Author Topic: The Aviator  (Read 55158 times)

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SoNowThen

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The Aviator
« Reply #135 on: June 07, 2004, 08:50:51 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Beginning with Goodfellas, I felt Scorsese was branding his stories into move conventional story terms of Hollywood structure and with Casino - the implemation of a high tech opening sequence and more stars - Scorsese's "typical' became something else. Both films are a world's away from Mean Streets.


*sigh*

Why is it that the public must curse great artists into trying to repeat themselves forever? Isn't that a good thing that his later films are different than Mean Streets, seeing as how he has become a different person with evolved sensibilities?



Oh... and he IS the greatest American director.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

mutinyco

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« Reply #136 on: June 07, 2004, 09:23:58 AM »
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Quote from: Arnzilla
mutinyco, is that your warm way of inviting me into the other forums? Do I get cab fare home, too?


Cab fare? Ha! Take a subway!
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Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #137 on: June 07, 2004, 05:31:40 PM »
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Quote from: mutinyco
The problem with Marty's later films is that they are tackling "ideas" -- they just don't work dramatically. It's not because he's making Hollywood films. They're only Hollywood in their production values. It's because the films he started with simply didn't prepare him for epics. Someone labled the "greatest living director" CANNOT, egotistically speaking, go on making small crime flicks. Otherwise, that title would probably disappear.


I sitll don't believe in the genuineness and interestability of how Scorsese is "tackling' ideas. With as commercial as his films have been, the same logo of artistic integrity and search for the profound could be also be said of a film like Cold Moutain. Scorsese is an excellent filmmaker, but a gun for hire these days. And, the "greatest living director" does not have to prove his worth by increasing his budget. Only Hollywood folk believe that. Ingmar Bergman never gave into the appeal of Hollywood even though he did push forward with his filmmaking art. Yes, two different directors, but it is yet another example of the shallowness that plagues modern modern American cinema.

Quote from: SoNowThen
*sigh*

Why is it that the public must curse great artists into trying to repeat themselves forever? Isn't that a good thing that his later films are different than Mean Streets, seeing as how he has become a different person with evolved sensibilities?


That doesn't even come close to my arguments against Scorsese.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #138 on: June 08, 2004, 01:14:47 PM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I sitll don't believe in the genuineness and interestability of how Scorsese is "tackling' ideas. With as commercial as his films have been, the same logo of artistic integrity and search for the profound could be also be said of a film like Cold Moutain.


That's YOUR problem, not Scorsese's. By what mystical tool do you subjectively measure "genuine" tackling of ideas? At least Mutinyco's arguments are from a fellow who can see the scope of Marty's work and (unfortunately) not connect with it. Your wild misinterpretations and half-cooked meanderings are of your own invention. If you honestly believe that Cold Mountain shows as much integrity and profundity of any of the later works from Age Of Innocence on, well, we're speaking two totally different cinematic languages, to be sure.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Gold Trumpet

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« Reply #139 on: June 08, 2004, 01:19:25 PM »
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Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I sitll don't believe in the genuineness and interestability of how Scorsese is "tackling' ideas. With as commercial as his films have been, the same logo of artistic integrity and search for the profound could be also be said of a film like Cold Moutain.


That's YOUR problem, not Scorsese's. By what mystical tool do you subjectively measure "genuine" tackling of ideas? At least Mutinyco's arguments are from a fellow who can see the scope of Marty's work and (unfortunately) not connect with it. Your wild misinterpretations and half-cooked meanderings are of your own invention. If you honestly believe that Cold Mountain shows as much integrity and profundity of any of the later works from Age Of Innocence on, well, we're speaking two totally different cinematic languages, to be sure.


Thank you for no argument. You just accuse me of blubbering mistakes and what not.

SoNowThen

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« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2004, 01:49:25 PM »
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'kay, fine, let's have it all real discussion and everything.

I need to know where you stand, concretely:

Are there any MS movies you love?
Which ones do you hate?
Do you consider him an important and praise-worthy director?
Please state clearly what we are arguing (is it that Marty has "lost it", has "sold out", or did you just never liked him in the first place).

