did wasn't disgraceful, but ballsy. And as for Ebert, he wrote this:

"All of this is a triumph for Scorsese, and yet I do not think this film is in the first rank of his masterpieces. It is very good but not great. I wrote recently of "GoodFellas" that "the film has the headlong momentum of a storyteller who knows he has a good one to share." I didn't feel that here. Scorsese's films usually leap joyfully onto the screen, the work of a master in command of his craft. Here there seems more struggle, more weight to overcome, more darkness. It is a story that Scorsese has filmed without entirely internalizing."

He was a goddamn yo-yo on this one. After he reviewed it Miramax gave him shit so he started backtracking. Miramax is like the mafia. And against poor critical support and a poor CinemaScore poll, they hyped it into a masterpiece.

Take off your rose-tinted Scorsese goggles and watch the film for what it is. Even people I know who've seen the 2001 cut say that, although it was MUCH better that the final version, it still lacked dramatic momentum and didn't really work.
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SoNowThen

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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2003, 10:52:22 AM »
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Take off your black goggles and see the film for what it really was. I know people who saw it in the theatre and loved it.


See how that works? Back and forth, back and forth. Why not just drop it and let us praise Marty in peace. I don't come over to the Spielberg thread and bitch about him, even though to me he symbolizes everything that's shit about movies. I'm just asking you to have some class. You are not really impressing us with your insider knowledge. If I went by what Hollywood taste told me, I would have a pretty dull opinion indeed. Please, I'm asking nicely. Just let it go.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

chainsmoking insomniac

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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2003, 10:54:58 AM »
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mutinyco, there is no point in arguing a topic like this, because it's all opinion.  Gangs of New York was one of Marty's best in years.  A masterful epic with fascinating historical context.  Beautifully shot, lavish and stunning sets, etc.  
Now convince me otherwise.  :roll:
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote: 'The world's a fine place, and worth fighting for.'  I agree with the second part."
     --Morgan Freeman, Se7en

"Have you ever fucking seen that...? Ever seen a mistake in nature?  Have you ever seen an animal make a mistake?"
  --Paul Schneider, All the Real Girls

mutinyco

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« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2003, 10:59:00 AM »
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>Now convince me otherwise<

Just watch the movie... :)
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

SoNowThen

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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2003, 11:01:37 AM »
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Just did last night.
Love it. Love it . Love it.
Played the soundtrack this morn. Wonderful. All still running through my head. DDL = incredible.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

chainsmoking insomniac

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Re: ...
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2003, 11:08:20 AM »
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Quote from: mutinyco
>Now convince me otherwise<

Just watch the movie... :)


*Checks his watch*
Still waiting.... :wink:
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote: 'The world's a fine place, and worth fighting for.'  I agree with the second part."
     --Morgan Freeman, Se7en

"Have you ever fucking seen that...? Ever seen a mistake in nature?  Have you ever seen an animal make a mistake?"
  --Paul Schneider, All the Real Girls

mutinyco

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« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2003, 12:29:58 PM »
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"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

SoNowThen

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« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2003, 12:45:55 PM »
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"Paul Thomas Andersonís talent isnít in question. One day he will make a great film. I donít think he has yet." -- mutinyco --

Seriously, I don't even know you, and I actually hate you. And what you wrote in your article about Gangs, it was the first choice: The Other Critics saw a different movie than you. Plain and simple. And Flawed Masterpiece is a title that should be applied to many great movies, as it is impossible to make a "Perfect" film. Apocalypse Now is a great example of this. A wonderful film, I personally love it, but Flawed Materpiece is a solid description.

I am overcome by rage at your ridiculous statements.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

mutinyco

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« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2003, 12:59:52 PM »
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I actually thought what I said about PTA was a compliment. I was underrating him. Thom Yorke said the best compliment he received with regard to OK Computer was that it was an excellent album, but not the best thing Radiohead will ever make.

As for "flawed masterpiece," I would gasp at horror for Gangs of New York to be equated on any level with Apocalypse Now...
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

SoNowThen

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« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2003, 01:02:42 PM »
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I am happy at having made you gasp.


MAGNOLIA is a fucking great film. BOOGIE NIGHTS is a great film. You have insulted PTA.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

mutinyco

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« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2003, 01:23:07 PM »
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Hardly. I'm being brutally honest. If all you ever do is praise somebody they won't learn. You need to be hard on people. Don't expect to be an artist or a filmmaker if you can't deal with that.

The worst thing that ever happened to Scorsese was that people started calling him the greatest American filmmaker. Because if you look at his post-Goodfellas films he believed it. And his films haven't been as good since. The critics weren't critical enough anymore. Simply because his name was on these films they were already in a higher position of esteem, instead of being taken for what they were.

What I was saying about PTA is that he's extremely talented, his films are conceptually and technically audacious, and that one day he'll make a great film. Just that he hasn't yet.

Just as Marty's most complete and assured work was probably Goodfellas. That happened nearly 20 years into his career.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

 

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