Cite examples from movies, interviews, and even (this is just for you, GT) critical writing.

WHAT'S YER BEEF WITH MARTY -- Chapter 1

Go.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

eward

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« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2004, 05:55:06 PM »
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oooh this'll be good

Arnzilla

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« Reply #142 on: June 09, 2004, 05:11:36 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Scorsese is an excellent filmmaker, but a gun for hire these days.

"These days" are just a repeat of those days. In every decade that he's been a professional filmmaker, Scorsese has been "hired" for projects that have had a major star already attached: Burstyn for Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Newman for The Color of Money, De Niro for Cape Fear, and now DiCaprio for The Aviator.

mutinyco

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« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2004, 09:22:54 AM »
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Your new avatar is like The Stepford Pfeiffer.
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MacGuffin

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« Reply #144 on: August 13, 2004, 08:26:13 PM »
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From Entertainment Weekly:

Before he was famous for being a reclusive germaphobe -- or, in Logan's words, "the old man in Las Vegas with long fingernails and shoe boxes on his feet watching Ice Station Zebra as his Mormon aides put codeine in his arms" -- Howard Hughes was famous for being a few other things: movie mogul, Hollywood lady-killer, and above all, pioneering aviator. Scorsese's reported $100 million epic, starring DiCaprio as the eccentric entrepreneur, focuses on the 20-year period when America's first billionaire revolutionized the business of air travel. "The film presents a Howard Hughes not really known," says Scorsese, who was recruited to the project by his Gangs of New York star DiCaprio. The actor developed the film with Logan and helmer Michael Mann, but the latter begged off due to burnout after The Insider and Ali. Scorsese came aboard despite a fear of flying. "But the more anything upsets me," he says, "the more I want to learn about it."

The Aviator does deal with the Hollywood Hughes, too. Scorsese, noted for his encyclopedic knowledge of movies, says he got some cineast kicks out of restaging scenes from Hell's Angels, one of the two films Hughes is credited with directing. The film also chronicles romances with Katherine Hepburn (Blanchett), who the film argues was the love of his life, and Ava Gardner (Beckinsale), with whom, the film suggests, Hughes was sexually obsessed. "He was attracted to large-breasted women, and she had the biggest pair around," says Beckinsale. Meanwhile, Logan and Scorsese both say they went to great lengths to present sensitively and seriously the mental illness that would ultimately define Hughes' image -- his terror-stricken interface with the world. "Like washing his hands. How he deals with a doorknob. How his people bring him lunch," says Scorsese. "The details entrench him in a kind of madness that he can't move out of."

Since wrapping last November, Scorsese has been working to whittle the film to about two hours and 40 minutes. Miramax and Warner Bros. will jointly distribute The Aviator, and producer Graham King says all is well between Scorsese and Miramax's Harvey Weinstein, who publicly clashed over the running time of Gangs. "The difference is night and day," says King, who adds that no one in the Aviator camp dares utter the O-word. "But wouldn't it be great if this could be the one for Marty?"

Dec. 17
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modage

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« Reply #145 on: August 13, 2004, 11:43:52 PM »
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100 million dollars for a 3 hour biopic?!?  goddamn, scorsese needs to get his budgets under control because this will probably lose a lot of money.  but who gives a shit if he keeps tricking people into giving him lots of money.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

eward

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« Reply #146 on: August 14, 2004, 08:54:02 AM »
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good for him

Derek

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« Reply #147 on: August 21, 2004, 12:43:35 PM »
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The trailer here:

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=trailer&id=1808411951&intl=us

It's been out for awhile, the trailer kind ofmakes me think of a cross between Citizen Kane and Tucker: A Man and His Dreams.
It's like, how much more black could this be? And the answer is none. None more black.

MacGuffin

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« Reply #148 on: August 21, 2004, 01:06:19 PM »
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Quote from: Derek
It's been out for awhile


And on Page 8 for that same amount of time.
“Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art.” - Andy Warhol


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Finn

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« Reply #149 on: August 26, 2004, 07:24:59 AM »
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aww get a load of this...

http://www.impawards.com/2004/aviator.html

LOL! Not one of the better Scorsese posters :wink:
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